Tri-Tronics Pro 200 or Pro 100?

[royta]

I'm getting ready to pick up my first e-collar. Do I want the fine adjustment on the constant or the nick/momentary? What is your reasoning?

[nikegundog]

I'm getting ready to pick up my first e-collar. Do I want the fine adjustment on the constant or the nick/momentary? What is your reasoning?

Just for your information the Flyway is the exact same collar as the Pro 200 (except one has silver buckle), the Pro 200 general costs $20-30 more.

[ACooper]

I do not know what your budget is but I bought the pro 500 so I could have the adjustment on both.

[RoostersMom]

IMO, the momentary buttons are useless. Even if you use them, you can press the continuous and let go, it makes it a momentary stimulation. Most e-collar training that I know of counts on the varying level of continuous stimulation. You press the button until the dog exhibits the trained behavior. Momentary doesn't make sense to me.

[Doc E]

I do not know what your budget is but I bought the pro 500 so I could have the adjustment on both.

For sure -- The Pro500 EXP is the finest out there.


.

[Doc E]

IMO, the momentary buttons are useless. Even if you use them, you can press the continuous and let go, it makes it a momentary stimulation.

You can press and release a button in 0.08 seconds :roll:


.

[ACooper]

IMO, the momentary buttons are useless. Even if you use them, you can press the continuous and let go, it makes it a momentary stimulation. Most e-collar training that I know of counts on the varying level of continuous stimulation. You press the button until the dog exhibits the trained behavior. Momentary doesn't make sense to me.

I thought so for a long time also, but I soon realized that when I was trying to "nick" the dog by quickly pressing and releasing the continuous button I was getting no correction at all.

[Ms. Cage]

I like the 100 pro. like Doc E we like to tap. We've used the 100 pro for yrs. Coop, you must have some fast fingers.

[brad27]

IMO, the momentary buttons are useless. Even if you use them, you can press the continuous and let go, it makes it a momentary stimulation. Most e-collar training that I know of counts on the varying level of continuous stimulation. You press the button until the dog exhibits the trained behavior. Momentary doesn't make sense to me.

Have you felt the cont. vs nick on the pro 100? Even pressing the cont as fast as you can doesn't feel like nick. You will still feel the "wave" of electricity with cont vs the single sharp "nick" of the nick button.

[Maurice]

I like the 500 model. I want and use both nick and continuous during training. I think my timing is real good. I have yet to see a trainer that could nick and dog with the continuous button as fast as the preset momentary button will deliver each and every time that you press it. If I could only pick between the 100 and 200 models I would go with the 200. I also think the 200 with the preset nick is a good collar for a new person to learn with. It is harder to overwhelm a dog with the 200 imo.

Mo

[Ms. Cage]

Another you might want to concider is the Dogtra 2500. Has both the nick and continuous.

[RayGubernat]

I cannot tell you which to get because I do not know how you train. If you do avoidance type training, continuous is what you need. If you use stims as cues or warnings, nicks would be a better choice.

I have a Flyway Special because I use the nick buttons almost ALL the time. I very rarely use the continuous button actually. The first nick button delivers a stim that is 1/3 of the selected level, the other button delivers 2/3 of the stim of that level and when pressed together, the unit delivers 100% of the stim level. I think the only difference between the Pro 200 and the Flyway
Sp. is a tone button which I do not use.

FWIW, I have found that pressing the nick buttons alternately, in rapid succession really does get the dog's attention at a very low level of stim. Something about getting those varied stims, , in rapid succession, must really get through to the dogs brain.

The way I train, I haven't needed more than six levels of continuous...yet. More often than not it is nick , nick, nick on level one, or level 2 on an older dog...and if the dog doesn't respond...about four seconds on level 4. That usually derails whatever train of thought the dog was riding.

I think those multiple levels of stim that are very small increments apart tend to "encourage" folks to raise the stim level slightly and then, a few sessions later, raise it slightly more...etc.
That, to me is conditioning it to accept and ignore ever increasing levels of stim. Bad idea. Like turning off someone who is constantly nagging. The nagging gets ignored.

