Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

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BigK75
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Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:34 pm

Hey Guys,

Need some help. I asked a similar question but slightly different a few months but I am at a loss at what to do and need help. I love my dog but every time I take him to the woods in Ontario I come back back super frustrated. My dog will not check in on me and its starting to really irritate me. Every time I am out I play hide and seek with him and unless I call him in he doesn't care where I am. He runs like crazy and is often 300 yards away going in the wrong direction. When I ecollar him he will come back and his recall is good especially after I sent him to a trainer for two weeks. His inability to come checkin is starting to take away joy of taking him for walks in the forest as I constantly have to look at my GPS to see where he is going. Today I let him go to see if he would come back but at 370 yards I finally had enough and ecollared him back to me. I want him ranging 100 yards max since we are in Ontario. This dog is incapable of doing that and what's worse he will never check in. I would be cool with a dog that went our 200 yards in front of me if he came and checked in but like I said he is often running in the wrong direction. I am at the point of giving up on him. This means residing that I will never hunt with him or take him to the forest. Its not worth my sanity. He is also 1 year 1 months old. He is so awesome at some many things like recall and heeling and I am constantly getting compliments when I take him for walks but his inability to check in and range closer has me pretty depressed.

Thanks,

BigK75

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:28 pm

You are not hunting together. Maybe with more field time, he will figure out that he needs you if he is going to get his mouth on the bird.

My experience is that dogs can learn a distance pretty well. If everything else about the dog is good, or at least promising, get him a GPS and stop him when he goes past whatever distance you have decided you want. He will learn that as a boundary if you are consistent about it.

Teach the dog a signal for "wait" and use that. You don't necessarily want him to turn and come back to you, you just don't want him to get too far ahead of you. It's easy with a check cord, but you can't use a check cord at 200 yards. Figure out some way to signal him that means "wait". teach the signal at home. Transfer the lesson to the field. If he ignores that signal and keeps going, you can always zap him to remind him.

Dogs don't necessarily do things automatically. You have to figure out how to communicate to him what you want.

When he get way out there by himself is he hitting a point and holding it until you get there? If he is hunting wide and holding for you, its not all bad.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by shags » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:08 pm

Think about what you've been doing. You corrected the dog when he was at 370 yards. By doing that you told him that 370yds is his limit, then he gets zapped. So he figures he's doing fine until he gets to 370.

If you want him closer, correct him at *your* limit so he knows that's as far as he's allowed to go.

As mentioned above, training a whoa or wait command can allow you to catch up.

As far as checking in, do you mean you want him to come all the way back to you then go all the way back out? What purpose does that serve if you have a good whoa or wait command, or a good recall? Just wondering; in my venues that's called yoyo-ing and is not desirable at all.

I hope it works out for you. When you get frustrated keep in mind that the day will come in 11-12 years that you'd give a front tooth to see your pal range like that again.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by oldbeek » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:06 am

Like Shags said, call him in at the yardage you want him to work. He is still a pup. He will learn what you want.

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Dakotazeb
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by Dakotazeb » Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:58 am

How old is this Brittany?
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by slistoe » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:37 pm

You say you play hide and seek with him but my interpretation of what you wrote is that you have never been "lost". So you have never played hide and seek with him. Hide and seek does not work at the point when we think the dog is lost, but rather when the dog thinks that he is lost. I have learned a long time ago that dogs are much better at keeping track of where we are then we are at keeping track of where they are. So, when we have lost track of where the dog is and are considering him lost, the dog is still quite happy to do what he is doing because he is still very aware of where we are. He is not in the least bit lost in his mind - he knows where we are and he knows that if he needs to/wants to get there he can without any problems at all because he is fast and we are very, very slow. You have the GPS so if you have the space you could go out and play the hide and seek game with him for real. Get a comfortable seat and be prepared to sit him out. Be sure to move a good space away from the last place where the two of you were together because that will be his default to try to find you when he finally realizes that he doesn't have a location on you anymore. Make it tougher for him to find you. Dogs do not like to be lost and they will range as long as they are confident that they will be able to return to you - that confidence is a great trait to have in a working field dog, but what your training task is now will be to break down and destroy that confidence.

