VIDEO: The Flow of the Hunt

[Higgins]

Here is a short video of some of the dogs we worked this past weekend. When I talk about "flow" I mean the excitement of the hunt. As the handler, I'm responsible for controlling the dog's excitement level. I want to see all the dogs style, intensity and drive but I can't let him go over the top (get overexcited) and blow out. Because these dogs have not been trained or handled with e-collars or verbal commands, it's real important that I read them well.

http://vimeo.com/61679149

Brad Higgins
Higgins Gundogs

[DogNewbie]

You do a good job of explaining your thought process. Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

[mountaindogs]

Very nice.

[Fran Seagren]

Yes, I agree. Great video and explanation.

[HUNT 24/7]

Great video! Thanks for posting!

[Vernal Pike]

Video is not there.
Would you please boot it up again?


Thanks,

Vernal

[Higgins]

Hello Vernal,

The link should work now. I have a lot of training and hunting videos available. I rotate some of them depending on current training and the dogs/clients we're working. Here it is again. I'll leave it up for a couple of weeks.

http://vimeo.com/61679149

Thanks for your interest.

Brad Higgins
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com
___________________________
Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.

[Sharon]

Very thought provoking. Is ure learned that lesson of not coming up in front of the dog to flush. Dog was on point. I moved ahead ready to shoot, took off the safety, bird flushed, dog broke and hit my legs - could have easily shot my toes off.

With your method - which I am not real familiar with- why doesn't the dog break on the flush?

[Higgins]

Very thought provoking. Is ure learned that lesson of not coming up in front of the dog to flush. Dog was on point. I moved ahead ready to shoot, took off the safety, bird flushed, dog broke and hit my legs - could have easily shot my toes off.

With your method - which I am not real familiar with- why doesn't the dog break on the flush?

Hello Sharon,

The short answer is that he does not break because he knows that breaking will not lead to success (the bird in his mouth). The "Magic Brushpile" portion of my training shows the dogs that by trusting me to get the bird, they will always be successful. They learn that they need me.

I don't ask the dogs to be steady. In my method, steadiness is not an obedience command, it is simply a byproduct of the bigger picture. They are steady because that is the hunting strategy that works. Once they establish point, they will remain steady and ask me to go out front and kill the bird.

Here is a link to the flowchart of my method. It will give you a better understanding of what I do to build the necessary foundation of trust and success. http://higginsgundogs.com/about-us/our- ... flowchart/

Brad Higgins
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com
___________________________
Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.

[Sharon]

Thanks very much for the explanation. I'm too old to change my training methods now , but always interested in what others have found to be successful.

[will-kelly]

Another great video Brad.

Having followed your method for a few years now I think it is one of the method that can really change training.

My latest questions are...

Have you been able to implement your method on dogs that are already trained with problems?

- The reason that I ask is a ton of what you read on this forum and others around the Internet pertains to the mistakes that people make with their dogs at a younger age that leads to huge challenges once the dog is older.

do you feel the Higgins method can have success in the competitive field trial world?

-so many people use an E collar to steady and polish their dog and when I watch your videos, with the exception of the occasional head movement,your dogs seem extremely steady.

[Higgins]

Another great video Brad.

Having followed your method for a few years now I think it is one of the method that can really change training.

My latest questions are...

Have you been able to implement your method on dogs that are already trained with problems?

- The reason that I ask is a ton of what you read on this forum and others around the Internet pertains to the mistakes that people make with their dogs at a younger age that leads to huge challenges once the dog is older.

do you feel the Higgins method can have success in the competitive field trial world?

-so many people use an E collar to steady and polish their dog and when I watch your videos, with the exception of the occasional head movement,your dogs seem extremely steady.

Hello Will-Kelly,

More than half of my business is fixing and rehabbing dogs and their owners. With my method, problems like blinking, letting down, lack of drive, hard mouth, retrieving problems, etc, are generally pretty easy and quick to fix. It has to do with the fundamental, foundational differences between my method and others. Dogs I train work to get the bird and they know I can help.

I don't do field trials because they are no longer based on hunting. They are more of an obedience drill with birds thrown in as a distraction. I train hunting dogs.

