New Brittany Pup, advice needed

[SafetyChain]

I apologize in advance for so such a long post, especially first one. I have recently acquired my first gun dog I hope to have as a field partner, companion at home and in truck running errands. As of yesterday, he is 10 weeks old and I picked him up at 8 weeks. He was the last of his litter of 9 to leave, by about 3 days, as the mother's owner was torn as to whether or not let him go. Working on crate and house training, having challenges. I really do not want to "ruin" this dog. But let me give you the layout...

We live the the typical 2 story suburban home with a decent yard, especially for a pup. We also have a 2 year old Yorkie. They play together well, except when the Britt decides to taunt the Yorkie by pulling his long hair or tail. However, the Yorkie is not afraid to correct the Britt. The Yorkie, who recently lost his (and mine) best friend tragically, has run of the house and has been trained to use potty pads in the house.

I work from home, but am out of the house as well and my wife works part-time and is active otherwise outside the home. I have experimented with the Britt in that I have allowed him to lie under my desk which has not been an issue for the most part.

Cooper, the male Brittany, is gentle and quite a drama queen. He still sleeps A lot!! Nights are spent in his crate, coaxed with a treat. First couple of nights had the expected anxiety with the kennel downstairs. I then moved his kennel to our bedroom, my side of the bed. He was fine until about 3am. Then the crying started, I would get up, let him outside (off leash) to do his business. Immediately back to the kennel, fine for an hour then the crying. This past Friday, I decided to move the kennel back downstairs. Into the kennel with a treat no problem, laid down. First morning he was there until 4:30am, followed by 5am and this morning 5:30. Since moving his kennel downstairs, he has pooped in his kennel every night. So this morning, thinking the crate is too large, I added some boxes to reduce the room. After his morning feeding, and before I went to let him out about 30 minutes after eating/drinking, he pooped again. He has not peed in his kennel. Taking him outside on a leash is challenging in that he either really doesn't need to go or holds it because I have been with him over 30 minutes and no go, after being kenneled for 30-45 minutes.

Regarding his personality, like I said, a drama queen, even the vet said so, lol. He honestly is not enthusiastic to come to me or my wife. I see his desire to please, but not what I expected from a Britt pup based on my understanding of the breed. I seriously think he is testing me with the poop in the kennel thing. When crating him during the day, either to work upstairs or leave the house, you would swear he was being beat. I simply walk away and ignore. After a few minutes he settles in, but would really like him to accept the kennel more freely.

Trying to eliminate variables, I have begun feeding/watering 3 times a day, 7-7:30, lunch time and 5-7. nothing after 7. Making the Yorkie stay in the house until the Britt voids (something).

So I am trying to develop a plan to address the kennel and house training before moving onto "hunt" training but don't want to waste time either.. Any and all thoughts welcome.

1. Is expecting him to NOT void at all in his crate from 11Pm to approximnately 5-5:30 unrealistic at this point?
2. Having the crate outside our bedroom (where I will want it eventually) OK or should he still be able to see me until older?
3. Crating during the day required, or ok to let him sleep under my desk? detrimental to house breaking/kennel training?
4. is feeding/drinking schedule too rigid for a pup this age (he drinks a lot)?
5. Should he be on-leash while outside until he voids, then allow off leash or ok to just let him go until he "goes"?

I will guarantere many more posts as Cooper and I learn together.Trying very hard to let him be a pup for now and not to revert to old school tactics, especially with a Britt. If anyone is willing to help a new, eager dog "trainer" by allowing me to bounce ideas off of, PM me and I will send my contact information

[moxie]

...

1. Is expecting him to NOT void at all in his crate from 11Pm to approximnately 5-5:30 unrealistic at this point?
2. Having the crate outside our bedroom (where I will want it eventually) OK or should he still be able to see me until older?
3. Crating during the day required, or ok to let him sleep under my desk? detrimental to house breaking/kennel training?
4. is feeding/drinking schedule too rigid for a pup this age (he drinks a lot)?
5. Should he be on-leash while outside until he voids, then allow off leash or ok to just let him go until he "goes"?

