pace problems

[LtsHnt]

any tips, tricks or ideas on increasing the pace at which my 13mo old V hunts. to be perfectly honest at times she does very good, covers alot of ground with good but not too much pace. however it takes a one or two bird contacts to get there. but other times she seems very interested in ground sent and slows down or is overly concerned of my locations (which i know is typical of the vizsla). this usually occurs when bird contacts are low. i dont pressure her and let her do her thing. however when i help run other dogs they seem to just tear through the field....i dont need her to have that kind of pace. im happy with a bit slower pace but still feel she could pick it up a bit. would it help running her with other faster paced dogs? (not sure if she has a backs naturally or not yet), just keep training the way i have been and with more bird contacts maybe she will pick it up?. she is young yet and i have heard talk of vizslas taking a couple years at times to get "there". anyway just sittin here thinkin and thought perhaps i could get some help. maybe someone has trained or owned a similar dog.

[gonehuntin']

You could try continually salting field, but I really think with the dog's age, you're worried about nothing. First, a V is no English Pointer, they are slower and more methodical. You have to wait for the dog to mature.

[Ruffshooter]

Ditto: She is young.
Once you get birds into the field or woods on a regular basis and they are away, she will pick up the pace.
Every time she goes to the field she finds birds, that will get her moving and hunting birds better.
But she is young. so don't fret to much.
Keep you mouth closed when she is out running. THe more you try to encourage her or coax her or yack at her the more confused she will be and will shorten up.

[shags]

Another vote for salt the field, and for running her with a bit more experienced dog if you have one available that won't intimidate her. You might also try picking up your pace. If you hang back waiting for her, she's not stretching her comfort zone. Also, keep quiet, don't nag her to get on and hunt 'em up. I've seen dogs like your make a nice move and the owner gets all into praise, only to have the dog run back for a pat and more "Good girl".

I'm reading a book written by a guy who has a name for starting puppies, and he suggests going easy on the obedience lessons as well, especially heeling. He says some pups when feeling insecure, will default to sticking close by if they're taught that your side is a safety zone. Makes sense if you recognize lack of independence in a dog.

Good luck with your pup.

[whoadog]

I have a Vizla that is a personal gundog. She is the slowest maturing dog I have ever had. I can't say if it is this individual dog or the breed in general, but she just turned 3 and seems to have turned a corner as well. She is finally giving me some ground coverage and acting more like a bird dog than a pet. My patience with her looks like it might get rewarded as she handles beautifully and is the most pleasant retriever I have ever had in a pointing dog. Don't get me wrong, I have had dogs that could do it better, but never had one that took such obvious pleasure in the chore. I think the advice already given is good and is actually the course I took. Keep after it, V's are worth the effort.

[Neil]

Another birthday and more bird contact should fix her up. Go easy on her training, it is hard to put something in without taking something out.

[deseeker]

You might try pushing her with an ATV or horse (picking up the pace). If she likes to stay in front of you, she'll increase her speed to stay ahead of the ATV.

[ezzy333]

I just walk faster and urge the pup to stay up front. Do not wait for it but keep walking.

Ezzy

[Trekmoor]

I train a viszla for a neighbour. The bitch is show and pet bred with no F.T. stuff in her pedigree. She is a very good retriever and pointer but ,as others have said about their vizzies , she lacks range and pace most of the time. She is a good dog to hunt among woodlands but not out on wide open fields. She is now 2 years old and is often still very puppyish. If I release my 9 months old Brittany pup and her together , the Brittany takes off to hunt but the viszla takes off to try to play with her ! Since the viszla is very athletically built and very fast ....when she wants to be.....she easily catches up to the brit and sometimes bowls her over. It does my head in so I now never hunt them together. The Brittany is more of a hunter at 9 months than the viszla is at 2 years. If that viszla would run like I know she can I would trial her with every chance of success .....but she doesn't !

Bill T.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

To the OP, Can I ask what the breeding is? It is far too much of a generalization to say that they mature slower then other breeds.

[whoadog]

It is far too much of a generalization to say that they mature slower then other breeds.

Agreed. I am certain your experience is much greater than mine and would love to hear your take on the subject. I've only been associated with 4 so far. Mine was very slow. Her mother never developed at all. A litter-mate was slow. But, her sire was hunting, pointing and retrieving successfully at 9 months. By the time he was 16 months he was a heck of a bird dog. Still, as I recall (he is about 7 now), he really didn't stop making big strides in development until about 3 1/2. He became one of the best gundogs I've ever hunted behind. But, I think my ideas about what "development" means may differ from others. I'm a hunter and what I mean by development has more to do with different situations a dog finds himself in the field and being able to manage them successfully, ie multiple birds running while one sits for the point, recognizing downwind sound as a signal for the presence of a bird and so on. I am guessing that in general you don't see much difference in the maturation rate of your dogs compared to other breeds?