[gundogguy]

I don't do field trials because they are no longer based on hunting. They are more of an obedience drill with birds thrown in as a distraction. I train hunting dogs.[/quote]

Are you breeding your own bitches? If so where do you go for studs?

[Higgins]

Hello Gundogguy,

I don't hunt or breed any US dogs anymore. All the dogs I breed and hunt are my own Scottish imports. These dogs have been used for generations as falconry dogs. They have a great balance between drive and cooperation. Trialers here would not like them. They have a natural, stylish point and they hunt like a predator.

[will-kelly]

I don't do field trials because they are no longer based on hunting. They are more of an obedience drill with birds thrown in as a distraction. I train hunting dogs.

I agree with this point about field trials.

I was curious more about how polished of a dog you may get the longer you work within the Higgins System. Using field trials as a basis because I know what a champion looks like and hunts like. There are a ton of hunting dogs out there that would succeed and field trials but the owners have no interest.

The proper breeding with the proper training and guidance is what I consider to be the true measure of success in gun dog training.

Do you use some of the traditional methods to fix things like hard mouth and retrieving problems? I have watched how you limit the retrieving in your method with dogs.

I will continue to watch In fascination and wish there was somebody out east that I could see work with dogs in this capacity.

[Higgins]

Hello Will-Kelly,

I don't use field trials as a basis. Trial dogs are no longer predator/prey based hunting dogs. To me your word "polished" denotes obedience and training. In my dogs, I want to see natural, instinctual hunting. When I allow them free will, they give me everything they have. That's the "polish". They know I'm here to help them be successful.

As far as fixing problems, I help them by showing them what it takes to be successful (getting the bird in their mouth). Most of what I do is the exact opposite of what typical obedience based trainers do. First, instead of breaking down trust, I build trust. Most problems are caused by too much pressure. The answer is not to add more pressure as most do, the answer is to remove pressure and show the dog how to be successful. A good example is flagging or letting down on point. Other trainers add pressure by going to the dog and standing or styling him up, yelling whoa, using the e-collar etc. My method is different. I remove pressure by turning my back and walking away. As soon as he tightens up, I return and kill him a bird.

As far as retrieving goes, dogs see it as chasing birds. That's why I introduce it last, after steadiness. If I did retrieving at the same time I'm working on steadiness, it would confuse young dogs and the training would take considerably longer. From the dog's point of view, I would be trying to teach steadiness and chasing birds at the same time. Before he is steady, I go out and retrieve birds back to the dog.

[whatsnext]

That is nothing like any "hunt" I have ever been on.

[gundogguy]

Hello Gundogguy,

I don't hunt or breed any US dogs anymore. All the dogs I breed and hunt are my own Scottish imports. These dogs have been used for generations as falconry dogs. They have a great balance between drive and cooperation. Trialers here would not like them. They have a natural, stylish point and they hunt like a predator.

Well I can relate to that I have had UK imported Springers from Wales, Scotland and England for some 30 years. The spaniel trialers DO like the UK dogs here. Our trialing system is much closer to hunting than what You may previously experienced in the pointing dog trials in the USA. The Spaniel field trial system is not an obedience trial with birds thrown in for distraction.

Hal

[whatsnext]

Hello Gundogguy,

I don't hunt or breed any US dogs anymore. All the dogs I breed and hunt are my own Scottish imports. These dogs have been used for generations as falconry dogs. They have a great balance between drive and cooperation. Trialers here would not like them. They have a natural, stylish point and they hunt like a predator.

Well I can relate to that I have had UK imported Springers from Wales, Scotland and England for some 30 years. The spaniel trialers DO like the UK dogs here. Our trialing system is much closer to hunting than what You may previously experienced in the pointing dog trials in the USA. The Spaniel field trial system is not an obedience trial with birds thrown in for distraction.

Hal

Are you guy's serious? because it sounds like you have minimal experience with anything you are talking about. The only video's I have seen from Higgins's are some training scenarios that are supposed to simulate a hunt but fall very short. How about going out and hunting wild running pheasant's and see how dog's handle that instead of a lazy pen raised bird that act's nothing like a wild bird.

