Lab Troubles

[hembree1986]

I have a five month old lab pup. I am fairly new to the training process so i have some questions!! Skeet (my pup) i feel like is doing really well considering my lack of knowledge for training. Right now he is doing multiple retrieves and is pretty solid on blind retrieves, meaning i can send him in general direction and sometimes get his attention and move him closer to the bumper but he seems to always sniff it out even if i cant get his attention. The only real trouble i have is he wants to drop the dummy at my feet cant get him to hold it, if he drops it say 3 feet from me I can tell him no and he will bring it right to me. but he will not heal and hold it in his mouth until i take it from him.Is there a fix? Am I being too picky?

[DogNewbie]

I think the lab guys will tell you to Force Fetch once the baby teeth are gone.

[crackerd]

No, the "Lab guys" will tell him or her s/he's got the training cart way ahead of the pony or puppy. And it's careening away with far more serious consequences than a pup dropping a dummy instead of delivering to hand.

Since he's "new to the training process," he also needs to know that the training process for retrievers is sequential and one of the last steps in that sequence is a dog handling (running blind retrieves with guidance while under control). Even for the most intensively trained dogs on the planet - FT retrievers - that's usually not happening until they're 9-12 months old.

MG

[birddog1968]

No, the "Lab guys" will tell him or her s/he's got the training cart way ahead of the pony or puppy. And it's careening away with far more serious consequences than a pup dropping a dummy instead of delivering to hand.

Since he's "new to the training process," he also needs to know that the training process for retrievers is sequential and one of the last steps in that sequence is a dog handling (running blind retrieves with guidance while under control). Even for the most intensively trained dogs on the planet - FT retrievers - that's usually not happening until they're 9-12 months old.

MG

bingo

[Duckdon]

How does " The only real trouble i have is he wants to drop the dummy at my feet cant get him to hold it, if he drops it say 3 feet from me I can tell him no and he will bring it right to me. but he will not heal and hold it in his mouth until i take it from him.Is there a fix? Am I being too picky?" ..........pertain to getting ahead of one's self running blinds. I agree, your getting ahead of yourself but running blinds does not make your dog drop bumpers out there at 3 feet. Get into a quality retriever program, start from page one and work the system from start to finish. Got to teach "Heel" if you expect him to heel, sit if you want him sitting. At some point you will realize you may need to Force Fetch your pup and that will clean up him dropping the bumper 3 feet away. Have fun.

[Doc E]

Are you following a Training Program of any kind whatsoever ?


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[crackerd]

How does " The only real trouble i have is he wants to drop the dummy at my feet cant get him to hold it, if he drops it say 3 feet from me I can tell him no and he will bring it right to me. but he will not heal and hold it in his mouth until i take it from him.Is there a fix? Am I being too picky?" ..........pertain to getting ahead of one's self running blinds.

Seems you've answered your own question in a Confucian if not confusing way. There are "blinds" and there are blinds. And real blind retrieves - replete with true handling - aren't trained until well after the dog's been force fetched. Your mindset that "force fetch will clean up mouth problems" is not the modern rationale for FF'ing a retriever (or a retrieving gundog). (Versatile breed trainers in particular need to try and disavow themselves of that notion now that their dogs are eligible for AKC retriever hunt tests.) Repeat after me: Force fetch is about imparting to a dog how to work with and work through pressure, and how to "handle" (and be handled with) pressure. (And yes, a good mouth is an ancillary benefit but with heavy handedness by the trainer, it can be a liability, too.) Force fetch is also the start of compulsion training - that is, a dog going as sent, and going hard as sent and in a straight line that entails true blinds. And a five-month old puppy with, from the sound of it, a first-time trainer is nowhere near mature enough to take that on, nor has its trainer the "game experience" to try it on.

MG

[Trekmoor]

I think the O.P. should cease to think of a retrieve as being an all in one bundle sort of affair and break the retrieve down into it's components for a while training only the components the pup needs at this stage.
Personally I do not think that this includes multiple retrieves, blind retrieves or handling at this pups age. I would be doing straightforward marked retrieves and probably allowing the pup to run - in and I'd be doing very easy memory retrieves and walking the pup away from the dummy left behind on a leash and very likely not at heel.

The problem of a pup dropping it's retrieve a few feet from it's owner is a very common one. It is a problem I am experiencing myself at present with the 15 weeks old brittany pup I am training. I don't train F.F. so I cannot "cure" this problem in that way. The delivery to hand could be clicker trained but I prefer to train without using a clicker . I have been having success by sitting down on the ground and playing with the pup when she comes right into me with a retrieve. Yes , this does get me a wet, cold backside but I am prepared to suffer that if I can improve the pups delivery.

Basically I think the O.P. should slow down and put some more fun into his pup's retrieves.

Bill T.

[big_fish]

SLOWDOWN my friend I'm guessing your pup hasn't even lost its first tooth yet. I was the same way I wanted my lab at a master hunter level at 7 weeks old but its not going to happen. Are you following a program if so what program are you following? Your pup is to young to FF I never FF and my lab retrieved to hand it did take a little longer but the dog did it on his own not having to be forced. My advice would be to slow down and enjoy the time with him as a puppy you will have plenty of year ahead of you for training and hunting and to follow a training program if you don't have a training program its like going on vacation with out a map your just wondering around with no direction. good luck my friend

p.s. youtube is not a training program.

[hembree1986]

thanks for all the suggestions! I read water dog and have followed that for the most part, trouble with the book is it doesn't tell you what to do if the dog doesn't respond the way he should. I may be way ahead of where i should be but if he is capable of multiple retrieves and blind retrieves why not expose him? I don't plan on hunt testing the dog so the dropping at my feet doesn't bother me too much, if he is willing to swim thru icy water to retrieve a bird i can bend over and pick it up lol. just curious to see if there was a quick fix! Skeet knows heel really well i can heel him off of a t-bone if i wanted to, the trouble is he will heel and drop the bumper not a big deal just kinda annoying. Again thanks for the suggestions

[crackerd]

Well, there you go then - enjoy your pup. And clue into what Bill T.'s told you above for British-style "training" for hold. He - the pup - will catch on and catch hold of for keeps eventually.

MG

[Doc E]

1. if he is capable of multiple retrieves and blind retrieves why not expose him?

2. I don't plan on hunt testing the dog so the dropping at my feet doesn't bother me too much, if he is willing to swim thru icy water to retrieve a bird i can bend over and pick it up.

1. Because you are not following a SEQUENTIAL training program --- you are leaving some big holes in your raining that will come back to bite you in the behind.
2. You might think so now ---- but just wait until he drops a slightly wounded bird at your feet and it flys away.


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