Gun Dog Forum

My pup Luke is 1 year old today. He is in his crate 3 days a week for 6 hours total although the wife does come home around hour 4. These days are mostly fine. But its when there are "off" times when he barks and whines the whole time. Like last night when we had to go to a birthday dinner the neighbors said he barked and cried for most of the time we were gone. On top of that he was tired, he ran 15 miles behind a mountain bike yesterday (3x a week), we always leave music on, and we always leave something to play with (bone, kong, rope). What options do i have? Is a bark collar feasible or will this make him more anxious? Any help would be great.

BayAreaGSP wrote:My pup Luke is 1 year old today. He is in his crate 3 days a week for 6 hours total although the wife does come home around hour 4. These days are mostly fine. But its when there are "off" times when he barks and whines the whole time. Like last night when we had to go to a birthday dinner the neighbors said he barked and cried for most of the time we were gone. On top of that he was tired, he ran 15 miles behind a mountain bike yesterday (3x a week), we always leave music on, and we always leave something to play with (bone, kong, rope). What options do i have? Is a bark collar feasible or will this make him more anxious? Any help would be great.

None more than you are doing. That's the way things are in the real world with dogs. He is at his PEAK as far as needing exercise - not a walk around the block. With a dog like that you must find time for hard exercise Every Day. Get up early or .............

Did I understand that you keep your dog in a crate for 6 hours per day several days a week or is it 2 hours per day several days a week. I hope you ar enot crating your dog for 6 hours as that in my mind is high inappropriate. Why not give him to someone who can properly care for the dog?

I would think 6 hrs straight in a crate would be too long without at least one break for a pee. But a bark collar would be and is what I use when they bark incessantly in the crate.

I have dogs that will sleep for eight to ten hours straight in a crate. I check on them and they decline to crack an eye when I ask them if they want to go out. If they weren't in the crate, they'd be passed out somewhere else.

As far as the whining, a bark collar won't stop it. It's a shorthair. Their vocal abilities are legend when it comes to the variety of nerve fraying noises they can emit. Some of mine will even make the "sonic whine" in their sleep, in between snores.

If he's in a wire kennel, try a plastic one. Or cover it, if he can be trusted to not eat a cover.

I hope you ar enot crating your dog for 6 hours as that in my mind is high inappropriate. Why not give him to someone who can properly care for the dog?

Six hours is NOT "inappropriate" for a 1 year old dog. :roll: :roll:

One of the things I tried was to leave the house and stay by the door, as soon as he started barking I would run in the house and smack the crate and yell NO BARK!!! After a few days it stopped..

My take on this is he learned if he makes enough noise he will be let out.
What does he do if you crate him when your in the house with him.?
6 hrs straight is not to long for a 1 year old.

woodedareas wrote:Did I understand that you keep your dog in a crate for 6 hours per day several days a week or is it 2 hours per day several days a week. I hope you ar enot crating your dog for 6 hours as that in my mind is high inappropriate. Why not give him to someone who can properly care for the dog?

Yikes. You think having a dog crated for six hours a few days a week makes someone unqualified to own a dog? Sure, GSPs are high-energy dogs, but even they still sleep most of the day. We had a Boxer once who, unfortunately, had to do a few 12-hour stints (I was providing stateside support for relief efforts in Haiti), and he managed just fine too. Dogs are pretty resilient.

woodedareas wrote:Did I understand that you keep your dog in a crate for 6 hours per day several days a week or is it 2 hours per day several days a week. I hope you ar enot crating your dog for 6 hours as that in my mind is high inappropriate. Why not give him to someone who can properly care for the dog?

Haha well unfortunately I have to leave my 1 year old GSP crated 5 days a week for 6 to 8 hours. People have to work!

Have you taught him the kennel or crate command? All 4 of my GSP's will kennel up on command. It's their den home safe place.. Don't feel bad about crateing him. Not all places are dog friendly.

Woodedareas comes on here and on his very first post slams the OP for crating his dog for 6 hours, calls it inappropriate and says the dog should be given to somedody that can properly care for it. Hey Woodedareas, I bet this is the same dog that he uses when he goes and shoots innocent helpless birds. Now isn't that inappropriate? I'm sure people at the forums on the HSUS or PETA websites would cherish your opinions more.