As far as imports having more predator/prey drive.... well that tells me you do not even know what you are looking at, the two are different no doubt but that would only be in method not desire the way I see it. I hunt wild bird's and those Field trial dog's that have a bird thrown in for distraction do really well at finding REAL WILD BIRD'S not liberated or pen raised bird's. Maybe you have never hunted terrain like I do so you wouldn't understand what we are looking for in a dog's search.

[Higgins]

Hey Whatsnext,

You spoke about different types of terrain. Here is a video I thought you might like. Nice terrain if you're a goat.

http://youtu.be/6MvorphRLQo


Brad Higgins
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com

Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.

[Griffonpoint]

Haha Whatsnext,

I work with Higgins a bit.

Come on out to visit some time! Be glad to take you out to visit the guzzlers and chukar in our "backyard" (BLM and state wildlife areas, over 40,000 acres)...or maybe you prefer Valley Quail? Plenty of wild birds to hunt here.

I'd be curious to see the wild birds, terrain and steadiness of your dogs too. Can you post some videos?

All the very best,

Katy

[Vernal Pike]

WOW,

Is that one cool looking dog!



Vernal Pike

[whatsnext]

Haha Whatsnext,

I work with Higgins a bit.

Come on out to visit some time! Be glad to take you out to visit the guzzlers and chukar in our "backyard" (BLM and state wildlife areas, over 40,000 acres)...or maybe you prefer Valley Quail? Plenty of wild birds to hunt here.

I'd be curious to see the wild birds, terrain and steadiness of your dogs too. Can you post some videos?

All the very best,

Katy

You two are missing my point about terrain and a dog's method of search, I want a dog to run edge's and hunt objective's not quarter in front of me. Those FT dogs are running to find bird's not distractions they happen upon and they do this because of prey/predator drive.

As far as my boy's one is fairly steady and the other we are working on because I let him chase after the flush for a couple years so we have to break that habit. I have no hunting video's just picture's but I do have some crappy cell phone video's form by my house where I run them on wild pheasant's.

http://youtu.be/sv8x8WzoHY4

The second video I failed to trust my dogs and released them instead of continuing to try and flush the bird.
http://youtu.be/w_YsNibksmw

[whatsnext]

And a couple more

http://youtu.be/rXDYTbyismA

http://youtu.be/vO7iOUODX7w

[Becassier]

Hal[/quote]

Are you guy's serious? because it sounds like you have minimal experience with anything you are talking about. The only video's I have seen from Higgins's are some training scenarios that are supposed to simulate a hunt but fall very short. How about going out and hunting wild running pheasant's and see how dog's handle that instead of a lazy pen raised bird that act's nothing like a wild bird.

As far as imports having more predator/prey drive.... well that tells me you do not even know what you are looking at, the two are different no doubt but that would only be in method not desire the way I see it. I hunt wild bird's and those Field trial dog's that have a bird thrown in for distraction do really well at finding REAL WILD BIRD'S not liberated or pen raised bird's. Maybe you have never hunted terrain like I do so you wouldn't understand what we are looking for in a dog's search.[/quote]

I had to re-read your post a few times to understand what may have gotten your panties in such a knot. “The flow of the Hunt” is it because Higgins uses the word “hunt” in the video and clearly it is a “training” scenario? He is trying to get across how to control the energy of the dog while training. This will translate later under hunting conditions.

Why does he do this? Most people think their dogs energy level has to be amped up, a dog that is not clam and balanced cannot learn. People thrive off their of dogs energy level to cover their mistakes, I hear it all the time my dog needs to break on the shot because of crippled birds. When in all reality they are not disciplined enough to go further than puppy development. The better a dog is trained the better the dog will be while hunting.

Personally we do not start formal training (manors on game) until our dogs have run on wild birds twice. By the time our formal training starts, it has already been established that the dog can hunt. Our training methods are similar to Brads, a philosophy based on; no talking, no e-collar and controlling the energy level. Our dogs have been developed to learn how to learn. Once formal training begins there is no more running on wild birds, they are not allowed to move backwards. We are control the flow and the balance while training.

