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Putting Pigeons to sleep

Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby asimon » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:49 pm

Alright, so its been awhile. Here is my question, when i put the pigeons to sleep and lay them down and let my GSP out, she walks right up to them and they dont wake up, am i dizzying them too much? Should i wait a few minutes before i let the dog out? If i do will the pigeons fly away before she even gets out? Thanks in advance!!
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby Del Lolo » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:51 pm

Just use a properly wing-clipped bird -- or card them.
Then you don't have to worry about dizzying them.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby asimon » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:57 pm

Tried the carding thing, i dont think the birds i had were hard flying enough, my dog would just catch up to them and they were low flying lol silly dog :lol:. I know its something im doing wrong just have to figure it out. I think i will try and clip the wings like you suggested, thats a good idea
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby Gertie » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:04 pm

The best luck I had was to have a helper and have the dog on a check cord. Run the dog out perpendicular to the bird and when it goes on point have one person hold the check cord and the other flush. It usually just takes a little boot under the tail to wake the bird up and have it fly off. Maybe this is obvious and not much help but I tried doing everything myself and it was kindof a mess. Good luck.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby deseeker » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:07 pm

If your dog is catching carded pigeons---it will also catch birds that have their flight feathers clipped. Take your dog in on a check cord to keep it from catching the birds and have a helper kick the birds up(if you are going to use slept birds)
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby polmaise » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:59 pm

asimon wrote:Alright, so its been awhile. Here is my question, when i put the pigeons to sleep and lay them down and let my GSP out, she walks right up to them and they dont wake up, am i dizzying them too much? Should i wait a few minutes before i let the dog out? If i do will the pigeons fly away before she even gets out? Thanks in advance!!

Hmmmm!
Now bare with me here!?..because I'm just a dumb "bleep" redneck from darkest deepest Fife.
If the dog is walking right up to them , It ain't Hunting for them? It's just walking right up to them.?
Question 1. Are you asking how to put pigeons to sleep?
Question 2. Are you asking how to use a dizzied pigeon for your dog to point ?
Question 3. Are you asking how to use a dizzied pigeon for your dog to flush?
Question 4.Has the dog been hunted on game that has not been ''put to sleep''?
Seriously like to help,but I just don't get it?.....Mine just let rip on game ground and the game do the rest. But I appreciate that may not be the best for everyone. :)
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby CDN_Cocker » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:09 pm

Any time I've dizzied a pigeon it's ready to fly almost immediately. You must be the pigeon whisperer lol
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby Del Lolo » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:27 pm

asimon wrote:Tried the carding thing, i dont think the birds i had were hard flying enough, my dog would just catch up to them and they were low flying lol silly dog :lol:. I know its something im doing wrong just have to figure it out. I think i will try and clip the wings like you suggested, thats a good idea


So, it sounds like your dog isn't steady to flush - right?
Until your dog is steady to flush / shot / fall, get that dog on a check cord.

To properly 'wing-clip' : Just pull the primary flight feathers out of ONE wing.
The pigeon will be able to take flight, but will fly in kind of a circle and come back to earth.

.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby polmaise » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:35 pm

If the bird (pigeon) wing clipped ,comes back down to earth with a dog that walks out to the bird, what will the dog do /Do you think?
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby ezzy333 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:39 pm

There are lots of ways to dizzy a pigeon but if you don't want them to sound asleep I just put their head under a wing and sway them back an forth a few times and lay them on their side that you have the head tucked under.

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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby Del Lolo » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:40 pm

polmaise wrote:If the bird (pigeon) wing clipped ,comes back down to earth with a dog that walks out to the bird, what will the dog do /Do you think?


Depends on how far along in training the dog is.
Also whether it's on a check cord or not.

If the dog is steady to flush / shot / fall, you can "shoot" the bird with a blank and then send the dog for the retrieve.
An average wing-clip will usually flush about 3 times before it becomes too tired to fly again.

.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby polmaise » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:48 pm

ezzy333 wrote:There are lots of ways to dizzy a pigeon but if you don't want them to sound asleep I just put their head under a wing and sway them back an forth a few times and lay them on their side that you have the head tucked under.

Ezzy

swaying the head back an forth ezzy333 I agree will make the ''sleep'' . er 'Dizzy' more than if you didn't?.......But will that 'stop the dog from walking up to it'?
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby ezzy333 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:49 pm

polmaise wrote:If the bird (pigeon) wing clipped ,comes back down to earth with a dog that walks out to the bird, what will the dog do /Do you think?

The question the OP had was how tp put a pigeon to sleep. Don't think he was wanting a brow-beating because his pup isn't broke.

Del Lolo » 13 minutes ago



asimon wrote:Tried the carding thing, i dont think the birds i had were hard flying enough, my dog would just catch up to them and they were low flying lol silly dog :lol:. I know its something im doing wrong just have to figure it out. I think i will try and clip the wings like you suggested, thats a good idea


So, it sounds like your dog isn't steady to flush - right?
Until your dog is steady to flush / shot / fall, get that dog on a check cord.