...

I am totally new to this, but I was in a similar situation with our pup 12 weeks ago, so I will share what helped me and maybe someone more experienced will agree or tell me I was an idiot and got lucky.
Either way I hope it helps.

1. We were very fortunate in that Bullet never went in his crate. I think he just had iron bowels/bladder and we had good timing. At that age I was still setting an alarm for 2:30-3:00am though to go let him out, whether he was whining or not. I think I kept that up until at least 11-12 weeks and started stretching it out. I had heard a general guideline was Age in Months plus 1 for the number of hours your could expect the dog to hold. This is inconvenient of course, and a pain in the butt, but eventually he will sleep through the night, and you will be making sweet, sweet progress. At 22 weeks Bullet has not had an accident in the house for about 4 weeks. Finally.

2. We kept the crate in the laundry room with the door closed to give him distance from the first night on. We were worried that if he could easily smell, see or hear us it would stretch out the process. He cried before sleep in the crate for 1-2 weeks, and eventually stopped. Now he sleeps on the opposite end of the floor our room is on, and loves his crate. We wanted him to be independent, and whether or not this has helped i don't know. But i do think the distance helped him learn that he had to deal with it, and accept the crate.

3. I don't have any experience with this really. My wife comes home for lunch so he was always only in the crate for 4 hours before someone came and let him out. When i worked from home occasionally I would crate him for an hour or two, just to help him stay used to his room and to let him know that every time he was in the crate it wasnt going to be for hours. We would even sometimes crate for 5-15 minutes. Hopefully someone more experienced can chime in as well.

4. We were on the exact same schedule from the moment we got him, and we are on the same schedule now. We leave his water dish down all the time now, but we used to pick it up two hours before bedtime. I personally think feedings should be a consistent times, and three feedings a day made our vet happy.

5. We wanted Bullet to go on a specific side of the yard, so we would have a lead on and make sure we went directly to that spot, at first I would carry him out there and then after a week or two we started walking. I would then walk him in that area until we got a void. We wanted to create the idea that there were times when going outside meant he was there to pee or poop, not mess around. Especially for those 3am rounds! After a few weeks we could let him out and he would go to his spot and relieve. Now I can take him outside and go to his spot and within a minute or two he still pees. We always praised him when he went in the right area. If my neighbors heard me, they probably wondered what that weird guy was doing at 3am.

Our cardinal rule for the crate was that we never acknowledged any bad behavior in the crate. If he was making any noise or farting around he did not get let out. If he could sit or stand calmly we would let him out. Sometimes that meant being late for something when we were trying to get out of the house, but it was worth it. He makes no noise in his kennel, and he is always calm when its time to get out.

We also used a trick where we would randomly place treats in the crate, this got him going in there on his own in case there might be a treat in there!

Crate training is tough, I think you are on the right track from what I experienced. Just remember the crying is pure theatrics, and the crate must be his happy place for it to be truly successful.

[whatsnext]

At 10 weeks he can only make it a few hours at most without messing so keep that in mind and plan accordingly, my youngest britt who is 6 months old now took about three weeks to calm down in his crate but know when i say"IN" or bedtime he just goes right in his crate and waits for me to shut the door, it just takes time. If i were you i would let him out of his crate at least every three hours for now and if he cant make it that long try two but do not let him out if he is having a fit.

As far as his enthusiasm to come when called at his age i would only try and call him when nothing else has his attention and remember he is just a pup. As far as being on a leash the way i handle that is when they get to an age when i can not head them off not chase them, it is time for a cc.

[shags]

If your puppy can't wait 30 minutes after his meal to relieve himself, why don't you take him out at 10, 15, or 20 minutes?

Little 10 week old puppies don't always have the capacity to adjust to our schedules, so it works out for us to adjust to theirs for a while.