The below video is of our dog Jack and I hunting, this boy is steady usually to shot. Not on this bird with me, why? This was mid day before our lunch break, it took us a while to get to him, scenting conditions were awful and he was close to the bird, I'm sure he actually saw it. My wonderful husband is trying his best to get my butt up there and shoot the bird. There is too much talking going on and my biggest mistake was walking right next to the dog doing exactly what Higgins is talking about.

http://youtu.be/kmvs4RihKQs

2 weeks later we had 2 people come in for a hunt we donated through Woodcock Limited. Our dogs have never ran with either of them, they are very hesitant to flush the bird. Mike and I are out of the picture during this video, the scenting conditions were better, the bird was not shot and you will see there is no chase, the energy level is down. Jack just goes on hunting..

http://youtu.be/ne2Hr4zVvnU

[ezzy333]

I have no problem with whatever method you use to train but I do have a problem with the marketing hype when I listen to people tell me what the dog is thinking or what I am thinking. Like this last post when they say our dogs break on flush or shot because we are too lazy to teach them not to. Do you question how they know why you haven't trained steadiness? Truth is they don't know as is evident, but the really sad part of it is, if they are going to stray from the truth on this subject, where else are they straying from the truth. In my mind, it makes it very hard to believe much of what is being said on any of these videos when you see the differences between what is stated and what the dog is actually doing. I like a lot of what brad does but have to chuckle at the explanations of what the dog is thinking.

Just to set the record straight, I not only allow my dogs to break on flush or shot, but encourage it as we hunt pheasants almost exclusively and the quicker they are to the fall area the higher the percentage of recovered birds. Now if I was hunting coveys, I would change that since I think the dogs flush more birds when they break and with quail there is less chance of losing a down bird.

Guess it all comes down to controlling the dogs energy and not it's natural desire to chase so I am changing my feeding program and no feed for the dogs for three days preceding a hunt, bet that will make them steady and will let me be even lazier. lol

[Higgins]

Guess it all comes down to controlling the dogs energy and not it's natural desire to chase so I am changing my feeding program and no feed for the dogs for three days preceding a hunt, bet that will make them steady and will let me be even lazier. lol

Hello Ezzy333,

You're beginning to see the bigger picture. Here is the question you need to ask yourself. Isn't a dog's natural desire to chase driven by his want to get the bird in his mouth? After all, he points as a "pause before the pounce". He is demonstrating his ability to control his energy/excitement level to increasing his odds of success. He's talking to you if you choose to listen.

Brad Higgins
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com

Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.

[Higgins]

You two are missing my point about terrain and a dog's method of search, I want a dog to run edge's and hunt objective's not quarter in front of me. Those FT dogs are running to find bird's not distractions they happen upon and they do this because of prey/predator drive.

As far as my boy's one is fairly steady and the other we are working on because I let him chase after the flush for a couple years so we have to break that habit. I have no hunting video's just picture's but I do have some crappy cell phone video's form by my house where I run them on wild pheasant's.

http://youtu.be/sv8x8WzoHY4

The second video I failed to trust my dogs and released them instead of continuing to try and flush the bird.
http://youtu.be/w_YsNibksmw

Hello Whatsnext,

Nice looking dogs. You're about ready to start shooting those birds. Now is where the real fun begins.


Brad Higgins
Higgins Gundogs

Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.

[Vernal Pike]

You two are missing my point about terrain and a dog's method of search, I want a dog to run edge's and hunt objective's not quarter in front of me.



http://youtu.be/sv8x8WzoHY4

Your dog quarters very nicely!

Best,

Vernal

[mnaj_springer]

I just want to say I enjoyed all these videos. I wonder what the dogs think as these big clumsy humans kick around grass in front of a point only to ask them to relocate on a bird that's still there!

I trained with a guy whose dog went on point, he kicked around for it, nothing happened, so he asked the dog to relocate. It took half a step. He kicked around again, nothing again, but the dog only moved half a step. So he tried kicking around some more. On the third "relocation" the dog laid down and we found the bird underneath the dog. Lesson learned: trust the dog's nose!

[whatsnext]

You two are missing my point about terrain and a dog's method of search, I want a dog to run edge's and hunt objective's not quarter in front of me.



http://youtu.be/sv8x8WzoHY4

Your dog quarters very nicely!