BayArea, I think a bark collar would help your situation. I have used them on a couple of my dogs with great results. One was a barker in an outdoor kennel and the other, much like your GSP, barks and whines in the crate. Barking and whining is eliminated with the bark collar. If you search this forum there are other threads addressing bark collar specifics.

BayAreaGSP wrote:My pup Luke is 1 year old today. He is in his crate 3 days a week for 6 hours total although the wife does come home around hour 4. These days are mostly fine. But its when there are "off" times when he barks and whines the whole time. Like last night when we had to go to a birthday dinner the neighbors said he barked and cried for most of the time we were gone. On top of that he was tired, he ran 15 miles behind a mountain bike yesterday (3x a week), we always leave music on, and we always leave something to play with (bone, kong, rope). What options do i have? Is a bark collar feasible or will this make him more anxious? Any help would be great.

Did you use the crate for housebreaking? Did he then or does he now sleep in the crate? Most dogs learn to accept their kennel as a safe zone and become very comfortable there. Sounds like he may have some seperation anxiety issues.

Nate

If the dog perceives his whining barking at any time as rewarding it will continue. The dog barks you let him out, you just rewarded the bark. Dog whines you feed him , you just rewarded the whine. Dog sits by you, vocalizes in any fashion, you pet him , you just rewarded the vocalization. Dogs use strategies to get what they want. The behaviors they exhibit are the ones that are rewardable. They will waste no time doing something that is not rewarding. Dog is in the crate he makes no noise you let him out , you just rewarded silence. You need to spend some time training new behaviors into the dog that are acceptable and stop rewarding vocalizations . Read the book Culture clash by Jean Donaldson it will help you to better understand what you are up against. As far as the bark collar is concerned it may or may not work and it still leaves your dog without a strategy that is rewarding to communicate with you what it is in need of. Keeping the dog on a schedule will go a long way in helping you. You can use clicker training to teach the dog that staying in the crate for a period of time is rewardable behavior. The click would be held back after the dog gets into the crate at longer and longer intervals. This coupled with a correction for barking such as throwing a rolled up towel at the crate will create a contrast for the dog. This contrast makes the reward as well as the correction more significant.

4dabirds wrote:This coupled with a correction for barking such as throwing a rolled up towel at the crate will create a contrast for the dog. This contrast makes the reward as well as the correction more significant.

I disagree with this approach. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of using both "clickers" and "bonkers" as training tools. But the dogs kennel should be established as a safe zone, and is not a place for correction to take place. When using the bonker you need to notify and bonk the dog for correction, not an inannimate object.

I do agree that the dog should not be encouraged or rewarded for undesired behavior. Ignoring the undesired behavior will eventually cause the behavior to extinguish, but if he anticipates and recieves a reward for it, it will continue.

Nate

I agree with the above posts. Sounds like the dog is being rewarded for barking in the crate. More then likely the most obvious problem.

I'll take the middle ground on this one. I agree that early on the crate should be a safe place, but some dogs will just whine and whine no matter how long you ignore them. Just like some dogs bark simply for the sake of barking. Mine started to whine like this despite getting zero attention or reward for it so I started getting up and shaking the crate every time he whined. He associated the shake with his whine, not with the crate. He no longer whines in the crate when he has to be in there and will often spend time in there when he doesn't have to.

DogNewbie wrote:I'll take the middle ground on this one. I agree that early on the crate should be a safe place, but some dogs will just whine and whine no matter how long you ignore them. Just like some dogs bark simply for the sake of barking. Mine started to whine like this despite getting zero attention or reward for it so I started getting up and shaking the crate every time he whined. He associated the shake with his whine, not with the crate. He no longer whines in the crate when he has to be in there and will often spend time in there when he doesn't have to.

Agreed, nothing like a well-timed, good crate quake to stop the barking/whining.

DoubleBarrel GunDogs wrote:

4dabirds wrote:This coupled with a correction for barking such as throwing a rolled up towel at the crate will create a contrast for the dog. This contrast makes the reward as well as the correction more significant.