To properly 'wing-clip' : Just pull the primary flight feathers out of ONE wing.
The pigeon will be able to take flight, but will fly in kind of a circle and come back to earth.


And what is the primary wing feathers? I always thought wing clipping referred to clipping the feathers and not pulling them. But again, this has little to do with putting a bird to sleep.

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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby polmaise » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:52 pm

Del Lolo wrote:
polmaise wrote:If the bird (pigeon) wing clipped ,comes back down to earth with a dog that walks out to the bird, what will the dog do /Do you think?


Depends on how far along in training the dog is.
Also whether it's on a check cord or not.

If the dog is steady to flush / shot / fall, you can "shoot" the bird with a blank and then send the dog for the retrieve.
An average wing-clip will usually flush about 3 times before it becomes too tired to fly again.

.

Apologies , Del Lolo'...This dog according to the OP', 'Is walking up to the planted bird'?..Hmm! :roll: ....So I would say ?..Might be wrong?...> but it ain't at that level yet?...otherwise it would not be walking up to the bird?...? what you say? :wink:
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby CDN_Cocker » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:54 pm

polmaise wrote:If the bird (pigeon) wing clipped ,comes back down to earth with a dog that walks out to the bird, what will the dog do /Do you think?

If it's a good one it'll pick it up and bring it to you. Then again, I'm a spaniel man. My avatar pic is my pup with a clipped wing in his mouth. That bird is alive and well and has been chased down and caught a few times.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby ezzy333 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:55 pm

polmaise wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:There are lots of ways to dizzy a pigeon but if you don't want them to sound asleep I just put their head under a wing and sway them back an forth a few times and lay them on their side that you have the head tucked under.

Ezzy

swaying the head back an forth ezzy333 I agree will make the ''sleep'' . er 'Dizzy' more than if you didn't?.......But will that 'stop the dog from walking up to it'?


Nope, but that wasn't what he asked. He will need a check cord or a launcher probably to get the pup to point or just give it time to figure it out on it's own. But it would be best that the pup doesn't catch the bird so if he can dizzy it properly the bird should be ready to fly when the pup gets there. I believe that is what he is asking.

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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby polmaise » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:59 pm

polmaise wrote:
asimon wrote:Alright, so its been awhile. Here is my question, when i put the pigeons to sleep and lay them down and let my GSP out, she walks right up to them and they dont wake up, am i dizzying them too much? Should i wait a few minutes before i let the dog out? If i do will the pigeons fly away before she even gets out? Thanks in advance!!

Hmmmm!
Now bare with me here!?..because I'm just a dumb "bleep" redneck from darkest deepest Fife.
If the dog is walking right up to them , It ain't Hunting for them? It's just walking right up to them.?
Question 1. Are you asking how to put pigeons to sleep?
Question 2. Are you asking how to use a dizzied pigeon for your dog to point ?
Question 3. Are you asking how to use a dizzied pigeon for your dog to flush?
Question 4.Has the dog been hunted on game that has not been ''put to sleep''?
Seriously like to help,but I just don't get it?.....Mine just let rip on game ground and the game do the rest. But I appreciate that may not be the best for everyone. :)

?
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby DonF » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:10 pm

Lacking a launcher, you do not want to put bird to sleep for a loose dog that's not solid on it's point's. Do so and you invite the dog to take out the bird. What you need to do, and the dog should be well along, is to dizzy the bird. Hold it upside down and spin it's head in circles. When it's neck get's rubbery and it's holding it crooked a bit and blinking, throw the bird down into cover. You should get +/- ten minutes to get the dog back to the bird. If the bird leaves to soon, go on like nothing happened to the next bird. I would not put down more than three. Problem being the time spread and pigeon's leaving before you get there that might not if it hadn't taken so long to get around.

Do not put the birds to sleep but if you do, do as Gertie said, get a helper. If you have birds down asleep the dog needs to be under physical control of the handler. The handle then brings the dog to the bird cross wind but he also has to be aware of where he and the dog are in relation to the bird. Allow the dog enough CC to reach the bird and it just might, just what you don't want. On the Cc when your dog make's scent, start quickly toward and behind the dog, keep the cc taunt. The idea is to keep the dog from moving toward the bird all you can. If you come in cross wind, and you should, when the dog scents the bird, it can move to the left or right as the case may be. The only way you can stop the dog with the cc for sure is to have the dog directly between you and the bird. You have to know where the bird is for sure. You have to know the direction of the wind for sure. You have to pay close attention to your dog, 100% of the time. The scent cone will widen as it get's away from the bird and when your dog hit's that, you have to be ready to get behind him and get him stopped as soon as you can. It's not near as difficult as it may sound but lacking remote release traps it is the only way I would consider starting out a dog. Control all the situation you can while leaving the game to the dog and the bird. It won't be all the dog and bird as you can set up with remotes but get yourself out of it all you can while helping your dog learn.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby asimon » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:30 pm

Thanks for all the advice! Im gonna get some more birds. I know the best thing is to get a bunch of exposure to wild birds but i dont have access the them here that i have found yet. Thanks again!!
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby DonF » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:32 pm

asimon wrote:Thanks for all the advice! Im gonna get some more birds. I know the best thing is to get a bunch of exposure to wild birds but i dont have access the them here that i have found yet. Thanks again!!