I train a dog to respond to a command with voice and checkcord. If the dog ignores a verbal command when on the checkcord, I pop the cord and the dog knows ...instantly...that it must obey. I don't generally keep the pressure on the checkcord. I will pop it again in rapid succession, or if necessary, I will haul back on it and pull the dog off its feet. When off the checkcord, if the dog ignores a verbal command I "pop" the e-collar in the same manner with a nick or series of nicks.

I also do not believe in nagging a dog. I give the command once. Ignoring the command in the face of distraction in the field will then have me nick the dog. If the dog ignores the warning nick, It gets a high hard one...right then...right there.

E-collars are one of those tools where those that use them a lot get very comfortable with a certain type of unit and a certain way of using it.

RayG

[Coveyrise64]

I like the 500 model. I want and use both nick and continuous during training. I think my timing is real good. I have yet to see a trainer that could nick and dog with the continuous button as fast as the preset momentary button will deliver each and every time that you press it. If I could only pick between the 100 and 200 models I would go with the 200. I also think the 200 with the preset nick is a good collar for a new person to learn with. It is harder to overwhelm a dog with the 200 imo.

Mo

I use the Pro 500 but like Mo's would be happy with using the Pro 200. Nick to stop is the foundation of my training and it is difficult to do with any consistency using the continious button.

cr

[birddogger]

I have been very satisfied with the pro 100 which also has the nick or continuous option.

Charlie

[AZ Brittany Guy]

I like the 100. It has more than enough levels to get the job done. I use a continuous stim to get the dog to "stand still" and a nick to turn a dog or make them come in. I am a whoa post trainer and the 100 matches my needs.

[roaniecowpony]

I have a Pro 100, Garmin Alpha, and a DT 2420.

I get the same response from my dogs using a bump/pump with the Pro 100 as I do with momentary settings on the Alpha or 2420. The 100 still allows me to use it for avoidance (continuous) training, which the 200 can't do.

[rinker]

I have a Tritronics 500, and I would rather have the 100. I think momentary stimulation is useless, and occasionally the switch on the 500 will get bumped to momentary without me realizing it.

[P&PGunsmith]

i have been using the pro 100 since it came out and it has worked out great in every way. the only dislike i ever had was the location of the tone button and that got put in another place on the new units so you would never have that problem.

[roaniecowpony]

i have been using the pro 100 since it came out and it has worked out great in every way. the only dislike i ever had was the location of the tone button and that got put in another place on the new units so you would never have that problem.

Is yours the latest EXP G3 or the earlier version? I have the EXP G3 and the tone button is at the top out of the way.

[Neil]

Pro 500 for the reasons Mo gave.

[kninebirddog]

I love my pro 100 If I want momentary I press and release for what I need when I need it. I do not have an extra toggle switch in my way of the transmitter fitting comfortably in my hand which I have that when I had the 500 nor do I have to worry about which toggle switch is in what position since I control what I want with my two fingers on the buttons.

[royta]

Thanks for the advice everybody.

I do understand the differences between the Pro and Field models, and how some Field models duplicate a specific Pro model, except the Pro would have the Tone feature and the Field might not.

I also understand that the Low, Medium, and High levels are a 33 1/3%, 66 2/3%, and 100% of each respective 1 through 6 numerical level setting.

I plan on using the Nick/Momentary feature the most. Nick when the dog is jumping on the open dishwasher, or nick when the dog is jumping on you. I plan on using avoidance type training too. That is if I understand avoidance type training correctly. Would it be using Continuous while pulling the dog to you while saying "come" and releasing when the dog reaches you? Or is that a poor method of training?

I don't think for a minute that my press and release is fast or perfectly timed enough to think I could substitute the actual Momentary button.

I just need to know whether the finer steps within each numerical level is better suited for the Continuous or the Momentary. I don't know near enough about training to know what I will like. No, I don't plan on pressing buttons until I have a good plan, but I do want to start running my pup in the fields with the collar on so that she gets used to wearing it, and in case she starts chasing unwanted game like deer, elk, rabbits, etc.

Edited To Add: Of course I'll start by trying positive reinforcement to teaching Come, Heal, Here, etc by using treats.

[nikegundog]

Thanks for the advice everybody.

