Training too much on pigeons?

[desertcountrygsp]

My dog handles great on pigeons, but come brace day he does ok on quail in a trial. It seems to take some time for him to transition back over to trial birds. My question is, has anyone ever experienced training too much with pigeons and not enough with quail. Game birds are hard to come by around here. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[ranmcc]

When I am training young dogs. I always keep quail. I built some small wire cage to put the quail in and use launchers to launch pigeons. Make sure you build the cage small enough so he can't move around.

I put the quail out in the cage in weeds but not too thick put the pigeons in the launchers at least two about 12 to 15 feet out from the quail.
Lead the dog and let him point the quail then flip the pigeons out one at the time. Then I can lead the dog off and just put the quail back
in the pen. Pigeons go back to loft. Dog is always pointing quail scent not pigeon scent.

[bonasa]

+1 on quail being scent bird , launched pigeons being the sight bird.

[DonF]

If you don't have game birds, keep using pigeons. But don't do much hands on with the pigeon's. I believe the biggest problem with pigeon's is that trainer's use them like a training bird so that becomes what they are. There will be a turn over period not because the quail smells the way it does and maybe the pigeon is stinky but because they smell different and they act different. They are going to act the way you make them act! Either like a training bird or a wild bird, that choice is your's!

[Sharon]

I've found that young dogs need experience on all the different game birds before they are confident with each kind. Not surprised quail would be a new challenge. In the Fall when I turn a young dog loose on pheasant that would also be a new experience for the dog. Let alone smell , even the way the bird flushes can surprise a normally staunch dog.

[ezzy333]

If you don't have game birds, keep using pigeons. But don't do much hands on with the pigeon's. I believe the biggest problem with pigeon's is that trainer's use them like a training bird so that becomes what they are. There will be a turn over period not because the quail smells the way it does and maybe the pigeon is stinky but because they smell different and they act different. They are going to act the way you make them act! Either like a training bird or a wild bird, that choice is your's!

Can't agree more. The pigeon is just another bird to a dog and it will work it like any other bird. The difference is strictly how you use them and not the dog.

Ezzy

[Winchey]

I have seen some dogs that are good on pigeons, grouse and woodcock get taken out on quail.

[campgsp]

You should use both. But it really doesn't matter. I've trained dogs fully using only pigeons and they transitioned fine on new game.
Here is something to think about.. how are the birds being handled by you or the planters at the trial? To much human scent cam be a significant factor. A dog's nose, knows.

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

When using pigeons plant a lock wing as your scent bird and don't let the dog smell the bird in the launcher.
Bring your dog in to the scent cone of the planted bird with the launchers well away from the scent cone. The less human scent left with the scent bird the better. Also its best not to camouflage the natural scent of the bird with any sort of structure. Think of the dog like a predator that's approaching a baited trap, and consider having your bird planter use rubber boots and gloves.

I don't know much about field trials, but most upland hunt tests are a joke. There is little if any logic used in regard to set up concerning approach and scent.

Nate