[LtsHnt]

"I have heard talk". I don't have enough experience with training dogs to generalize. And if I have, my mistake. I am trying to find her papers at the moment.

[millerms06]

Another birthday and more bird contact should fix her up. Go easy on her training, it is hard to put something in without taking something out.

Good words to live by....

[ezzy333]

I don't think it is a big deal but every trainer I have ever heard make the same comment, viszlas are slower to mature. That is not always bad. The few I have been involved with were slower, I know, but I have not dealt with enough of them to comment from personal experience.

Ezzy

[Neil]

I have a FC 13year old male Britt with over 40 trial wins and hundreds of wild birds killed over him that has never matured. Still acts like a pup, ripped out some birds last fall for no reason other than to see if they could fly.

Experts claim that the major distinction between wolves and dogs is the failure to mature.

Maturity is over-rated.

Neil

[ezzy333]

I have a FC 13year old male Britt with over 40 trial wins and hundreds of wild birds killed over him that has never matured. Still acts like a pup, ripped out some birds last fall for no reason other than to see if they could fly.

Experts claim that the major distinction between wolves and dogs is the failure to mature.

Maturity is over-rated.

Neil

Don't think so. Maturity doesn't keep a dog from doing the wrong thing, it is a measure of the dogs ability to learn and know right from wrong.

Ezzy

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

The word "maturity" needs to be defined here.

s

[roaniecowpony]

I've only been around a couple V's. A friend has them. The young one didn't look like it would be a hunting dog at all when it was in the 1-2 yr old area and we were on a lot of quail. It just didn't show any interest beyond a casual ho-hum. The dog wouldn't go away from the owner other than to play with my dog, who was trying to ignore it and hunt.

A year or so later, it was a different dog. It was running pretty decent with a good ground covering pattern and was very interested in birds and finding them. I know the owner wasn't responsible for any of the change.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

It is far too much of a generalization to say that they mature slower then other breeds.

Agreed. I am certain your experience is much greater than mine and would love to hear your take on the subject. I've only been associated with 4 so far. Mine was very slow. Her mother never developed at all. A litter-mate was slow. But, her sire was hunting, pointing and retrieving successfully at 9 months. By the time he was 16 months he was a heck of a bird dog. Still, as I recall (he is about 7 now), he really didn't stop making big strides in development until about 3 1/2. He became one of the best gundogs I've ever hunted behind. But, I think my ideas about what "development" means may differ from others. I'm a hunter and what I mean by development has more to do with different situations a dog finds himself in the field and being able to manage them successfully, ie multiple birds running while one sits for the point, recognizing downwind sound as a signal for the presence of a bird and so on. I am guessing that in general you don't see much difference in the maturation rate of your dogs compared to other breeds?

I would love to hear where those dogs came from that you trained.

[millerms06]

You can look at the pedigree of my oldest V Myla. She has tons of energy to burn and hunts like a champ. Tonight she was giving my GSP Morgen a run for her money with how many bird finds they each tallied up. Definitely a fun night to witness.

My daughter's Vizsla is more methodical in nature. She keeps me guessing when she is working on a bird, but it is pretty easy to spot when she is on scent, a pretty staunch little dog. At least with my Vizslas, I consider them keepers.

My buddy has two Vizsla males that by and large have show champions and dual champions in their pedigrees. They range and hunt really well, definitely not boot lickers, and are extremely biddable dogs. The oldest one was doing a very good job on grouse before he was two years old. The other one would have won an area shooting competition challenge this past winter if my buddy would have called me to be his shooting partner

[LtsHnt]

Thanks for the replies. It's good hearing from people who have experience with this breed. I think I'll just keep working with her the way I have been. I'm confident she will continue to progress.

[vizslatrainer]

I have a 4 yo V that hunts slowly until she finds a bird or her bracement finds a bird. She gets real revved up after contact and her pace increases. Its like she doesn't want to waste energy unless birds are there. I have a 1 yo V bitch that hunts hard and fast and big. I never have to urge her to pick up the pace. Both bitches have great pedigrees, the younger one is a little better with dual champions in it. I woudnt worry about it.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I have had one that matured faster then any other dog that I have had but he also seems to be prefering retirement earlier then others. If I had my preference, I would rather have had him mature more slowly. By the same token, I have others that are maturing slower then him that I hope will not get "burned out" so early...Patience...Just don't treat a V like a GSP or EP or Brit.....They have a different disposition and take a different kind of trainer to bring out the most in each dog...

