Using an ecollar to deter chasing song birds

[Nozzer]

My 1 year old Brittany is showing his true colors and doing a great job finding game birds and holding point in the field. He still has issues though with the song birds and frequently feels inclined to try chasing them into the next county. I recently got the SportDog 425 e-collar to re-enforce the come command and ranging but have found it's useful deterring him from chasing song birds as well. Based on your guys' experience, is this going to have any impact on his prey drive and specifically pointing game birds? Thanks

[ezzy333]

Sure could but you won't know till it is too late. That's why most trainers don't do that. May I ask why does that bother you when the pup is doing so good? He is a big pup!

Ezzy

[Nozzer]

For the most part I don't want him distracted and ranging too far from me. He's doing a great job now staying in close but I'll absolutely lose him on songbirds. I'm also concerned it's a habit he won't break if it's not nipped in the bud eventually. If you have other suggestions besides an ecollar to do the job, I'm open to it, I don't want to quell his prey drive but I don't want to lose my pooch either.

[ezzy333]

For the most part I don't want him distracted and ranging too far from me. He's doing a great job now staying in close but I'll absolutely lose him on songbirds. I'm also concerned it's a habit he won't break if it's not nipped in the bud eventually. If you have other suggestions besides an ecollar to do the job, I'm open to it, I don't want to quell his prey drive but I don't want to lose my pooch either.

I have never seen a good pup NOT chase little birds and have never seen an adult dog that does when hunting. Also have never tried to correct a pup from doing what it is bred to do and have never lost one. All I am trying to say is you are worrying about a non-issue and definitely riding the edge trying to correct a non-problem that is unnecessary. Dogs learn to hunt what you do and if you ignore the song birds it will to as soon as you get it on the birds you are hunting. Till then, a bird dog is going to hunt and probably chase songbirds. That is just what they do.

Ezzy

[whoadog]

my program for an older dog that is taking the tweety bird thing too far is to let him chase. once he has given it his all for 30 seconds or so, i give him a command (recall, or change of direction). then if he does not follow the command, i give him a buzz. so, the punishment is related to ignoring a known command and not for chasing a bird. seems to work pretty well for me.

[cmc274]

For the most part I don't want him distracted and ranging too far from me. He's doing a great job now staying in close but I'll absolutely lose him on songbirds. I'm also concerned it's a habit he won't break if it's not nipped in the bud eventually. If you have other suggestions besides an ecollar to do the job, I'm open to it, I don't want to quell his prey drive but I don't want to lose my pooch either.

I have never seen a good pup NOT chase little birds and have never seen an adult dog that does when hunting. Also have never tried to correct a pup from doing what it is bred to do and have never lost one. All I am trying to say is you are worrying about a non-issue and definitely riding the edge trying to correct a non-problem that is unnecessary. Dogs learn to hunt what you do and if you ignore the song birds it will to as soon as you get it on the birds you are hunting. Till then, a bird dog is going to hunt and probably chase songbirds. That is just what they do.

Ezzy

Ezzy hit the nail on the head. If you start using an ecollar for that purpose, you are more likely to cause problems.

[Nozzer]

Thanks for the heads up guys, from here on out I'll only use the ecollar for come command. Certainty don't want to hurt his prey drive and since it's only happened twice I'm sure the impact will be minimal.

[jimbo&rooster]

Yup, Id say ezzy is right on here. I've not seen many young dogs that didn't chase tweeties, and haven't seen many that didn't grow out of it ...... for the most part......

I'm a little curious, you mentioned him getting to far away, and said that was your concern. What do you expect from your dog as far as range? I wonder if you are hacking him back in and he is getting bored, I have one that if I keep him hacked back he will mouse and chase tweety birds much more than if I let him roll.

Jim

[Nozzer]

Yup, Id say ezzy is right on here. I've not seen many young dogs that didn't chase tweeties, and haven't seen many that didn't grow out of it ...... for the most part......

I'm a little curious, you mentioned him getting to far away, and said that was your concern. What do you expect from your dog as far as range? I wonder if you are hacking him back in and he is getting bored, I have one that if I keep him hacked back he will mouse and chase tweety birds much more than if I let him roll.

Jim

I'm blessed to work for an 800 acre tree farm so I have plenty of open space and coverage to work my dog. That being said when I say run off, I mean a song bird will fly 20 acres and take my dog chasing him even with a check cord before I catch him 10 minutes later. As far as range 100 yards at most is my preference right now. I want him close and visible where I work him. Could be he is getting bored and needs more ranging distance.