Secondly you say his recall is good, but then you say he won't come in till you "ecollar" him. That suggests to me that his recall is only partially taught - that it is not really good. Since you are using the collar as a training aid, be sure the dog wears it all the time, everywhere you go out. And use it - till the dog absolutely believes that there is not place and no circumstance where the recall is optional.

The last point I will address is about going the wrong way. Staying to the front is a very important trait that is heavily selected for in AllAge Horseback breeding but is largely ignored in many other venues. Delmar Smith addresses the issue of patterning in his book. If you take the time to teach a pattern with your ecollar, a check cord and a cue in open areas, then when the dog has assimilated the behavior into his natural pattern you can use the cue and collar to extend the learning when entering into the woods - you will know with your GPS when the dog is breaking his pattern and can cue him to find the front and follow up with the collar. Training this will also help greatly with the "check in" problem you say you are having since if the dog is to run a front pattern he will need to be more closely attuned to where you are and where you are going to comply with that cue.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by slistoe » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:37 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:58 am
How old is this Brittany?
He says just over a year.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by Steve007 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:43 pm

All this is quite sensible, however I note that you sent your dog to a trainer for two weeks. Depending on what you are looking for, most people will tell you that two weeks is not enough to get long-lasting results. Presuming the trainer had credentials and was competent, it might be worth a follow-up phone call and a discussion. Might be the easiest way to get the results you seek would be a longer stay with the trainer.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by kninebirddog » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:22 pm

I have a question for you
what was this puppy like when you first got pup. bold independent very investigative? As you took pup out did you ever help control pup or have you always allowed puppy to run and do its own thing and now that its older your wanting control now?

just trying to put some missing pieces of the puzzle together to be able to hopefully help give you a more informed answer
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by MNTonester » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:06 pm

what Steve said. had my dog twice to a trainer for some refresher work and the trainer was quite open to me staying in touch with questions

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:55 pm

oregon woodsmoke wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:28 pm
You are not hunting together. Maybe with more field time, he will figure out that he needs you if he is going to get his mouth on the bird.

My experience is that dogs can learn a distance pretty well. If everything else about the dog is good, or at least promising, get him a GPS and stop him when he goes past whatever distance you have decided you want. He will learn that as a boundary if you are consistent about it.

Teach the dog a signal for "wait" and use that. You don't necessarily want him to turn and come back to you, you just don't want him to get too far ahead of you. It's easy with a check cord, but you can't use a check cord at 200 yards. Figure out some way to signal him that means "wait". teach the signal at home. Transfer the lesson to the field. If he ignores that signal and keeps going, you can always zap him to remind him.

Dogs don't necessarily do things automatically. You have to figure out how to communicate to him what you want.

When he get way out there by himself is he hitting a point and holding it until you get there? If he is hunting wide and holding for you, its not all bad.
I have been really following your advice. Not letting him go past 80 yards or so but once in a while it happens that he gets out to 120 or so because he so dam fast and sometimes I don't see him. I have also been using the Whoa command to stop him so that I can catch up to him.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:57 pm

shags wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:08 pm
Think about what you've been doing. You corrected the dog when he was at 370 yards. By doing that you told him that 370yds is his limit, then he gets zapped. So he figures he's doing fine until he gets to 370.

If you want him closer, correct him at *your* limit so he knows that's as far as he's allowed to go.

As mentioned above, training a whoa or wait command can allow you to catch up.

As far as checking in, do you mean you want him to come all the way back to you then go all the way back out? What purpose does that serve if you have a good whoa or wait command, or a good recall? Just wondering; in my venues that's called yoyo-ing and is not desirable at all.

