Force Fetch Age

[Back]

At what age do you guys start the FF training?

[bb560m]

At what age do you guys start the FF training?

depends on the dog. might do our GSP at 6 mos (he's 5.5 mos now). did our vizsla at 18mos. gsp is much harder headed though.

[Double Shot Banks]

our lab will be between 6-8 months, i heard its good to wait until they lost all their baby teeth

[Sierra Wirehair]

I have to say that I am using the method as described in the Green Book from NAVHDA. I am already seeing my 7mo GMP beginning to comply with holding the fetch dummy as well as my son's 4 yr old GSP. I think this method seems to not be a pressured as I what I imagined force fetch to be and the dogs are progressing hapily.

[ultracarry]

A pro that could get his hands on the dog and evaluate it in person would be the safest way to go.

[birddog1968]

It really depends on the dog and what, in the end, your goals are with the dog.

give us some more info. Strictly a birddog, waterfowl, Navhda testing, Hunt testing, field trials????

[Hattrick]

Depends on the dog. I have a male an female from the same litter. The male i did at 7 months he could handle the preasure young and i'm just starting the female now shes 14 months. Not sure if she could of handled it at 7 months without taking alot drive out her.

[Hattrick]

I would say if this is ur first time FF get some hands from someone has done it

[EvanG]

our lab will be between 6-8 months, i heard its good to wait until they lost all their baby teeth

That's a good general guideline for a retriever. It can apply just as well to a versatile or pointing dog. But many of them don't mature as quickly as retrievers tend to. When the dog shows adequate maturity, don't hold them back. 35+ years of forcing all breeds has taught me sooner = better, but with the qualifier mentioned.

EvanG

[Back]

It really depends on the dog and what, in the end, your goals are with the dog.

give us some more info. Strictly a birddog, waterfowl, Navhda testing, Hunt testing, field trials????

He will be strictly a birddog. He is just over 7 months... Knows basic commands (come, kennel, load, sit, stay, will walk well on a leash). Been trying to let him be a pup for the most part, but he's not much into the retrieving aspect.

This is the third GSP that I've had and the first that has not been a natural retriever.

[bb560m]

He will be strictly a birddog. He is just over 7 months... Knows basic commands (come, kennel, load, sit, stay, will walk well on a leash). Been trying to let him be a pup for the most part, but he's not much into the retrieving aspect.

This is the third GSP that I've had and the first that has not been a natural retriever.

How hard headed is he? Can he take pressure well? We are possibly doing ours at 6 mos because nothing bothers him, yell at him, kick him off you if he's jumping, etc., doesn't care. So he can take the pressure well. If yours is the same I'd say do it now.

[birddog1968]

I take it you've taken him hunting and shot birds for him? Does he go to his dead birds at all?


At 7 months you got time yet no need to be in any rush..... some more on what exactly he's not doing ?

[Hattrick]

Big strong hard headed dogs are easier to handle when they are 6 months. I agree earlier the better as long as they can handle it.

[Back]

I take it you've taken him hunting and shot birds for him? Does he go to his dead birds at all?


At 7 months you got time yet no need to be in any rush..... some more on what exactly he's not doing ?

He's been hunting and had birds shot over him. He will go to dead birds, but will not bring them back. Once you try to bring him in with the check cord, he drops the bird and heads in to me quickly.

He's pretty tough. He listens well and is probably ready, my only thing is that if you guys think there isn't any rush then I will wait. I just don't want to wait to long...

[birddog1968]

I tend to wait until they are closer to 2, but thats just me....I like to get them handling birds first year, go hunting a season , then FF......my main goal being keeping prey drive sky high and pressure low.....

but done right, he'd be fine to do this spring....

[Back]

Ok... Seems like we are on the same page then. Instinct was to do it this spring so that he is ready for next season. Will access him in the spring and if he seems to immature then I will wait, but plan on it for the spring.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Francois P vd Walt]

The ones with less retrieving.....

