Gun Dog Forum

Hi, I have this GR I took in. He's nearly 3, before here he's been kept in a 4 foot fenced back yard. He's 85 lbs and a big GR. He can EASILY scale that 4 foot fence which he did and roamed around loving on all of the neighbors and messing with their stuff. He's never been leash/collar trained. He's been let run loose in a back yard which he had gotten used to getting out of. Hence, his need to been rehomed.
He's a very affectionate GR like they all are. He's not neutered.
I have successfully managed to keep him kenneled in a 6' 10x10 chain link kennel.
I've gotten a collar on him and can leash him and we can walk short distances. And even when I say 'house', I've conditioned him to where he will jet in that pen and in that house easily, get a treat. All's good.
Problem is on mornings like this morning, when HE makes the decisions HE won't go back up then HE is deteremined HE will NOT cooperate with ANYTHING> I think he must have smelled a hot girl or something because he completely pulled outta the collar (I've tightened it as much as I can) and ran away, not far, but he wants HIS way. I didn't have a treat in my pocket, that might have helped. But he was really bad. He's done the same thing with my son (I wasn't here). He usually is very obedient with me.
Ok, I'm not one to reprimand or drag or beat on animals, but this behavior is not good. He's calling the shots because of his sheer size and abilities.
so, I had to physically pick him up in the wet grass and carry this 85 lb dog back to the kennel. No treats of course.
He's that determined to get out and do what he wants. I'm happy to have him in this one kennel. I had a cheaper crate at one point in the garage. He actually pushed the wire apart on that cheap crate on the bottom and got out. Met me when the garage door opened.
On one kennel I had, it was cheaper Petsmart wire, but still...he literally pushed the wire apart like the Hulk and busted out.
This dog has been CONDITIONED to escape. He likes it. It gets him attention.
I KNOW that he'll run right through an underground fence.
I sit in the middle of 18 acres, so I want to just let him roam about. He really doesn't go that far, but if he gets a scent, he'll be gone, and maybe end up in trouble or in the road. Like all GR, he doesn't know a stranger.
I don't want to get rid of the dog, he's really sweet and my family likes him.
Neutering would help..but may not fix it all, and it'd take months for that to take affect.
What's your thoughts on obedience? I'm struggling to fix someone else's bad dog fathering habits.
Maybe I'm being too nice?
Maybe he needs sedation?
A harness to walk? Shorter more controlled walks?
He's clearly becoming the Alpha dog.
I'm open to suggestions, all except bringing him in the house. That ain't happening.
Thanks,
Mark

You're correct; he's becoming an Alpha...to a point. It's only because that's the role he's been placed in, largely due to a lack of structure. None of them are born knowing human rules, and no one has taught them to this guy, so he just does what comes next.

What needs to happen for him is a comprehensive course in fundamental obedience. But more, once those primary commands are thoroughly taught, they need to be formalized. Being a large, mature dog, you won't get away with all-passive measures. That's a good way to start the teaching, but it can't stop there. Pet Smart-style obedience classes WILL NOT SUFFICE in this case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO7zJpCsKQc&feature=plcp

Follow a proven method for working retrievers.

EvanG

Agree 100% with Evan. The dog is becoming an Alpha because that's how dogs survive in the absence of appropriate leadership otherwise.

Also - Escape/avoidance learning is very powerful and difficult to overcome. Escape artists need absolute consistency and absolute security in their environment. They can have zero hope of escaping again, ever. No cheap crates or kennels.

Lastly, a tired, engaged dog has little need to escape. Give him something he never wants to leave...

Good luck, and good for you for taking on this project.

Here is some info that may help you with your new Golden. If you use obedience training that is FIRM, FAIR and FUN you will be suprised how quickly he will turn around. To firm of a hand and you will see how quickly he will turn off from training.

http://leerburg.com/groundwork.htm

http://www.k9deb.com/nilif.htm

http://www.cowdogz.com/tips/alpha.html

First and formost get a smaller collar. I get dogs in all the time that have colllars that are big enough to slip out. Properly fitting collars can save a dogs life. And as stated once they know they can get out they will try until they succeed. You must reconvince this dog that he can not slip that collar. I feed in the kennel EVERY SINGLE TIME the dog goes back in when training a return to kennel. With your situation the dog would also have treats when training and feeding in kennel and no other food.

I would work hard to be sure the dog can not escape from leash or kennel and then I would focus hard come/here ON leash with full control. Build this game as almost auto response for him before moving to much else. I would definatly ecollar condition this dog eventually but building trust and undrrstanding first will serve you well.

http://codeazur.com.br/pix/blogs/CultureClash.pdf This book should be very helpful and free as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTkYvn1HjrI Ian Dunbar is a phd in animal behavior he wrote the forward for this book. Spend some time researching and you will be able to train this dog with some effort. If you are not willing to spend the time, give the dog to some one who is. There is no silver bullet just time spent.

4dabirds wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTkYvn1HjrI Ian Dunbar is a phd in animal behavior he wrote the forward for this book.

Good luck with that for an 85 pound, 3 year-old Golden! Or you might go for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yi71ODod7g&feature=plcp

EvanG

Thanks for the replies guys.
I went to the Petsmart and got a Martingdale no slip collar.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... Id=2751399
Brought it home, put it on him, went for a leash walk..he took one lunge away from me and went HUH?? It was sorta funny..he looked back at me like WHAT?? He pulled his head down, torqued around just a minute than calmed down and was quite a different animal there on out. Walked pretty obediently to my right.
One time he just sat down and wouldn't move. It was a pissing contest between he and I.
I just stood there a minute and looked off, with some tension on the leash.
I took a treat out of my pocket and he hopped up and came on and for the rest of the time he was great.
I say 'lets get in the house' and he's bolted right into his house.
So, I think maybe I caught this NEW escaping through the collar thing quick enough that maybe not too much damage was done. Thing is that I KNOW he never had a collar on..so he never knew he COULD get out of it until he got here and I put one on. Then, he figured out when he wanted, he could easily wiggle around and get out of it.
So, in his mind...he just levelled up in a game.
We'll see.
I also got info on taking an obedience course, basic, at that petsmart. The guy I've been working with, kennel, collar, etc there is one of the trainers. He seems to know his stuff. He's actually the one who put me in this Martingdale collar.
Also got some Pet Eze tabs to maybe notch him down a little. dunno, worth a try for 4 bucks.
Thanks for all the suggestions and support here.
I feel better that at least we're at a starting place now.
Mark

Took him to a park today and that went pretty good. He abides by that collar pretty easily now. It'll be good to get him socialized more.
Biggest problem now is getting him to get IN the back seat of the truck. I have to hoist his 85 lb body, which I can, but really...hoping soon he'll get conditioned enough to realize it's a good thing to go with me.
Trying to make the trip fun, so he'll WANT to get in the truck.