I hope it works out for you. When you get frustrated keep in mind that the day will come in 11-12 years that you'd give a front tooth to see your pal range like that again.
Clarifying question for. So when he gets to 80 I should call him and if he doesn't then ecollar him. Is that right?

You are totally right about the 11-12 years thing. I love my little guy. He just frustrates me so much some times :)
Last edited by BigK75 on Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:00 pm

kninebirddog wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:22 pm
I have a question for you
what was this puppy like when you first got pup. bold independent very investigative? As you took pup out did you ever help control pup or have you always allowed puppy to run and do its own thing and now that its older your wanting control now?

just trying to put some missing pieces of the puzzle together to be able to hopefully help give you a more informed answer
He was bold and independent right from the start. I would say I tried to control it somewhat but maybe not enough. This the first dog I have ever owned so I am really an expert.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by shags » Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:24 am

Clarifying question for. So when he gets to 80 I should call him and if he doesn't then ecollar him. Is that right?

I wouldn't call him back in, because a recall means coming all the way back to you, and that's a waste of time and energy if he's supposed ro be hunting. You want your dog to hunt in front of you. You don't want to recall him then allow him to not come all the way in; you will regret that later.

I would use a turn command; when he gets to the limit of your desired distance, it's
"Dog's Name, Hup!" Or "Ho!" or "this way" or whatever you decide on...as you turn at about 90* left or right.

If this is new to him, drill in the open where he can see you and get the idea of what you want. You can start with a long check cord then overlay the ecollar. When he gets it in the open, move to cover.

Correct ignored commands with a nick on the ecollar. Sorry, when you say "ecollar him" it makes me think you mean fry his furry butt.

I know some guys don't like loud verbal commands in the field, so if you have a beep or vibrate option on your collar you can overlay that also if you prefer.

A naturally big ranging dog will have a harder time keeping himself in check, so you must be patient. It can be frustrating. Be happy that he has some go and that you aren't stuck trying to push him to range out more. Over time he'll figure it out.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by slistoe » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:03 am

shags wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:24 am
Clarifying question for. So when he gets to 80 I should call him and if he doesn't then ecollar him. Is that right?

I wouldn't call him back in, because a recall means coming all the way back to you, and that's a waste of time and energy if he's supposed ro be hunting. You want your dog to hunt in front of you. You don't want to recall him then allow him to not come all the way in; you will regret that later.

I would use a turn command; when he gets to the limit of your desired distance, it's
"Dog's Name, Hup!" Or "Ho!" or "this way" or whatever you decide on...as you turn at about 90* left or right.

If this is new to him, drill in the open where he can see you and get the idea of what you want. You can start with a long check cord then overlay the ecollar. When he gets it in the open, move to cover.

Correct ignored commands with a nick on the ecollar. Sorry, when you say "ecollar him" it makes me think you mean fry his furry butt.

I know some guys don't like loud verbal commands in the field, so if you have a beep or vibrate option on your collar you can overlay that also if you prefer.

A naturally big ranging dog will have a harder time keeping himself in check, so you must be patient. It can be frustrating. Be happy that he has some go and that you aren't stuck trying to push him to range out more. Over time he'll figure it out.
Follow this advice. Don't be too anxious to get this working in the woods. Teach the pattern with the check cord in an open area. Overlay the collar. Once you think he knows what you want and is responding very well you aren't done. Teach it again in a new location. Repeat in varying locations. Then take your dog to the woods. This is the patterning I referenced and is talked about in Delmar Smith's book.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by kninebirddog » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:12 pm

BigK75 wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:00 pm
kninebirddog wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:22 pm
I have a question for you
what was this puppy like when you first got pup. bold independent very investigative? As you took pup out did you ever help control pup or have you always allowed puppy to run and do its own thing and now that its older your wanting control now?

just trying to put some missing pieces of the puzzle together to be able to hopefully help give you a more informed answer
He was bold and independent right from the start. I would say I tried to control it somewhat but maybe not enough. This the first dog I have ever owned so I am really an expert.
And this is why I do not send bold independent pups to beginning owners.