[LtsHnt]

That's reasuring.

[whoadog]

I would love to hear where those dogs came from that you trained.

I got mine from my nephew. It was pick of the litter with his dog (the really good one) and a bitch from one of his co-workers (the one that did not make). I have only been seriously involved in hands on training with my bitch and my nephew's dog. I have been on the periphery with the bitch that whelped my pup and one of my pup's littermates(I still call her pup but she is 3 now). I actually traded a small drywall job for my dog. Knowing her mother, I would not have invested cash in her but, she does seem to be working out now. My nephew got his dog from a breeder between Wichita and Kansas City that turns out a lot of dogs. His friend's bitch came from a small (read that "backyard") breeder in Wichita. I would say that neither dog came from a breeder seriously intent on developing good hunting stock. That's why I am curious about a serious gundog breeder's experience with the breed.

[Neil]

I have had one that matured faster then any other dog that I have had but he also seems to be prefering retirement earlier then others. If I had my preference, I would rather have had him mature more slowly. By the same token, I have others that are maturing slower then him that I hope will not get "burned out" so early...Patience...Just don't treat a V like a GSP or EP or Brit.....They have a different disposition and take a different kind of trainer to bring out the most in each dog...

Got to take exception with the last sentence.

A good trainer modifies his training to fit the dog, not just from breed to breed, but within the breeds. One size does not fit all. I have seen V's that were tough as any pointer and some softer that the softest Britt. Many top GSP handlers are successful with V's.

Neil

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I have had one that matured faster then any other dog that I have had but he also seems to be prefering retirement earlier then others. If I had my preference, I would rather have had him mature more slowly. By the same token, I have others that are maturing slower then him that I hope will not get "burned out" so early...Patience...Just don't treat a V like a GSP or EP or Brit.....They have a different disposition and take a different kind of trainer to bring out the most in each dog...

Got to take exception with the last sentence.

A good trainer modifies his training to fit the dog, not just from breed to breed, but within the breeds. One size does not fit all. I have seen V's that were tough as any pointer and some softer that the softest Britt. Many top GSP handlers are successful with V's.

Neil

While I agree with you on one hand, I disagree on another. So far, I have only heard that they mature slower on this site from people who have limited experience.....On the other hand, there is a reason that very few of the so called "top trainers" will train many of them......I agree that some are tougher than others and there is a reason that they are often called "velcro dogs" but "maturity" can be defined in many ways.

I will stand by my statement that not every trainer can get the most out of this breed no matter how good he/she claims to be. Notice that I said "get the most" not just simply train them.

[ezzy333]

While I agree with you on one hand, I disagree on another. So far, I have only heard that they mature slower on this site from people who have limited experience.....On the other hand, there is a reason that very few of the so called "top trainers" will train many of them......I agree that some are tougher than others and there is a reason that they are often called "velcro dogs" but "maturity" can be defined in many ways.

I will stand by my statement that not every trainer can get the most out of this breed no matter how good he/she claims to be. Notice that I said "get the most" not just simply train them.
Brazosvalleyvizslas Rank: 5X Champion Posts: 806Joined: 29 Sep 2012, 10:20Location: Soon2be, Texas

Very true but could be said about every trainer, every breed, and every dog in those breeds. Trainers and dogs are individuals and are each different.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

While I agree with you on one hand, I disagree on another. So far, I have only heard that they mature slower on this site from people who have limited experience.....On the other hand, there is a reason that very few of the so called "top trainers" will train many of them......I agree that some are tougher than others and there is a reason that they are often called "velcro dogs" but "maturity" can be defined in many ways.

I will stand by my statement that not every trainer can get the most out of this breed no matter how good he/she claims to be. Notice that I said "get the most" not just simply train them.
Brazosvalleyvizslas Rank: 5X Champion Posts: 806Joined: 29 Sep 2012, 10:20Location: Soon2be, Texas

Very true but could be said about every trainer, every breed, and every dog in those breeds. Trainers and dogs are individuals and are each different.

That is exactly what I was trying to say but in your previously post, you stated that V's are slower to mature.....You did however, state that you had limited experience in the breed which was my point.