Follow a good program Evan Graham Smart Fetch

[4dabirds]

Is the dog steady to wing shot and fall? If not expecting the dog to retrieve at this stage is only putting pressure on the dog. Work on getting the behavior of steady . When that is done force fetch the dog. If the dog is breaking at any point for the bird and you allow this, you are training it into him. It is a lot to ask of the dog to train two opposing behaviors at once.

[birddogger]

Is the dog steady to wing shot and fall? If not expecting the dog to retrieve at this stage is only putting pressure on the dog. Work on getting the behavior of steady . When that is done force fetch the dog. If the dog is breaking at any point for the bird and you allow this, you are training it into him. It is a lot to ask of the dog to train two opposing behaviors at once.

I disagree. I don't see a problem at all. I do agree with the "at once" comment. I wouldn't train both at the same time but it will not hurt to FF and train STWS later.

Charlie

[Ms. Cage]

Every dog we train is FF'd before steady to wing and shot.

[Hattrick]

Same here. It makes it easier i feel cuz they know im the boss by then. Good luck

[4dabirds]

What I said was expecting the dog to retrieve before he is steady and expecting both to work at the same time is a little premature. No problem with force fetch work first if that is what is important to you. If the timing is right and you can not work with birds in the spring getting force out of the way will expedite your process thats great. That still leaves you with a dog thats not steady assuming he is not already. At this point steadying the dog will be made more difficult if the dog is allowed to retrieve because the dog will anticipate the retrieve and will be more distracted . This adds to the pressure necessary to keep the dog steady. If the dog is never allowed to retrieve at all until it is steady ,the flight of the bird is reward enough for the dog. Obviously this is counter to what a lot of people think on this site. They will claim that the dog seeing the bird fly off will be perceived as a loss by the dog. If the dog has not been allowed to catch the bird in the first place it will not be such a great distraction. Cover dogs are trained to a very high expectation and never retrieve at all. So why is it so important to rush this process with a dog that is seven months old ?

[Waterdogs1]

This is a intersting thread for me because I want to see the difference between what might be done with a pointing dog and what I do with retrievers. My GSP is nine months old and as a puppy has been a good retriever. I throw marks like a would with my labs land and water. She thinks she is a lab but since the snow is on I havn't done much but work her on wild birds. Want to hear what people thoughts are someone with a good amount of experience with pointers.

[birddog1968]

This is a intersting thread for me because I want to see the difference between what might be done with a pointing dog and what I do with retrievers. My GSP is nine months old and as a puppy has been a good retriever. I throw marks like a would with my labs land and water. She thinks she is a lab but since the snow is on I havn't done much but work her on wild birds. Want to hear what people thoughts are someone with a good amount of experience with pointers.

I've done bumper play in and out of water with all my pointers from a young age.....but i have waited to FF those dogs to clean up delivery mostly, after they are honest on their birds and have had a season hunting.....so they are usually closing in on 2 years old.

[Hattrick]

4dabirds i guess its all how you bring the dog along with birds. If you do it right from day one 10-12 wks old on, steady a dog is easy when the time comes. My last male i FF fetched him at 7months he was dead broke at 9 months walking birds, shot birds double flushs. Hes a vary big motor dog to not a boot kicker by any means. As they say FF is much more than just fetching. But If you have a game plan that works why change it. Just remember its more ways than 1 to skin a cat.

[4dabirds]

4dabirds i guess its all how you bring the dog along with birds. If you do it right from day one 10-12 wks old on, steady a dog is easy when the time comes. My last male i FF fetched him at 7months he was dead broke at 9 months walking birds, shot birds double flushs. Hes a vary big motor dog to not a boot kicker by any means. As they say FF is much more than just fetching. But If you have a game plan that works why change it. Just remember its more ways than 1 to skin a cat.

Perfect, this is an example of why age is not significant. It is really more relative to the level the dog is at ,the time spent training, and what training philosophy you are following.