If you can the best suggestion I can give you is seek a Rick and Ronnie Smith seminar. It will be very worth your investment to having a foundation with hands on learning to help you get a new beginning to rebuild on and make new repetition's to become hopeful new habits.
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"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:43 pm

kninebirddog wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:12 pm
BigK75 wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:00 pm
kninebirddog wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:22 pm
I have a question for you
what was this puppy like when you first got pup. bold independent very investigative? As you took pup out did you ever help control pup or have you always allowed puppy to run and do its own thing and now that its older your wanting control now?

just trying to put some missing pieces of the puzzle together to be able to hopefully help give you a more informed answer
He was bold and independent right from the start. I would say I tried to control it somewhat but maybe not enough. This the first dog I have ever owned so I am really an expert.
And this is why I do not send bold independent pups to beginning owners.

If you can the best suggestion I can give you is seek a Rick and Ronnie Smith seminar. It will be very worth your investment to having a foundation with hands on learning to help you get a new beginning to rebuild on and make new repetition's to become hopeful new habits.
Sure I agree with you but it was the beginning of COVID and we had 40 minutes to pick a pup.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by Sharon » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:51 pm

LOL Absolutely true isn't it? Covid affects everything. When pups get to be a year old , they are going to be wondering about strangers' faces with no masks. :)

Keep following the good advice you've been given. Could be much worse; you could have a dog always hovers behind your back- I'm not kidding.
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:57 pm

shags wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:24 am
Clarifying question for. So when he gets to 80 I should call him and if he doesn't then ecollar him. Is that right?

I wouldn't call him back in, because a recall means coming all the way back to you, and that's a waste of time and energy if he's supposed ro be hunting. You want your dog to hunt in front of you. You don't want to recall him then allow him to not come all the way in; you will regret that later.

I would use a turn command; when he gets to the limit of your desired distance, it's
"Dog's Name, Hup!" Or "Ho!" or "this way" or whatever you decide on...as you turn at about 90* left or right.

If this is new to him, drill in the open where he can see you and get the idea of what you want. You can start with a long check cord then overlay the ecollar. When he gets it in the open, move to cover.

Correct ignored commands with a nick on the ecollar. Sorry, when you say "ecollar him" it makes me think you mean fry his furry butt.

I know some guys don't like loud verbal commands in the field, so if you have a beep or vibrate option on your collar you can overlay that also if you prefer.

A naturally big ranging dog will have a harder time keeping himself in check, so you must be patient. It can be frustrating. Be happy that he has some go and that you aren't stuck trying to push him to range out more. Over time he'll figure it out.
I am going to be honest with you. When I say ecollar him I gave three chances.
1) I give the tone on my ecollar. This often works but if he is past 100 yards this rarely works. He can go 100 yards in about 3 seconds or so.
2) Low - medium stimulation. This almost always works if he is less than a 100 yards but almost never works when he is past 100 yards AND I can't see him and he can't see me. For some reason 1 and 2 work if its open sight.
3) I fry his little butt if doesn't respond to 1 and 2. This causes him to yelp and he will often ignore this as well.

I have honestly given up on him. Today was the worst he has been yet. I had to utilize option 3 numerous times to get him to come back often ecollaring him 4-5 times on high before he finally decided to come back. I have just come to realize that some dogs are children. Sometimes you have an awesome kid who requires minimal effort and sometimes you have tough kid and no matter what you do they are going to what they want to do. I have quit trying after today. I love and hate my dog at the same time. I got lucky with my child and she is awesome. My dog another hand is unmanageable unless I can see him all the time. I am not sure why it matters that I can see him and he can see me but it does. When I take him to a large open area with shrubs he is fine. I take him to the forest disaster. He got lost twice today as well. When I got to the open area I often get stopped people tell me how awesome my dog is. I got to forest and he goes pyscho.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by Sharon » Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:39 pm

Oh, I hate to see you give up, but understand your frustration.