I do understand the differences between the Pro and Field models, and how some Field models duplicate a specific Pro model, except the Pro would have the Tone feature and the Field might not.

I also understand that the Low, Medium, and High levels are a 33 1/3%, 66 2/3%, and 100% of each respective 1 through 6 numerical level setting.

I plan on using the Nick/Momentary feature the most. Nick when the dog is jumping on the open dishwasher, or nick when the dog is jumping on you. I plan on using avoidance type training too. That is if I understand avoidance type training correctly. Would it be using Continuous while pulling the dog to you while saying "come" and releasing when the dog reaches you? Or is that a poor method of training?

I don't think for a minute that my press and release is fast or perfectly timed enough to think I could substitute the actual Momentary button.

I just need to know whether the finer steps within each numerical level is better suited for the Continuous or the Momentary. I don't know near enough about training to know what I will like. No, I don't plan on pressing buttons until I have a good plan, but I do want to start running my pup in the fields with the collar on so that she gets used to wearing it, and in case she starts chasing unwanted game like deer, elk, rabbits, etc.

Edited To Add: Of course I'll start by trying positive reinforcement to teaching Come, Heal, Here, etc by using treats.

Just for your information if you call Tri-tronics up (as I did), they will tell you the the "Flyway" and the "Pro 200" are the same unit (tone and everything), only exception is the black/silver collar buckle. Same identical unit minus the sticker.
http://www.tritronics.com/content/produ ... son-chart/

[royta]

Thanks for the advice everybody.

I do understand the differences between the Pro and Field models, and how some Field models duplicate a specific Pro model, except the Pro would have the Tone feature and the Field might not.

I also understand that the Low, Medium, and High levels are a 33 1/3%, 66 2/3%, and 100% of each respective 1 through 6 numerical level setting.

I plan on using the Nick/Momentary feature the most. Nick when the dog is jumping on the open dishwasher, or nick when the dog is jumping on you. I plan on using avoidance type training too. That is if I understand avoidance type training correctly. Would it be using Continuous while pulling the dog to you while saying "come" and releasing when the dog reaches you? Or is that a poor method of training?

I don't think for a minute that my press and release is fast or perfectly timed enough to think I could substitute the actual Momentary button.

I just need to know whether the finer steps within each numerical level is better suited for the Continuous or the Momentary. I don't know near enough about training to know what I will like. No, I don't plan on pressing buttons until I have a good plan, but I do want to start running my pup in the fields with the collar on so that she gets used to wearing it, and in case she starts chasing unwanted game like deer, elk, rabbits, etc.

Edited To Add: Of course I'll start by trying positive reinforcement to teaching Come, Heal, Here, etc by using treats.

Just for your information if you call Tri-tronics up (as I did), they will tell you the the "Flyway" and the "Pro 200" are the same unit (tone and everything), only exception is the black/silver collar buckle. Same identical unit minus the sticker.
http://www.tritronics.com/content/produ ... son-chart/

That's good info. I must not have been paying attention. I didn't realize there were that many Field series collars that also had the Tone. Pro 200 performance for $90 under the Pro 500. Hmm.

[royta]

If I knew the course adjustment of 6 settings wasn't too much for my pup, the decision to buy the Field 90 would be a slam dunk. However, I don't know 1 is too low or 2 is too high. Because I plan on using the collar to enforce, and teach, the "come" command (like described here... http://www.tritronics.com/content/dog-t ... tion/tips/), I'm starting to think the Pro 500 is the collar to buy. This way I know I can find the right level for MY dog.

I'm also starting to think the Pro 100 would be better than the Pro 200. When my dog is digging in the yard, or jumping on people, or jumping on the open dishwasher, I will want to correct the bad behavior. I would use Momentary, and because Momentary is so short, I think using the courser levels is fine. For teaching a command, I'd use Continuous and would want just enough stim to get the job done.

Am I way off base here?

[birddogger]

You won't go wrong with any of the units mentioned but if you are concerned about having enough stimulation, I can tell you that every one mentioned has as much and more likely more than you will ever need, including the pro 100.

Charlie

[royta]

I looked at the chart that roaniecowboy posted here, viewtopic.php?p=392161#p392161, and it looks like the Low, Med, and High is an absolute must. Those are some big jumps between the 1 - 6 only settings. Too big it might seem.