Best,

Vernal

The dog went right took the edge of a waterway for about 200 yards then left to the tree line and ran that. if you knew what you were looking at you would have seen that he was still running straight when I stopped recording. I understand you are a fan boy of Higgins ,Vernal Pike .

[Vernal Pike]

I understand you are a fan boy of Higgins ,Vernal Pike .

I don't understand your visceral attack toward Higgins. It was impolite.

To let you know, I have never personally met Brad Higgins, nor have I ever trained any of my dogs with his technique.
But I can't argue with his results nor his satisfied clients and reprogrammed dogs who were screwed-up by other methods.
Also, I have never seen where Higgins discouraged his dogs from freely searching objectives, nor have I seen in any of his videos that he trained them to robotically quarter.

So Whatsnext, what is next? After 2 years your dog is still not steady to flush. Perhaps considering another training option may be of benefit for you. You have two nice looking dogs. I enjoyed your videos.


Vernal Pike

[whatsnext]

I understand you are a fan boy of Higgins ,Vernal Pike .

I don't understand your visceral attack toward Higgins. It was impolite.

To let you know, I have never personally met Brad Higgins, nor have I ever trained any of my dogs with his technique.
But I can't argue with his results nor his satisfied clients and reprogrammed dogs who were screwed-up by other methods.
Also, I have never seen where Higgins discouraged his dogs from freely searching objectives, or have I seen in any of his videos that he trained them to robotically quarter.

So Whatsnext, what is next? After 2 years your dog is still not steady to flush. Perhaps considering another training option may be of benefit for you. You have two nice looking dogs. I enjoyed your videos.


Vernal Pike

Watch the one video fan boy the bird flushed and the dog did not move anything but his head to watch the bird.

[Vernal Pike]

What technique did you use to train him?

Vernal Pike

[will-kelly]

Just to set the record straight, I not only allow my dogs to break on flush or shot, but encourage it as we hunt pheasants almost exclusively and the quicker they are to the fall area the higher the percentage of recovered birds. Now if I was hunting coveys, I would change that since I think the dogs flush more birds when they break and with quail there is less chance of losing a down bird.

Hey I am a poor shooter as well. Without that dog getting to those cripples I would starve to death.

Sometimes you have to decide to I train this dog so I can eat or do I want to win a ribbon. I'm with you Ezzy. I like to eat!

[ezzy333]

Just to set the record straight, I not only allow my dogs to break on flush or shot, but encourage it as we hunt pheasants almost exclusively and the quicker they are to the fall area the higher the percentage of recovered birds. Now if I was hunting coveys, I would change that since I think the dogs flush more birds when they break and with quail there is less chance of losing a down bird.

Hey I am a poor shooter as well. Without that do getting to those cripples I would starve to death.

Sometimes you have to decide to I train this do so I can eat or do I want to win a ribbon. I'm with you Ezzy. I like to eat!

With me it isn't driven by eating but I abhor killing or worse yet wounding and animal and not recovering it. It would be a difficult question whether pointing or retrieving is the main function of a good dog since both are essential in my mind.

[Vernal Pike]

I was curious more about how polished of a dog you may get the longer you work within the Higgins System. Using field trials as a basis because I know what a champion looks like and hunts like..

How about a perfect NAVHDA score!
Click the link below.


http://higginsgundogs.com/forum/higgins ... -thread18/



Vernal Pike

[will-kelly]

Hello Gundogguy,

I don't hunt or breed any US dogs anymore. All the dogs I breed and hunt are my own Scottish imports. These dogs have been used for generations as falconry dogs. They have a great balance between drive and cooperation. Trialers here would not like them. They have a natural, stylish point and they hunt like a predator.

You say they are Scottish. What is the foundation? Almost looks like a black vizsla.

[Higgins]

You say they are Scottish. What is the foundation? Almost looks like a black vizsla.

Ebercombe. Stephen Frank's Embercombe line is legendary in the UK and Europe. He was a long time falconer who lived and hunted grouse with his falcons and pointers on the moors of Scotland.

[Trekmoor]

The Embercombe pointers are well known here. I have been out with a few dogs of this breeding owned by friends. Lovely dogs to watch in action and they can "go" a bit.

Bill T.