If he were my dog, I would start over, assuming he doesn't know the "come " command.

Long check cord, call come, he doesn't come, so I reel him in - then graduate to so e collar stimulation when you know he knows " come " - only ONCE at a level high enough to work. No warning stimulations. Don't confuse him with "whoa" or "come".

No forests until he comes when called. Many dogs have a hard time finding the owner in a forest. They want to come but can't find you.

I'm no expert but this is what I would do.
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by shags » Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:58 pm

What Sharon says. That is great advice.

Don't nag the dog. That teaches him to ignore you. One command, and enforce it. Don't climb up the ladder with the ecollar stimulation. Find the lowest level he responds to and use that. Don't fry him just because *you* are angry or upset. Keep your ownself upbeat and calm...would you like to be called in to see the boss if you thought he was majorly po'ed with you?

Stay out of the woods until you have a super duper handle on the dog in the open. Otherwise you're setting yourself and the dog up for failure.

Once you have more confidence in the dog, and he in you, move to cover.

Use your voice to recall him in cover, so he can gauge where you are. The tone doesn't help him to locate you, but your voice will. Eventually, when he's an older more experienced dog, you might try the tone again.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:47 pm

I know what you guys are saying but he does understand the come command, he understands the sit, heel, whoa commands as well. I will take a video and post it. He just chooses to ignore it once his nose is down in the forest. I take him for 45 minutes a day every single day rain or shine, +20 or -20 and I work on come each and every single time. He has gone John at Uplander Kennels (Sharon will know who this is I think) for two weeks of training on only the come command. He knows the command he just doesn't care and chooses to ignore the ecollar regardless of whether it hurts him or not. 90% of the walks are in Snyder's Flats Conservation Area (you can google to see how wide open it is) and we work on this constantly. I am so upset about this I had 5 drinks since the morning. I love him and he is my best buddy but I am losing faith in him.

When you guys say one command and then enforce do you mean call him and if he doesn't come then immediately call him again and use stimulation? Also I should have said I call him/whistle and use tone at the same time. Then I do low to medium stimulation and call him again (using voice/whistle) if that doesn't work and then finally call/whistle/high stimulation.

I have scheduled in to be neutered. Maybe that will will help a little. Not sure if it will or not. My friend seems to think it will.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by Sharon » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:11 pm

"When you guys say one command and then enforce do you mean call him and if he doesn't come then immediately call him again and use stimulation? Also I should have said I call him/whistle and use tone at the same time. Then I do low to medium stimulation and call him again (using voice/whistle) if that doesn't work and then finally call/whistle/high stimulation." quote BigK75

.............................................................

Now we are getting to it. Too many commands imo. The dog is confused.
You call him. He doesn't come. (Make sure he's not on point . Start in that field where you can see him , not the forest.) You use the level of stimulation he needs to come ( high as you need ) and that's it. No whistle , no tone , no continuous calling (once loud).
He still doesn't come? Raise he stimulation level. Don't call again. If he still ignores the command... were pooched.

Please let us know if neutering helps; we are all here to learn.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by slistoe » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:35 pm

So you went back to the open fields/woods and repeated the same thing as always and somehow expected a different result. Then you are upset because the outcome was the same. Save the trip to the woods/fields next time and just get upset. No need to leave the house if you are simply going to repeat the same thing over and over expecting something different.

You say the dog knows come - but he doesn't. You have taught him that come is optional (dogs only learn what we teach them).

You have been given solid, proven advice on here on how to remediate the situation you have created, but from the follow up posts it seems they fell on deaf ears.