[mask]

For the most part I don't want him distracted and ranging too far from me. He's doing a great job now staying in close but I'll absolutely lose him on songbirds. I'm also concerned it's a habit he won't break if it's not nipped in the bud eventually. If you have other suggestions besides an ecollar to do the job, I'm open to it, I don't want to quell his prey drive but I don't want to lose my pooch either.

I have never seen a good pup NOT chase little birds and have never seen an adult dog that does when hunting. Also have never tried to correct a pup from doing what it is bred to do and have never lost one. All I am trying to say is you are worrying about a non-issue and definitely riding the edge trying to correct a non-problem that is unnecessary. Dogs learn to hunt what you do and if you ignore the song birds it will to as soon as you get it on the birds you are hunting. Till then, a bird dog is going to hunt and probably chase songbirds. That is just what they do.

Ezzy

Yep, I would not shock a pup for chasing a tweety. 20 acres is only a couple hundred yards. Work on him to come when called and what you perceve to be a problem won't be.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Pups eventually out grow this puppy habit. Let him chase and have fun. eventually he will get bored with trash birds and focus on upland game. Too many new guys get trigger happy with the ecollar and think it is the answer for everything. I know I did when I first started out and messed up my first pup royally. Let your pup range, and just teach him to come and go with you. You don't want a VELCRO dog, they can't get out from under the handlers thumb to find birds.

Just my humble opinion based on my own mistakes of the past.

[Nozzer]

Will do, thanks for the advice guys. You've saved me a lot of hassle before I got ahead of myself.

[Trekmoor]

I have never seen a good pup NOT chase little birds and have never seen an adult dog that does when hunting.

Ezzy

You have got me real worried Ezzy ! My present Brittany pup never chases a flying bird of any kind and yet I have never corrected her or trained her not to. She is now 8 months old and she just does what she does which is to hunt out to 70-100 yards at a good pace flushing tweety birds as she goes and stopping to point the gamebirds that hold for her still too clumsy and boisterous approach to them. She loses interest within a few seconds of them flying off and just takes off hunting to try to find another one. She is the only hunting dog I have ever owned that does not and never has chased at least a few flying birds. Very odd behaviour, I agree, but I think she has got it sussed inside her head.

She chased rabbits for all she was worth until just 2 days ago. She then chased a number of rabbits without catching any and began to give up with the rabbits still within plain view of her. She just broke off the chase and went hunting to find another rabbit. I think she has taught herself not to bother too much about chasing rabbits because, like flying birds, they cannot be caught ? She is the only dog of any breed I have ever owned to have learned not to chase rabbits without any kind of correction from me. She is a bit of an odd-bod but her self-taught behaviour saves me a lot of work !

Two days ago she gave chase to a rabbit that had ran right past her nose. She went out of sight after it behind some light cover about 30-40 yards from me. I have never taught her to stop to whistle during any kind of chase but a railway track was fairly nearby so I blew stop even though I could not see her. When I got far enough to see around the cover she was sitting out in the open just waiting for me to turn up.
I have had a lot of dogs of my own and a lot of other peoples dogs to train too but I have never had any dog behave as she does. I am greatly looking forward to seeing how she does as a gundog when she grows up. I really do not know if she will be a brilliant worker or a bit of a dud.

Bill T.

[KK&S]

Some will chase some wont. I have a 4 year old broke female Brit that drove me nuts the first few trials because she would chase the song birds for ever. Then she started doing stop to flush with them (still frustrating because I had to ride to her and release her every time). Now she's grown out of it and doesn't pay any attention to them when running. Ezzy is right, it shows great drive and you don't want that taken out. As your pup matures (Brits mature a little slower) it should phase out. Just let the pup have fun now and work on a strong recall. I like the idea of changing direction while the pup is chasing, while singing to get the pups attention.

[madmurph]

Nozzer, it's quite common for a young dog to chase the song birds. After time he will learn that he can't catch them and will eventually ignore them and spend his energy on game birds. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Keep training him with game birds and pigeons and he will get past it. You have a great thing going there with 800 acres on which to run your dogs. I am quite envious.

[roaniecowpony]

When my lab was young, she would chase game birds after the flush and my inevitable missed shots. I kept working on my recall whistle in barren fields until I felt that was reliable. When in the hunting field, if she gave chase to a game bird, I gave a recall whistle and followed with a e-collar correction if she didn't turn off the bird. This worked for my lab.

For non-game birds, I simply ignored her flushing and chasing of them early in her hunting. It was only a few hunting trips out that she learned non-game birds were not of interest to me nor should she be interested. I never shot a non-game bird or rabbit she flushed or chased. It worked for my lab.