Banks is a Bird dog now.

[Double Shot Banks]

Today we too banks out to retrieve bumpers thrown by my dad, and retrieve them back to me. The first 1 or two he ran to my dad, and after that he only looked at him but brought the bumper back to me like a pro. We decided after about 4-6 retrieves to try a wood duck we had in the freezer and let me tell you, once he retrieve the duck he didn't want to get the bumpers anymore! He loved it and really got pumped up after that you could tell. We even set the duck out by a bucket and i sent him out after it, without my dad throwing it he retrieved it a few times. Soon we are going to get our hands on some frozen pigeons or any other birds we can get and practice this more. After a while we will start gun breaking him in a way similar to this.
Thanks for reading!
Isaac and Banks

[Doc E]

1. and let me tell you, once he retrieve the duck he didn't want to get the bumpers anymore!

2. We even set the duck out by a bucket and i sent him out after it, without my dad throwing it he retrieved it a few times.

3. Soon we are going to get our hands on some frozen pigeons or any other birds we can get and practice this more.

Thanks for reading!
Isaac and Banks

1. With a young puppy, I would NEVER mix birds and bumpers in the same session --- see what it got you ? A dog that doesn't want bumpers :roll: Mixing birds and bumpers is fine for a dog that has had a considerable amount of training (seasoned or finished level) ------- but not for a puppy.
What page in your Dokken book does it say to mix birds and bumpers ?

2. Why are you doing "blind retrieves" without a proper foundation being laid :roll:

3. Aren't you going to do any live (wing-clip) bird introductions ?


.

[Double Shot Banks]

1. With a young puppy, I would NEVER mix birds and bumpers in the same session --- see what it got you ? A dog that doesn't want bumpers :roll: Mixing birds and bumpers is fine for a dog that has had a considerable amount of training (seasoned or finished level) ------- but not for a puppy.
What page in your Dokken book does it say to mix birds and bumpers ?

2. Why are you doing "blind retrieves" without a proper foundation being laid :roll:

3. Aren't you going to do any live (wing-clip) bird introductions ?


.

1:He still retrieves bumbers, our problem was that we had the duck out and when he ran to the bumper he saw the duck and obviously ran for it and yes now i know not to mix bumpers and birds from now on, My book says nothing about this, although it does tell how to properly introduce your dog to retrieving to me, while someone else throws the bird, which worked. I apologize i do not have the money for a training program you want.

2: It is considered a blind retrieve i know, although we did have the bucket out by the duck, and he seemed to lock onto it before i signaled him to go. also my father (who has an opinion i respect and trust) thought it was a good idea (i mean good idea in a way that it wouldn't cause any harm)
Also i am confused that your proper foundation is, from what i know (yes from the little I know) the is not a wrong way to teach a blind retrieve

3: Yes, we are going to do some live birds, we will do this before and during the gun introduction, whenever we can get some live birds we will. My neighbor and dads friend has a few live ducks and pigeons although we still need to talk because im sure he will want the birds back, if we cant get any from them, our county always has an exotic bird auction in the spring, we will be sure to get life birds as soon as possible.
Thank you very much, i hope i answered you questions and concerns
and i am sorry this post only brought somewhat negative thoughts to you, it was meant to be a happy post,
No hard feelings
Isaac and Banks

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

It's A great feeling when you make progress with your dog! My question is, what do you want your finished product to be? That should always be what you build for and if you can't answer what that goal is then you can't design a program to get there.

[birddogger]

It's A great feeling when you make progress with your dog! My question is, what do you want your finished product to be? That should always be what you build for and if you can't answer what that goal is then you can't design a program to get there.

And I believe that is also the main point that Doc E is trying to make. Sounds like a real nice dog!

Charlie

[Double Shot Banks]

Brazosvalleyvizslas : I would like him to be a great upland flusher, all we ever hunt is pheasants. and a relaiable duck dog, a steady dog that will retrieve, sit heel and give the bird,
he will be a hunting dog, and a great companion, no hunt tests or anything,
Yes it is a great feeling knowing he is making process, now that most of the obedience is over and we can get into the fun stuff!
Thanks, and i know all Doc E is trying to do is help
Isaac and Banks

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

With all due respect, obedience is never over., especially with a Lab at 6 months of age. Labs thrive on learning. It doesn't matter what your teaching, as long as his brain is turning, he is happy. He will gain confidence with everything he learns and that will help him overcome his shyness. That's all I'm saying.