There is nothing wrong with your dog. You have a hunting dog that has been blessed with the desire to hunt. Not everyone who sets out to buy a hunting dog is so lucky.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by slistoe » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:38 pm

BigK75 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:47 pm
When you guys say one command and then enforce do you mean call him and if he doesn't come then immediately call him again and use stimulation?
Ummm..... one command is different than two.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:55 pm

Sharon wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:11 pm
Now we are getting to it. Too many commands imo. The dog is confused.
You call him. He doesn't come. (Make sure he's not on point . Start in that field where you can see him , not the forest.) You use the level of stimulation he needs to come ( high as you need ) and that's it. No whistle , no tone , no continuous calling (once loud).
He still doesn't come? Raise he stimulation level. Don't call again. If he still ignores the command... were pooched.

Please let us know if neutering helps; we are all here to learn.
Hey Sharon,

Thanks for the advice.

I am comp sci guy so I need things broken down into exact steps so I have a recipe to follow :) I will stick to the open field for the next couple of months. So if I am understanding this right this is what I need to do:
1. Call verbally with enough stimulation to get him to come
2. If he ignores that raise stimulation but don't call him or use anything else like tone, whistle, calling etc...
3. If he continues to ignore step 2 then what?

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by Sharon » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:24 pm

PM sent
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:03 am

Okay I now understand what you guys mean when you say his recall sucks. I tried filming him and now get it. Its hard for me to read something and understand without seeing it done or having it broken into steps. Its just how my brain is. Its not that I was ignoring the advice slistoe its just hard for me to visualize something. When I filmed I realized how many times I am actually calling him for him to finally come.

I followed Sharons advice which was. Sharon hope its okay that I post it here I am hoping it will help others.
1. Call ONCE Loudly and Firmly
2. If he doesn't come use low level of stimulation but do not call him
3. If still doesn't come increase stimulation and do not call him

I didn't use any beeps, whistle, vibrations or anything like that. I just follow Sharon's steps which were easy for me to understand. When did step 1 he almost always ignored it. When I utilized step 2 it worked 60/40. Step 3 worked every time. I set the collar and nick and went pretty high with step 3 but he only yelped once or twice which makes me think I have to go a bit lower.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by Sharon » Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:23 am

Not exactly what I said, but I hope it helped give you some insight.

What I said:
1. Call verbally ONCE loud and firmly ONLY.
2 If he doesn't come, use stimulation at the level you've seen him normally respond to around the house- lifts his ears, turns his head etc..
3 If he ignores that raise the stimulation one level , but don't call him or use anything else like that tone, whistle, calling etc...

" If he continues to ignore step 3 then what?" quote K

4. Raise the stimulation again ONE level but just that, use nothing else.

" I set the collar and nick and went pretty high with step 3 but he only yelped once or twice which makes me think I have to go a bit lower." Kquote

*** One would hope you would only use that level ( crying out), for a very special circumstance - ONE step/level at a time and give the dog time to respond.
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by BigK75 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:38 pm

Sharon wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:23 am

*** One would hope you would only use that level ( crying out), for a very special circumstance - ONE step/level at a time and give the dog time to respond.
For sure I am going dial it down quite a bit.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:56 am

BigK75 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:47 pm
........
When you guys say one command and then enforce do you mean call him and if he doesn't come then immediately call him again and use stimulation? .....
I'm going to tell a story on myself and see if it helps you to understand.

Many years ago, I had a Borzoi. My dogs come when they are called, no exceptions. So, I'm looking at this dog, who is way down at the end of the field, and I called her.

The first time I called, she turned and faced me. The second time I called, she crouched down and readied herself. The third time I called, she launched herself at me, shot from guns, as fast as she could move, and a Borzoi can move mighty fast.

I had inadvertently taught he that I would call her three times and that she was to come at that third call. Ready, Set, Go!

The lesson for me was to give the command one time and if the dog didn't respond correctly to that one command, I would discipline.

Be very aware of what you are saying to the dog. Do not give multiple commands, not only in the field but at home. The command for the recall is "come". It is not "come.. come.. come!"

Your dog is not solid on the recall. I suggest that you work on the recall at home, in the house, in the backyard, and then when the dog really understands that he is to go to you every time with just the one command, then start to increase the distance.