Some say that's the best thing, I don't. If you can control the bird and the dog you can teach the dog better and faster. You cannot control a wild bird neither can you be assured of where they are. Then when the dog is doing what you want on training birds, you can take it for wild birds. The dog will then have something to draw on beyond breeding.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby big_fish » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:30 am

I would think about getting a launcher. Gun Dog Supply has a few reasonably priced ones I know they seem pricy but well worth the money and you can set up your own wild bird situations.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby Del Lolo » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:19 am

ezzy333 wrote:And what is the primary wing feathers? I always thought wing clipping referred to clipping the feathers and not pulling them. But again, this has little to do with putting a bird to sleep.

Ezzy


The primaries are the long tough strong ones that go out to make the tip of the wing. They are the main flight feathers.
Then (closer to the body) come the secondary flight feathers. they are shorter and more pliable.
If a bird is young or not well flight conditioned, just pulling the primaries is enough. With an older flight conditioned bird, you may need to pull 3 or 4 of the secondaries too.

If you just cut them off, they won't grow back in until the next moult. If you pull them they will start to grow back right away.
If the bird is going to be sacrificed, cutting them is fine. If the bird is going to be kept alive for future use, pulling them works better.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby ezzy333 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:08 am

I think a better way to describe it is the birds have 10 primary flight feathers on each wing. If you pulled all of those I don't think the bird could fly at all. I pull the last two on my young birds sometimes depending on their age and it slows them down so they won't over fly the first few times out. Also it will help keep a full wing when we are racing them. But if I pull three they are severely handicapped and that is our goal. I think you may be confusing the first five primary flights with secondary ones.

Just spread the wing and count in 10 feathers and those are primary. The next feathers would be secondary and you can see the different shape of those feathers. I would never pull more than three or four of those feathers just to slow the bird down so it won't fly away. I admit, I have never done that so if I am wrong, I am sorry, but pulling all ten of the primaries would make the bird unable to fly.

By the way, it is right that if you cut or clip the feathers they will usually not lose those till they moult but if you pull them a new feather will start right away and be back in a few weeks.

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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby DoubleBarrel GunDogs » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:30 am

I think you handled that and answered it pretty well ezzy. I tend to incorrectly call all handicapped birds, clip wings. Whether I pull a few primaries, cut them short or temporarily tie them with a rubber band or Velcro. All of these methods work depending on your situation. Pulling feathers is probably the easiest and most reliable method, with a little practice.

Concerning the op question. Dizzying is not technically putting the bird to sleep, just to be clear. Tucking the head under the wing and planting it with that wing down is. Try placing the bird, and folding the grass over it. They tend to stay asleep a bit longer that way.

I agree with the posters who say you don't want a pointing dog rooting out birds. I feel that a lock wing pigeon is the best option. Bring the dog in with a check cord perpendicular to the scent cone. When he points, either launch a bird with a remote launcher or have an assistant step ahead of the dog and throw a bird. That way you have control of the dog and the situation.

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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby DonF » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:30 pm

And how do you get a locked wing bird into a trap? And if you do somehow, how does it fly when it is released? Locking the wings is folding the wings so the bird can't move them.
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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby DoubleBarrel GunDogs » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:28 pm

[quote="DonF"]And how do you get a locked wing bird into a trap? And if you do somehow, how does it fly when it is released? Locking the wings is folding the wings so the bird can't move them.[/quote.

Brush the lock wing against the surrounding cover (which will help distribute more bird scent to the area), and then drop it on the ground. The lock wing will be used as the scent bird. The launchers are loaded with flyers, and are ideally placed away from the scent cone. Sorry, I didn't articulate that very well the first time around.

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Re: Putting Pigeons to sleep

Postby bonasa » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:14 pm

DonF wrote:Lacking a launcher, you do not want to put bird to sleep for a loose dog that's not solid on it's point's. Do so and you invite the dog to take out the bird. What you need to do, and the dog should be well along, is to dizzy the bird. Hold it upside down and spin it's head in circles. When it's neck get's rubbery and it's holding it crooked a bit and blinking, throw the bird down into cover. You should get +/- ten minutes to get the dog back to the bird. If the bird leaves to soon, go on like nothing happened to the next bird. I would not put down more than three. Problem being the time spread and pigeon's leaving before you get there that might not if it hadn't taken so long to get around.


Great advice. I spin them less and have very spooky birds, lots of stop to flushes and 1/3 of the birds are not there when I get back. Launchers are a pain in the neck when you have to space them out, work the dog and then pick the back up.
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