[Double Shot Banks]

With all due respect, obedience is never over., especially with a Lab at 6 months of age. Labs thrive on learning. It doesn't matter what your teaching, as long as his brain is turning, he is happy. He will gain confidence with everything he learns and that will help him overcome his shyness. That's all I'm saying.

yes i realize this, i basically meant, all of his foundation is done, he still needs to learn, and get more clean on some things,
Thanks
Isaac and Banks

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

So what does he do and what needs "cleaning" up as far as obedience? I also missed the part where you wanted to do upland as well as retrieving so I'm changing how I think about your situation. When Banks retrieves, how enthusiastic is he? Does he charge hard or is it more methodical?

[Double Shot Banks]

So what does he do and what needs "cleaning" up as far as obedience? I also missed the part where you wanted to do upland as well as retrieving so I'm changing how I think about your situation. When Banks retrieves, how enthusiastic is he? Does he charge hard or is it more methodical?

The only things he needs to clean up in my opinion are his heeling, his finishing retrieves, and his steady,
When he heels, he does a great job but he sniffs the ground some, i am working on getting rid of this problem and it has become less of a problem every day, the only reason i dont want him sniffing the ground, 1. i want him watching me. 2. he sometimes stops and doesn't heel,

When we do retrieves, most of the time he is steady, he usually doesn't pull but all i need to do is keep reinforcing this by not letting him go until i give him his signal, i have only been teaching this for a week, only a few retrieves a day, this is not a problem, just not done yet.

His finish retrieving i am not worried about, he brings it all the way back and to me, but usually runs by me, and "over-runs" me so i have to call him again, sometimes i have to start running away so he follows, although this is annoying, unless it gets worse i am not going to do much because im sure once he is force fetched this problem will be fixed.

When he retrieves he is really into it, especially when we brought the bird out, he is full charge, running there and back. He loves it.

Im not sure what you meant by "I also missed the part where you wanted to do upland as well as retrieving" he will be a pheasant hunting "flusher" and a duck/goose dog,
Thanks,
Isaac and Banks

[ezzy333]

Young man, Don't get too upset when everyone wants to say you aren't doing it right. They may be right if you were training a finished competion dog but for what you are wanting it sounds like you are coming along pretty well. Do make sure you keep as close as you can afford to the program you are following alonf with listening to your Dad if he has trained dogs before that perform well enough for you to enjoy your dog and he can get the job done. In the future you may want to train a dog to perform different or better in what ever venue you want, so remember there are methods that will probably help you get it done and I am sure you will enjoy getting it done. But there has to be a first, we all have had one, and not a single one of us did it the same or probably even right, but the bond you have with that pup will pull you through and he will go down in your memory forever.

Good luck and enjoy, that is what we all have a dog for.

Ezzy

[Double Shot Banks]

Young man, Don't get too upset when everyone wants to say you aren't doing it right. They may be right if you were training a finished competion dog but for what you are wanting it sounds like you are coming along pretty well. Do make sure you keep as close as you can afford to the program you are following alonf with listening to your Dad if he has trained dogs before that perform well enough for you to enjoy your dog and he can get the job done. In the future you may want to train a dog to perform different or better in what ever venue you want, so remember there are methods that will probably help you get it done and I am sure you will enjoy getting it done. But there has to be a first, we all have had one, and not a single one of us did it the same or probably even right, but the bond you have with that pup will pull you through and he will go down in your memory forever.

Good luck and enjoy, that is what we all have a dog for.

Ezzy

Thank you very much for seeing it from a different angle, the forum has definetly helped me, but it has also changed my mind and make me feel like im not doing anything right,
Isaac and Banks

[mountaindogs]

Well said, Ezzy!
I would avoid advice from "Never/Always " type folks. Every dog and every dog human bond is unique. The only real constant that I would apply those two words to are you and your dog are always learning (for good or not) and you never stop learning.
Keep at it and have fun. Above all else remember why you want a dog to hunt with in the first place.