[RayGubernat]

If I knew the course adjustment of 6 settings wasn't too much for my pup, the decision to buy the Field 90 would be a slam dunk. However, I don't know 1 is too low or 2 is too high. Because I plan on using the collar to enforce, and teach, the "come" command (like described here... http://www.tritronics.com/content/dog-t ... tion/tips/), I'm starting to think the Pro 500 is the collar to buy. This way I know I can find the right level for MY dog.

I'm also starting to think the Pro 100 would be better than the Pro 200. When my dog is digging in the yard, or jumping on people, or jumping on the open dishwasher, I will want to correct the bad behavior. I would use Momentary, and because Momentary is so short, I think using the courser levels is fine. For teaching a command, I'd use Continuous and would want just enough stim to get the job done.

Am I way off base here?

Royta-

I think you may be, based on what you have just written.

I never(well...almost never) use an e-collar to teach a behavior. I very much prefer to do it with my hands, my voice and a checkcord. My dogs do not know what an e-collar is for almost a full year. I use it to enforce... and re-inforce behaviors and training that they already know and know well. That is why I typically only use the momentary stim and again typically it is at a very low level.

I try to think of the e-collar as a long distance check cord.

There are those who use the e-collar to teach. I am not one of them. If you decide to use the e-collar as a teaching tool rather than for reinforcement, then your approach would be more consistent for dealing with the situations you described.

Everything depends on how you go about the training of your dog. There are at least a dozen different ways to get from here to there with a bird dog. They all work, they are all good ways for the right person and the right dog. The real key is consistency in your approach and doing the training in a stepwise fashion, taking very small steps and making sure that the dog thoroughly understands and is comfortable with each step before moving on to the next step.

As far as six levels of continuous being not enough, I have not found that to be the case. For my training, six levels is plenty. Tritronics level 1 is VERY light, except when used on the dog's flank. Level 2 is what I normally use for obedience work. Level 4 or 5 is pretty significant stimulation which I reserve for deliberate, willful disobedience.

As I stated earlier, with multiple finely graduated levels of stim, there is(at least for me) a tendency to slowly but steadily increase the stim level as the training progresses...simply because you can. This, in effect, desensitizes the dog to ever increasing levels of stim. I actually like the fact that there is a definite difference in the stim level at each setting.

The only time I actually found the infinitely micro-adjustable stim level of a collar to be useful was when training my horse to ground tie. I have a DT collar that has sixty stim level settings. I found that the horses needed only a stim level of 8(out of sixty) on its neck, to get its attention, and that 12 or 13 was too high and freaked him out, making the useful training window very small. Horses, if you did not know, are WAAAAAAY more sensitive to e-collar stim than dogs.

I suggest that you read up on what the different training methods are, watch a couple of DVDs, go to a training seminar...whatever... and find a method you feel comfortable with. When you concentrate on that one method, the best way to use the various training tools, including the e-collar, will begin to become fairly obvious. I know it sounds like a cop out, but it really is true.

If you have a good pro in your area, it would be well worth the time and money to spend a couple of days with that pro...just watching and listening, with your hands in your pockets, as they go about training their dogs. Nothing beats watching it being done, first hand.

RayG

[roaniecowpony]

This table shows the voltage of the DT 2420 vs a Pro 100. My understanding is that all the Tritronics Pro series collars have the same voltage output. But I haven't tested all of them. I shared this with Hickox. He said that the voltage wasn't the only effect on the dog and that wave and frequency were another factor that seemed to be different between the Tritronics and the DT and that the Tritronics was harsher at the same voltage. I haven't found that to be evident in my dog's reactions. When switching back and forth between my 2420 and the Pro 100 and using this table as the guide, I've had good correlation. But if I were limited to one collar for one dog and "yard training" were the priority, I'd get a 2400 series DT.