Go over here to the Coverdog Site http://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/ and run a search for Ryan Frames' puppy book. It's really good and full of commom sense no-drama information about how to give a pup a good start both physically and mentally. Unlike a lot of books, it deals with little baby puppy issues and I think it might help you.

Good luçk with your pup!

Edited to add, here, I did it for you! http://members4.boardhost.com/coverdogf ... 30724.html

[Hoosierdaddy]

Consistancy for your puppy is the main objective right now.Pups at 10 weeks old have to do their buisness every 2-3 hours,so if you dont want him messing his crate you need to take him out every 2-3 hours.It is not fun,but the results are rewarding.Will you be a zombie for a month or so ? Yes.

I should take 3-4 weeks before he will be pawing the door to get out to do his buisness.About that time you will get your first night of undisturbed sleep.

Keep an eye on that rascal when he is not in his crate.Brittany pups can be evil,they love to destroy stuff.My wife has lost 4 or 5 pairs of flip-flops since we got our two pups in October.

We made it having two pups in the house at the same time.So you only have half the problem.LOL

[SafetyChain]

UPDATE- So this morning I got up around 5:30. Cooper went down around 11. Before I went to bed, I filled in his crate to make it much smaller. He had just enough room to sit/stand/lie down. He pooped again, up against the box. Ok, he is telling he doesn't want to (by the fact it was as far out of the way as possible) but that I didn't let him out so he had no choice. My Bad. I learned. It's too early to expect a full night (also reinforced by the above posts). Made the mental decision to be better and get up. No problem. BTW- Last feeding was 5:30 last night.

THEN, after he goes out side immediately, does both functions, come back in, plays a little, two more trips outside with in an hour, urination both times. I have to get ready for work, so in the kennel. Usual dramatics. I'm in/out of the shower and dressed in under 20 minutes. Come back down the stairs.... there is that smell. ARGH!! He has crapped in the kennel again and is sitting in it. His stool is firm.

How do I not interpret this as an act of defiance?- "You put me in here so I am going to crap because I know you don't like it!" Can a dog become accepting of poop in his bed? Is there something I can add/spray in the kennel to dissuade this? His behavior otherwise is very acceptable. He has not urinated in the house or his bed.

Today we are adding the leash on my belt loop all day. That way he can be out of kennel except later when wife and I need to be away for a few hours. He will ride in the truck as I run errands this afternoon.

[shags]

If you're of the mindset that a baby puppy is out to spite you, you're gonna be in for a heck of a time training now and later on. His little brain is barely able to keep him going with functions that keep him alive, much less think of ways to get back at you.

You stick him in a crate. He becomes frantic and overstimulated. That leads to stimulation of his bowels. He poops. It's physiological at this point, not a moral decision on his part. :roll:


It's aggravating puppy stuff. Some get over it sooner than others. But eventually they all get over it. Well, most of them. Try working on making crate time pleasant rather than dog jail...put him in there with a toy and leave the door open, feed him in there with the door open, etc. Keep the crate accessible all the time in your living areas so he can retreat to it but not be isolated. Pretty soon it will become a happy or at least neutral place for him. Something else to think about is when your pup is just hanging out with you, don't give him constant attention. Keep a quiet eye on him so he doesn't get into trouble, but don't fuss over him a lot. Let him have a little bit of independence in your presence. If you continually fuss, separation anxiety issues can pop up.

There's no sure fire cure except maybe time. In the meanwhile, expect the cleanup operations and give yourself a little extra time so that you're not too awfully stressed getting off to work.

[whatsnext]

He is not being defiant it is a big adjustment to be taken away from mom and siblings and then left in a crate all alone, it will get better in a short time although it may seem like it takes forever. Sometimes i think they get themselves so worked up they loose control of some functions but as he gets used to being in his crate it will get better. With my new pups i get up every 2 too 3 hours or until i hear them moving around BEFORE they start to whine and over time the duration's get longer and longer you just have to learn as you go.