I use the "wait" command for all sorts of things. It means don't go out the door. It means be still while I cut your nails. It means you have gone far enough and wait for me there. It means don't jump out of the car. Dogs don't have any problem understanding what it means, but you must be consistent about it. One command and enforce it.

People use different commands, so use what comes out of your mouth easily. To me "whoa" means stop right there and don't move, which is not what I want when I want the dog to hang out and wait for me to get closer.. But you use what you feel comfortable with. Just pick a distance and let the dog know what the distance is. But I suggest some work on vocabulary in a more controlled environment so the dog has no doubt about what the commands mean. The dog needs to learn that you will enforce, and that is a lot easier to train in a small area where you can catch him if you have to.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by cjhills » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:59 am

BigK75:
I think you need to start from scratch with a good collar conditioning program. He needs to learn that he can control the collar by obeying the command.
Most trainers have DVDs explaining how to use there program. Perfection Kennels and George Hickox are the ones I use. I am sure there are other very good ones.
Just cranking up the juice when the dog has no idea how to respond is sending the wrong message. He just learns to tough it out, that it won't kill him and will stop sooner or later. Try a little more training and less force.
I know how frustrating it can be, but understand the dog is not being bad, he is just doing what he has been bred to do. It is tough for a first time trainer to deal with a high powered dog. You need to take baby steps in the open where you can see him. Try to hide from him so he has to find you.
If you are using birds, plant them where you can get close to them before the dog does, so when he comes back he finds birds near you. At this time he is just running and not hunting. Actually I don't know if you mention birds. He needs a purpose.
Take it easy on the nerve medicine and enjoy the ride. Be kind, train not force, he will get it and so will you........Cj

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by kninebirddog » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:02 pm

BigK75 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:43 pm
kninebirddog wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:12 pm
BigK75 wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:00 pm


He was bold and independent right from the start. I would say I tried to control it somewhat but maybe not enough. This the first dog I have ever owned so I am really an expert.
And this is why I do not send bold independent pups to beginning owners.

If you can the best suggestion I can give you is seek a Rick and Ronnie Smith seminar. It will be very worth your investment to having a foundation with hands on learning to help you get a new beginning to rebuild on and make new repetition's to become hopeful new habits.
Sure I agree with you but it was the beginning of COVID and we had 40 minutes to pick a pup.
So said the breeder didn't take that effort to help ensure that the best potential pup for potential family wasn't important enough to them :cry: that should have been 40 minutes socializing with new pup Oh well its history hopefully people reading this will learn to ask breeders how they pick homes for their pups, as competitive pups should go to someone who has that outdoor life hunting and or field trialing that wants that go go independence and hunting companion homes wants the pup that wants to be scratched behind the ear and snuggled but when the tailgate drops the ____ stops and the hunting begins :D
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by slistoe » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:03 pm

I've always like what Delmar has to say.
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:51 pm

Shags gave you the correct answer (I didn't read the rest). When the dog is 100 yards out zap him THEN recall him. Do it in an open field. Don't let him rely on a recall FIRST. Make him think about where he is. That's why you want an open field, so you can see him and he can see you. Don't go back in the woods until he has the field range down pat.
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by polmaise » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:12 pm

BigK75 wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:34 pm
Hey Guys,

Need some help. I asked a similar question but slightly different a few months but I am at a loss at what to do and need help. I love my dog but every time I take him to the woods in Ontario I come back back super frustrated. My dog will not check in on me and its starting to really irritate me. Every time I am out I play hide and seek with him and unless I call him in he doesn't care where I am. He runs like crazy and is often 300 yards away going in the wrong direction. When I ecollar him he will come back and his recall is good especially after I sent him to a trainer for two weeks. His inability to come checkin is starting to take away joy of taking him for walks in the forest as I constantly have to look at my GPS to see where he is going. Today I let him go to see if he would come back but at 370 yards I finally had enough and ecollared him back to me. I want him ranging 100 yards max since we are in Ontario. This dog is incapable of doing that and what's worse he will never check in. I would be cool with a dog that went our 200 yards in front of me if he came and checked in but like I said he is often running in the wrong direction. I am at the point of giving up on him. This means residing that I will never hunt with him or take him to the forest. Its not worth my sanity. He is also 1 year 1 months old. He is so awesome at some many things like recall and heeling and I am constantly getting compliments when I take him for walks but his inability to check in and range closer has me pretty depressed.