The reason I like the Tritronics Pro for the field/hunting is that it is a more hardened build, it's slightly smaller, and the switch for the multiple dogs is visually evident. But in the field you aren't training, but rather just correcting unwanted behavior that you should have already trained. I rarely correct in the field anymore. As the dog's mature, I correct less and less. But I always want the ability to correct at a distance with the e-collar.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

This table shows the voltage of the DT 2420 vs a Pro 100. My understanding is that all the Tritronics Pro series collars have the same voltage output. But I haven't tested all of them. I shared this with Hickox. He said that the voltage wasn't the only effect on the dog and that wave and frequency were another factor that seemed to be different between the Tritronics and the DT and that the Tritronics was harsher at the same voltage. I haven't found that to be evident in my dog's reactions. When switching back and forth between my 2420 and the Pro 100 and using this table as the guide, I've had good correlation. But if I were limited to one collar for one dog and "yard training" were the priority, I'd get a 2400 series DT.

A few of us got together at a Smith Seminar a few years back and did the "neck test" on ourselves (including Rick) and found the opposite. The TT's did not give a burning sensation that the others did. K nine may want to comment on that.

[roaniecowpony]

Guy,
I haven't tried that. I'll give it a shot. The dogs (mine) seem to respond equally to the collars when using equivalent voltage. I think we're all of the same goal here...we don't want to over stimulate the dogs and cause a problem or be unduely harsh.

Clearly the TT Pro series has been used successfully in highly respected pro programs and a TT Pro buyer is getting a top product. But, the DT 2400 series has an advantage in being able to set the low and jump buttons to any level independently and the graduations are much closer together in the range of voltage that has training value. I think this is what gives the DT 2400 more value as a training collar.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Hey Chuck,

At the end of the day it comes down to "what works" for you. I have good trainer friends that like Sport Dog, DT, Dogtra etc.etc. Bill Gibbons used Innotek for years and swore by them. A long time friend and Brittany guy likes Lion Country collars. When they work right, they are all good. "eyes of the beholder".

[roaniecowpony]

Hey Chuck,

At the end of the day it comes down to "what works" for you. I have good trainer friends that like Sport Dog, DT, Dogtra etc.etc. Bill Gibbons used Innotek for years and swore by them. A long time friend and Brittany guy likes Lion Country collars. When they work right, they are all good. "eyes of the beholder".

Agreed. Technique is overwelmingly more important than the particular collar. My father used to prefer a straight green branch from a bush, but he could make a crooked one work on me too. Technique!

[birddogger]

Hey Chuck,

At the end of the day it comes down to "what works" for you. I have good trainer friends that like Sport Dog, DT, Dogtra etc.etc. Bill Gibbons used Innotek for years and swore by them. A long time friend and Brittany guy likes Lion Country collars. When they work right, they are all good. "eyes of the beholder".

Excellent!! Believe it or not, I was getting ready to say the same thing until I read your post. I will just add that, as I already stated, I use the pro 100 but I think I would be fine with just about any brand/model that is reliable.

Thanks AZ,
Charlie

[royta]

I wonder how the upcoming Delta or Delta Sport will stack up against the Field and Pro models. 3/4 mile is a lot of range. Significantly less money which means I can get an Astro that much sooner.

No, I'm not interested in the Alpha.

[roaniecowpony]

From what I've read and the discussion on the Tritronics forum, it appears to be a replication of the correction features on the Alpha. That would mean 3 correction buttons, each button either assignable to separate dogs/collars or each button assigned a correction level or tone or vibrate. The levels appear to be the 18 linear level scale or possibly the 6 levels with lo, med, hi scale, in either momentary or continuous, to approximate the Pro500 capability, but with added flexibility of independently selectable levels on each button like the Alpha. For example; I run my Alpha correction buttons as one for a low #2, the middle button for a medium 4, and the third button for a #6 tone. If the Delta/Delta Sport does these functions, I think it's a more capable collar than the TT Pro 100, 200, 500 models, but with 1/4 mile less range.

[roaniecowpony]

Thanks for the advice everybody.

...
I also understand that the Low, Medium, and High levels are a 33 1/3%, 66 2/3%, and 100% of each respective 1 through 6 numerical level setting.

...