I disagree with this approach. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of using both "clickers" and "bonkers" as training tools. But the dogs kennel should be established as a safe zone, and is not a place for correction to take place. When using the bonker you need to notify and bonk the dog for correction, not an inannimate object.

I do agree that the dog should not be encouraged or rewarded for undesired behavior. Ignoring the undesired behavior will eventually cause the behavior to extinguish, but if he anticipates and recieves a reward for it, it will continue.

Nate

I hear your point on the safe zone, but a one year old dog has well established what the crate means to it. My post is more about training an alternative behavior for the dog to perceive as rewarding. This is something that will have an effect on all communication the dog has. One of my dogs pushes his bowl when he needs water in it. Barking is ignored and has become ineffective as a strategy. My setter stands at the back door and waits to come in and go out.
He will usually nudge me with his nose if it is urgent. The point is the dog needs a different strategy then the one you do not like . If the dog has been using barking as a strategy for a year it has had hundreds if not thousands of repetitions training this behavior into the dog. It is past the ignoring stage. The dog will keep trying over and over until it succeeds. This may mean bark continuously until someone shows up ,then be quiet and get out as a strategy. The bonker will break this up. Dogs cue on time as well as any other cue. Use this to create a schedule for the dog so the dog uses silence as a strategy and knows that it will be rewarded in time.

Holy cow! No responses in 2 weeks then this! Firstly, yes i leave my dog in his crate for 6 hours (with one pee break around 4 hrs) those days he still gets a full 2 hrs of running. He does 45 miles a week behind a mountain bike and off leash running on non biking days. He is an athlete for sure, but he does get worked out EVERYDAY.

He slept in his crate for the first 8 months now sleeps next to our bed on the floor, he has been crate trained from the beginning. On the days where he is alone for 6 hours he sleeps most of the day and is fine. Like i said in the first post its those off times, going out to dinner or going to the gym in the pm where he barks and whines. He is not vocal in any other way, no barking or whining otherwise. When we are in the house we can put him in his crate by command with no issues just a simple "go to jail" and he stays there happily.

woodedareas wrote:Did I understand that you keep your dog in a crate for 6 hours per day several days a week or is it 2 hours per day several days a week. I hope you ar enot crating your dog for 6 hours as that in my mind is high inappropriate. Why not give him to someone who can properly care for the dog?

Say what? Do people not work? 3 days of crate time? :roll:

Mike50 wrote:My take on this is he learned if he makes enough noise he will be let out.
What does he do if you crate him when your in the house with him.?
6 hrs straight is not to long for a 1 year old.

Doesnt get let out, nobody is home. When we are home and he is in the crate he just sleeps, no barking

I think I'm a little clearer on your problem. Dogs thrive on consistency . You have changed the dogs regular routine in this case . If you can on these off times . Kennel the dog and build up his tolerance for accepting the kennel when it is not his regular time. Also you could leave as you would to go out and just stand by while your wife drives away in car. Then use the e- collar when the dog barks. Or buy the bark collar since its only during these certain times that it happens.

To make myself a little clearer . I think it's important that the dog sees these off schedule times as a normal occurance and there is a reward at the end. It would be best to do the training first before using any correction.

Ended up getting a sportdog bark collar from gundogsupply.com, works like a freekin charm. Not a peep out of him, seems calmer, and sleeps while away. I chose the sportdog because of the multiple settings. Its progressive but then goes back to "0" after 30 sec

madmurph wrote:Woodedareas comes on here and on his very first post slams the OP for crating his dog for 6 hours, calls it inappropriate and says the dog should be given to somedody that can properly care for it. Hey Woodedareas, I bet this is the same dog that he uses when he goes and shoots innocent helpless birds. Now isn't that inappropriate? I'm sure people at the forums on the HSUS or PETA websites would cherish your opinions more.

BayArea, I think a bark collar would help your situation. I have used them on a couple of my dogs with great results. One was a barker in an outdoor kennel and the other, much like your GSP, barks and whines in the crate. Barking and whining is eliminated with the bark collar. If you search this forum there are other threads addressing bark collar specifics.

Right on!!!

Charlie