[Hoosierdaddy]

I have never had a pup crap his crate unless it was my fault,however i have read here that there are others that had this problem.I would clean his crate spotless.We have old blankets and towels we use for the dogs to lie on.I have a pup with some vomiting issues,when she pukes in her crate she does not want to go back in there.We put fresh blankets in she is good to go.

I doubt that your pup is trying to teach you a lesson,right now he has bad manners,or something might be wrong with him physically,or he might have separation problems.Puppies usually have worms,could be that.

I do think if he is raising heck in his crate it could be the seperation thing.How much does the pup get to run? One thing that is an absolute,is a tired Brittany is a good Brittany.These are high energy dogs that need lots and i do mean lots of exercise.To give you an idea,my pups are 9 months old,they are outside at least 6 hrs a day.If the weather is cool they wil chase butterflies,birds,chipmunks for hours on end.They are exhausting for me to watch at times.When i call them in they sleep hard.

I have 3/4 acre fenced yard,so my mutts can run around out there.if you dont have that option,take your pup somewhere that he can romp.He wont run off.If he looses sight of you he will come looking for you.

[SafetyChain]

His kennel is in the family room. When we are there watch TV, surf the iPad, read etc we let him free roam (with a very watchful eye) and the door is always open. He does go in there on his own, if just to sniff around. He has not gone there and just laid down. He mostly plays with his toys or the Yorkie or sleeps (sometimes in my lap). I have noticed in the last few days he has been more aware of my presence (or not) and stayed by my side. So I am gathering we are developing a separation anxiety issue. However, the only time he poops in his kennel is over night or first time back in the kennel for the day. When we leave or if he is in the kennel any other time of day, he doesn't do it.

Earlier I said I was trying the leash on the belt loop. Will this aggravate separation anxiety when he does have to go back in his kennel? Also, I will thoroughly clean the kennel before he goes back in to ensure all scent of previous accidents are removed.

Probably sound like a complete idiot, but I am willing to take that hit to train a great dog.

[SafetyChain]

Just had a thought.... when he has his accidents is also the same times the Yorkie goes upstairs to sleep. Maybe as much as I would like to think it is separation from me it is really from the Yorkie. Have to test that theory.

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

Just had a thought.... when he has his accidents is also the same times the Yorkie goes upstairs to sleep. Maybe as much as I would like to think it is separation from me it is really from the Yorkie. Have to test that theory.

Could be a big part of it. Be sure to spend plenty of time with the pup separate from your Yorkie. Don't allow him to become the Yorkie's dog. Also be sure to always take the pup outside immediately after he comes out of the kennel, and right after feeding him. Praise him each time he eliminates outside.

Nate

[SafetyChain]

We figured out the anxiety. Not me or the Yorkie, but the crate itself. Perceived as doggie jail. So we reset this process. We are figuring this out.

I love it when a plan ends better than expected. Last night, in resetting the crate training, I decided to sleep on the couch next to the crate. Night was going fine. At some point I hear the door make a noise. Just thought it was Cooper turning around and bumping the door. I awake around 5:30, look into the crate- no dog?!. Ok, wife must have let him out. I am known as a sound sleeper. But no, I see him lying in the dog bed on the other side of the room. First thought, great! look for the accidents. Didn't find any, woohoo!!. Let him outside, he does his business. He come back in. I'm making coffee, he tries to climb a gate into another room, never done that before. I let him out, he does the other half.

Still need to fix the crate problem and I know one time does make make total success. But I am very happy with him this morning and hopeful for the future. Much different morning than yesterday so far. I appreciate all the insight and willingness to help. Cooper and I are learning together, I just hope I can keep up with him

[ScottE]

Be patient with your pup. You need to think of things from the dogs perspective. He's 10 weeks old and has the bladder control of an infant he wont be able to have full control over himself for a few moths. They're still babies until about a year old so just be patient with him and enjoy him as a puppy. They grow up quick. Post some pictures of him for us all to see too!