[will-kelly]

That black dog is an english pointer? Would have never guessed it. The head size and cape are not what I am used to seeing in an english pointer. It is such a classy looking dog. Beautiful animal!

[Elkhunter]

So American bred FT dogs cannot find and hunt wild birds? Gotcha.......

Better let my hounds know we will not be going out this weekend...

[whatsnext]

So American bred FT dogs cannot find and hunt wild birds? Gotcha.......

Better let my hounds know we will not be going out this weekend...

Your dogs are just happening upon all those wild bird's because they lack the prey drive to willingly find them.

[Sharon]

What??????????

[whatsnext]

Hello Will-Kelly,

I don't use field trials as a basis. Trial dogs are no longer predator/prey based hunting dogs. To me your word "polished" denotes obedience and training. In my dogs, I want to see natural, instinctual hunting. When I allow them free will, they give me everything they have. That's the "polish". They know I'm here to help them be successful.

The answer to your question is in this paragraph Sharon.

[Higgins]

Hello Whatsnext,

The truth is, most successful field trailers don't hunt their dogs. Field trailing is a very specific, high performance competitive sport. I stand by my statement.

Brad Higgins
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com

Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.

[ezzy333]

Hello Whatsnext,

The truth is, most successful field trailers don't hunt their dogs. Field trailing is a very specific, high performance competitive sport. I stand by my statement.

Brad Higgins
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com

Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.

Nothing wrong with standing behind your statement but you also have to remember that many of us are as experienced as you are and we know what is happening too. I am sure you have no evidence that says most successful trialer's do not hunt their dogs and along with that I will bet you are dead wrong. I have to admit again I agree with much of what you do but just have trouble handling your sales pitch when you start claiming inside knowledge of what the dog is thinking, the techniques you use and calling them your method when they are the same thing many others are doing, and the list goes on. Just bothers me when you are doing things right and then thinking you need to over sell everything and take credit for things that you borrowed from other trainers. Dog training is something a lot of us have done, some professionally and some with just a kennel full of their own dogs. And there is not a one of us can say we do it a lot better than anyone else as we all do it in somewhat the same basic way with little twists that we find work well for us. But the end product is still a dog that finds birds, points or flushes in the manner we have taught them to and they make us happy most of the time.

Something we all have noticed I am sure is the fact that most Labs are flushers. But there are a few that pointed to a degree before they flushed and some held their point and let you flush. This variance has been found to be genetic and has allowed us to breed for those characteristics and we have seen the rise of the pointing Lab both in numbers and style and ability. And I will almost guarantee not a one of those dogs spent sleepless nights trying to figure out how to best handle a bird so you could shoot it. A pointing dog points because of instinct and a flushing dog does the same. With experience they may figure a way to hold that bird till you get there but much of that will also be a result of training. In fact I think we can still go back to what we have known for years is the dog has to have the natural ability(instinct), needs to do it in a manner we accept(training), and needs the opportunity to do it the best it can(experience). That is when we have a dog we can be proud of and it took very little thinking on the dogs part or our part either but it did take time(patience) and improvement(practice) for both the dog and the trainer with out a lot of bragging(humility) to produce the dog we want.

[whatsnext]

Hello Whatsnext,

The truth is, most successful field trailers don't hunt their dogs. Field trailing is a very specific, high performance competitive sport. I stand by my statement.

Brad Higgins
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com

Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.

That's funny because most of the people I talk to at field trials hunt the dog's That they have. And yes some of them have very successful dog's in field trial's.

[SCT]

I believe most if not all amateur field trialers hunt their dogs, but I would say most professional field trialers don't "hunt" them much. However, many of the pro trained trial dogs that don't make it into the "game" are sold to southern plantations and are hunted on a daily basis. And some are sold to dedicated hunters, usually at a very premium price!

Here's one of my pups from field trial lines at 6 months old taken a few days ago. She is all natural and will be for many more months, before any real "training" is put on her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPpRVPvExho

I would say she's got some natural drive. My line (not created by me) of pointers also have natural retrieve, you just have to encourage it, if that's what you want. 100% field trial blood!

Steve

[Elkhunter]

The ignorance displayed by some dogs trainers is immense.....

FT dogs no longer have prey drive now? wtf