Royta,
Take a look at the table and read the voltages for each of the buttons on the Pro 100 for low, medium and high. My interpretation is that the buttons are in the area of 10%, 20% and jump to 100%

[royta]

From what I've read and the discussion on the Tritronics forum, it appears to be a replication of the correction features on the Alpha. That would mean 3 correction buttons, each button either assignable to separate dogs/collars or each button assigned a correction level or tone or vibrate. The levels appear to be the 18 linear level scale or possibly the 6 levels with lo, med, hi scale, in either momentary or continuous, to approximate the Pro500 capability, but with added flexibility of independently selectable levels on each button like the Alpha. For example; I run my Alpha correction buttons as one for a low #2, the middle button for a medium 4, and the third button for a #6 tone. If the Delta/Delta Sport does these functions, I think it's a more capable collar than the TT Pro 100, 200, 500 models, but with 1/4 mile less range.

OK, so I'd be able to assign a button for Momentary and another for Continuous, and at a specific level? Do you have an idea how easy it would be to ramp up to a higher levels in order to stop chasing of unwanted game or some other reason which might cause the pup to disregard commands?

Thanks for the advice everybody.

...
I also understand that the Low, Medium, and High levels are a 33 1/3%, 66 2/3%, and 100% of each respective 1 through 6 numerical level setting.

...

Royta,
Take a look at the table and read the voltages for each of the buttons on the Pro 100 for low, medium and high. My interpretation is that the buttons are in the area of 10%, 20% and jump to 100%

Yeah, I don't think I saw your chart until after that post. Not quite as linear as I had thought.

[roaniecowpony]

....OK, so I'd be able to assign a button for Momentary and another for Continuous, and at a specific level? Do you have an idea how easy it would be to ramp up to a higher levels in order to stop chasing of unwanted game or some other reason which might cause the pup to disregard commands? ...

It's my understanding of what's been released on the Delta that you can assign button functions like the Alpha. So any level (or tone or vibrate) to any button and either continuous or momentary.

As to how easy it would be to raise a button's level while the dog is in chase? ... I don't know. I'm guessing if you were very familiar with it, you might be able to do it. My opinion is that you would be better off with either 3 levels of increasing stimulation or just 2 levels and have the second level of enough intensity to be just below the vocalization level (yelping) and "pump" the button until the desired behavior (turns from the chase) happens. That works for me. My dog's vocalize around the 10-12 volt area on the DT or about a #12-14 level. So, a DT level 10 (8 volts) works for my "jump" or second button pretty well.

[campgsp]

]
Just for your information if you call Tri-tronics up (as I did), they will tell you the the "Flyway" and the "Pro 200" are the same unit (tone and everything), only exception is the black/silver collar buckle. Same identical unit minus the sticker.
http://www.tritronics.com/content/produ ... son-chart/[/quote]

I thought the same dang thing. But didn't buy the flyway. It was probably the name that threw me off. (might fly away) :roll:

Good advice.

[birddogger]

IMO, we are making this much more complicated than it actually is, just like some of the training threads. Again, JMO.

Charlie

[roaniecowpony]

IMO, we are making this much more complicated than it actually is, just like some of the training threads. Again, JMO.

Charlie

For many people that's probably true.

Most people use a collar for the yell and burn method of correction. A single button, moderately high output collar that will shock the dog will work for that. For the minimum stimulation needed for collar conditioning avoidance training the collar type and capabilities become more important.

[royta]

IMO, we are making this much more complicated than it actually is, just like some of the training threads. Again, JMO.

Charlie

IMO, we are making this much more complicated than it actually is, just like some of the training threads. Again, JMO.

Charlie

For many people that's probably true.

Most people use a collar for the yell and burn method of correction. A single button, moderately high output collar that will shock the dog will work for that. For the minimum stimulation needed for collar conditioning avoidance training the collar type and capabilities become more important.

And for me, I'm just trying to buy the best product, for me, that I can.

[birddogger]

IMO, we are making this much more complicated than it actually is, just like some of the training threads. Again, JMO.

Charlie

For many people that's probably true.

Most people use a collar for the yell and burn method of correction. A single button, moderately high output collar that will shock the dog will work for that. For the minimum stimulation needed for collar conditioning avoidance training the collar type and capabilities become more important.