Thanks,

BigK75
Making a dog do something is different to making a dog 'want' to do something . Both are training, and some just either go with the flow , or get hog tied on what they should or shouldn't do .
It's often difficult to achieve the status where a dog is more interested in where you are, rather than you concerned where the dog is.
The collar may not be your answer at this stage for you or the dog is my response. Perhaps a heart to heart good ole talk ,face to face with a plain ole' dog trainer in the neighborhood would be a good start ...without cookies and without collar ?

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by weimdogman » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:30 pm

I would sell the dog to someone wanting that big run. You wouldn't hook Secretariat up to a plow would you?

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by cjhills » Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:16 am

About picking a puppy:
I have sold many puppies to a lot od people. Every buyer thinks they know more about picking a puppy than I do. Some are really good at it. Some are not.
Usually I can influence their pick. Sometimes I encourage them decision to go elsewhere.
Checking in is very overated. Why would you want the dog to waste time checkinng in. he should be aware of where you are. that is breeding not training.
Without a tracking collar a big running dog is useless to me in the grousewoods. how do you find a dog on point at 200 yds in the woods. Plus in northern minnesota we have more Grey wolves than all the rest of you combined. Sometimes they kill a dog.
If you can't live with the big running dog or train him to hunt closer sell him and move on. Some dogs will hunt closer if you plant birds close to you. so they findbirdsclose by.
When you pick another puppy avoid big field trial dogs, whose primary purpose in life is to see what is over the next hill.......Cj

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by polmaise » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:48 pm

about picking a puppy:
If anyone can tell me the secret to this I'm all ears!
Not sure what it has to do with the thread ,or anything really, but sure would like to know a definitive answer, so I can sleep at night . lol x .......

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by cjhills » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:01 am

Well, I could be wrong. There is a first time for everything.
I did think I read a few posts about getting rid of the dog because the OP picked the wrong one, so I thought it was relevent.
No secret. If you pick the right litter,it makes very little difference what puppy you pick.There should be a lot of right ones. More about not picking the wrong one. If you want a GSP purple female with green spots you prpbably will not have many to pick from.
Every one of my hunting dogs have been the last puppy left in their litter. Every one can and will kick their litter mates butts.
Sleep well, Cj is here to help you..........Cj

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by slistoe » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:00 am

cjhills wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:01 am
Well, I could be wrong. There is a first time for everything.
I did think I read a few posts about getting rid of the dog because the OP picked the wrong one, so I thought it was relevent.
I didn't go back to find the post it was in, but that is why I thought it was relevant as well.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by weimdogman » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:03 am

I just happen to have a gap female that is purple with green spots! Due to rarity asking 100,000.00 US. P.M. for more info.

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by polmaise » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:12 pm

Is there a club you can join on here where only the members can agree with each other as long as it's a member ? :)

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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by Sharon » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:10 pm

BigK 75

Your thread seems to have gone off the tracks. Feel free to continue to ask questions about your dog; lots of folks here willing to give real help. You are definitely not the only one who struggled for a year (or2+) with their new dog.

Reminder to members to always read the original post before responding.
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Re: Getting fed up with my Brittany not checking in

Post by polmaise » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:41 pm

Sharon wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:10 pm
BigK 75

Your thread seems to have gone off the tracks. Feel free to continue to ask questions about your dog; lots of folks here willing to give real help. You are definitely not the only one who struggled for a year (or2+) with their new dog.

Reminder to members to always read the original post before responding.
Well said Sharon! It helps immensely with continuity and clarity.

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