[crackerd]

I would avoid advice from "Never/Always " type folks.

Ezzy's right, but you'd be wrong. I think you've recently gotten into retrievers - you ought to know that formal retriever training is the same whether it's for a duck dog or a field trial retriever. It follows a program, whatever your choice of program is, and adheres to that, irregardless that "every dog and human bond is unique."

Good ol' Doc's pedantry notwithstanding, you'll learn that soon enough if you stay with retrievers.

MG

[Doc E]

Thank you very much for seeing it from a different angle, the forum has definetly helped me, but it has also changed my mind and make me feel like im not doing anything right,
Isaac and Banks

Isaac

Believe it or not we were all young once too. We all had our first dogs. We all made (still make) mistakes.
I frequently come across pretty crass, but trust me, I'm truly trying to help ya out.



.

[mountaindogs]

My statement is not a "retriever " statement. It is a life statement. Most people (not trainers only, but in most all walks of life) go through learning phases. 1) they are new and know very little amd they know this. 2) They are good at what they do and know alot 3) they realize how vast the knowledge still left to learn is.
It is true I am new to formalized retriever" training and I agree you should do your homework, read several programs and follow a plan. Bit aside from all that, whether you are training retrievers, pointing dogs, tracking dogs, herding dogs, obedience whatever you would do well to avoid the always / never mentality. That is only advice. Take it or leave it but still ENJOY YOUR DOG amd Enjoy your hunting

[crackerd]

It is true I am new to formalized retriever" training and I agree you should do your homework, read several programs and follow a plan.

Again, you'd be wrong - one program (always), mix and match programs (never).

As I say, you'll learn, if you're planning on getting anywhere with retrievers - competitively. "That is only advice." Otherwise, what Ezzy offered the young man is on the money.

MG

[Double Shot Banks]

I truly thank you all for helping me out, i know i am going to make mistakes, i already have.
But the truth is, all i want it a dog that loves to hunt, and does what i ask, (obviously) and if Banks turns out to be what i think he will, he will be a heck of a better dog than most people in this area have and use. I obviously joined this forum for advice, and i have gotten more than i could ask for, And because of trapping i have learned an important lesson that aplies here, you can read all you want form books, and hear all the storys you want, but you only really learn when you go out and do it.
Thank you all, i hope no one got off on the wrong foot and i will keep the forum updated on banks progress.
Isaac and Banks

[Duckdon]

With all due respect, obedience is never over., especially with a Lab at 6 months of age. Labs thrive on learning. It doesn't matter what your teaching, as long as his brain is turning, he is happy. He will gain confidence with everything he learns and that will help him overcome his shyness. That's all I'm saying.

Good post. I am not a good trainer as it seems I need to re-visit OB almost everday. ???? Seems it's the same way with the wife as well...... Don

[mountaindogs]

In what portion of this thread am I discussing mixing programs? If you are reading what I am saying here and saying I am wrong then you must be referring to absolutes.
Because regarding programs I don't recall advising mixing here. I do advise reading and learning more than one though. That is my science background. If you find a piece of evidence, look for more. If you find lots more then you are supporting a (hypothesis) we'll say idea for sake of this topic. If you find conflicting evidence, it could be a number of reasons. Only by asking more and learning more will you find out those reasons or come closer at the very least.

If, however, you are referencing some other knowledge outside of this thread then I fail to see how you are helping the OP with the topic at hand. If you dislike the way I train or the plan I have that is fine. Personally, I can not assure anyone I am right. Nor that you are for that matter. Perhaps I will find failure in the way I try. So what? I will still have fun trying and I will try again applying what I have learned and making mistakes too, as we all do.
I am tolerant and try not to form judgments over the internet about someone I know little about. I have in the past enjoyed this board for the friendly, supportive and constructive topics on gundogs. New owners and trainers on here will quickly leave and learn nothing if they get bashed for sharing their thrill of training and starting a young dog.

[mountaindogs]

read several programs and follow a plan.

How many plans? Read several but follow ... 1 plan :roll:

[crackerd]

Like I said, you're new to retrievers. You'll learn soon enough, scientifically or not, and then them rolling eyes will come rolling back at you in wonderment of what you didn't know - but chose to comment on anyhow.

MG