I agree that the collar type and capabilities are important but any of the ones mentioned will do just fine. It has more to do with the person holding the transmitter than it does the brand or model [considering the reliability of each of course]. The rest is just personal preference.

BTW, I hope you are wrong about most people using them for the "yell and burn method of correction". Also, I don't even know of a "single button, moderately high output" collar out there, for sure none of the main brand names unless you mean the ones such as the TT G3 basic and even it has as low or high stim as you need.

Charlie

[birddogger]

And for me, I'm just trying to buy the best product, for me, that I can.

I understand and that is why I said that some of us were making it sound more complicated than it is. Any of the ones mentioned should serve you well as long as you make sure you know how they are meant to be used and how to use properly.

Charlie

[roaniecowpony]

IMO, we are making this much more complicated than it actually is, just like some of the training threads. Again, JMO.

Charlie

For many people that's probably true.

Most people use a collar for the yell and burn method of correction. A single button, moderately high output collar that will shock the dog will work for that. For the minimum stimulation needed for collar conditioning avoidance training the collar type and capabilities become more important.

I agree that the collar type and capabilities are important but any of the ones mentioned will do just fine. It has more to do with the person holding the transmitter than it does the brand or model [considering the reliability of each of course]. The rest is just personal preference.

BTW, I hope you are wrong about most people using them for the "yell and burn method of correction". Also, I don't even know of a "single button, moderately high output" collar out there, for sure none of the main brand names unless you mean the ones such as the TT G3 basic and even it has as low or high stim as you need.

Charlie

OK, Charlie I'll bite. When I use my Pro 100, I cannot make a correction at levels that I know are right for my dog in the manner in which it was trained without pushing a button, then turning a dial and pushing the second button. Can I do it? Yes. My pointer was trained using the Hickox method of "notify" followed by a "correction". Why was it trained this way? Because Hickox trained it. Why do I need to do the correction that way? I don't. But I get the best results that way. The dog responds and maintains style. I've found that a "notification" of less than 2 1/2 volts and a "correction" of about 8 volts gets the correction accomplished with immediate response and without the dog punching out of the game. If I use a "correction" higher, I get a problem. If I use less voltage, I don't get the level of compliance. So, looking at that chart, you can see what dial and button configurations are needed to get what I want using my(Hickox's) technique on my dog. Too much fumbling with dials for me. So, the Pro 100 isn't fine for me and my dog. But I can get by on it. As you said, its all about technique. Your technique on your dog, apparently you're satisfied with the TT Pro. I'm not. I picked a breed, the genetics, and the training program and I'm sticking with it, as is recommended often here. I'm doing everything I can do to be successful in my little world.

Regards
Chuck

[Maurice]

Chuck is the notify phased out at some point with the dogs? I can't see much reason the keep using it once a dog is considered trained.. I like for training to be black and white, not much gray area.

Mo

[roaniecowpony]

Chuck is the notify phased out at some point with the dogs? I can't see much reason the keep using it once a dog is considered trained.. I like for training to be black and white, not much gray area.

Mo

Mo,
No, the low level stimulation "notification" remains as part of any correction. It is used the same way a clicker is used; it marks the behavior and gives the dog a short time to process/associate the behavior with a pending correction. It has to be consistant to be of value: a correction has to follow the notification. Hickox says it makes the correction more effective /meaningful. If you're training in the yard or house and you are going to give a correction (any kind, leash tug, etc.) you can say "no" or "wrong" and then the correction is given, which is a "notification". When the dog is 300 yds out and needs a correction, you can't say "no" loud enough. The low level stimulation is that notification. I have one experience where I inadvertantly gave my dog a severe correction without a notification and the dog shut down for 2 days until we got it going again with a bird. That dog had it's whole world collapse when the severe unwarranted/unassociated correction hit her.

[Maurice]

Chuck thanks for taking the time to explain that concept. It seems to be a very complex way of training to me.

Mo

[roaniecowpony]

Mo,
Maybe my explanation is complex, but the philosophy is the same as you saying "NO!" and then correcting. Since you can't say "NO!" at 300 yds effectively, notification with the low level stim is your "NO!" At least that's my understanding of Hickox's method. Maybe some of the more experienced Hickox followers can explain better or more correctly than I.