stopping the chase
- ruffbritt4
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:21 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
stopping the chase
I was wondering if i should blow the whistle while the dog is chasing a bird, if he does not stop can i then use stimulation? Or will this lessen his bird drive. I figure to not shock him without blowing the whistle so he knows he got shocked for not listening, instead of the bird causing the stimulation. Thanks for any help! Also, are there any other ways to stop the chase?
Re: stopping the chase
How old is the dog? Is it a pointing dog? Is the dog whoa broke? I'd be very cautious about stimulation to stop the chase especially if it isn't steady on whoa. The idea is to steady the dog on whoa then slowly introduce birds while giving the command.
- ruffbritt4
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:21 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: stopping the chase
13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.
- displaced_texan
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1003
- Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:57 pm
- Location: Mobilehoma
Re: stopping the chase
No way I'd shock a dog chasing a bird that wasn't what broke.
I have English Pointers because they don't ever grow up either...
- gonehuntin'
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 4867
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
- Location: NE WI.
Re: stopping the chase
Obedience train your dog. Do this so it is not in connection with birds. When the dog will come any place, any time, any where when called, it will be easy to break off of birds with two tweets of the whistle.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
- birddog1968
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:40 pm
- Location: Wherever I may roam
Re: stopping the chase
I take the chase out with a collar, that said its not done in a pointing situation. Its done after stopping the dog (whoa if you like) and dropping a pigeon. Very light taps on a low low setting, with your mouth shut. Done right it will take nothing from the dog as far as desire goes.....Most dogs figure it out in 3 to 6 birds, some take longer. It works but has to be done properly. Since there are no birds being pointed or scent on the ground no bad association is made with pointing or with gamebirds. From there it is an easy progression to get the dog fully broke to wing and shot. I take all mine thru to being fully steady/broke even if I plan on letting them break on the gun, that way its easy to tighten them up when you want/need to.
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
- kninebirddog
- GDF Premier Member!
- Posts: 7846
- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:45 am
- Location: Coolidge AZ
Re: stopping the chase
I like the Rick and Ronnie Smith version of working the chase out of a dog
they first teach the dog a point of contact that means to stop and stand still
then after the dog knows t=what that point of contact is when they bust a bird they are cued to stop ..IE that the cue means stop not a correction for doing something wrong. It is a different way to view a process which I have seen have seen many times over help take the chase out with out taking the style drive or intensity out of the dog.
they first teach the dog a point of contact that means to stop and stand still
then after the dog knows t=what that point of contact is when they bust a bird they are cued to stop ..IE that the cue means stop not a correction for doing something wrong. It is a different way to view a process which I have seen have seen many times over help take the chase out with out taking the style drive or intensity out of the dog.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
- birddog1968
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:40 pm
- Location: Wherever I may roam
Re: stopping the chase
Thats interesting K9, not so terribly different from how I was taught, although the dog is honest and the chase is taken out before there is ever a bird to bust. In that way there is no effect on style of or intensity of the dog when it does begin pointing birds on the ground....
BTW you know the person who taught me the method I use currently
BTW you know the person who taught me the method I use currently
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
-
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 3308
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:47 am
- Location: Central DE
Re: stopping the chase
I agree completely with the above. Stopping the chase is all about obedience and that has(or should have) nothing to do with birds. If the dog disobeys a known command it should be corrected. If the dog has not been thoroughly and completely taught the command...that is job one for the trainer.gonehuntin' wrote:Obedience train your dog. Do this so it is not in connection with birds. When the dog will come any place, any time, any where when called, it will be easy to break off of birds with two tweets of the whistle.
You may well have to step back and do the yardwork necessary to teach that obedience command. Whoa is whoa. it has nothing whatsoever to do with birds. It has to do with the dog stopping...instantly...and growing roots right where it is. Not so much as a toenail should move when a dog is on whoa. Come or here is the same thing...instant response to the command...or you ain't done your job as trainer.
Another version of the same concept is doing heel/whoa drills in the yard. I use a pigging string, some folks use a Wonder lead, some a prong or pinch collar and some use a Buddy stick. Bottom line the dog learns to cue off you and learns to obey.
I know you said that you don't plan to have your dog steady to wing and shot. I would like you to consider initially steadying the dog to wing and shot. It actually makes a bunch of things easier on the dog. It makes it easier for them to learn what to do in the early stages. It also makes it easier for you , as the trainer, to pick up a small failure to comply and correct it, before it becomes a full blown bust and chase. You can always "let is slide" as the dog gets into hunting mode. Heck, the training will slip simply by your failure to reinforce. Something to think about...after you do the yardwork to get the obedience down.
RayG
- ruffbritt4
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:21 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: stopping the chase
Alright, no stimulation. He is solid on whistle recall so I will do that. He is steady to flush, and lets me walk in front to flush the bird, then he chases. I could also plant the birds in the woods, and I heard that the bird will fly then land in briars so the dog can't get it. Anyone ever done this? Thanks for the help guys!
Re: stopping the chase
I always start in the yard. Get the young dog all excited about the birds, wind them up if you will. Then drop the pigeon and the dog will chase. Then I put a checkcord on the dog and attach it too a stake out. The dog has approx. 22 ft. too work with. Set the dog up with about 6ft. loop in the cord and drop a bird in front of him. He will hit the end of the cord and get a correction. I am silent and say nothing. Repeat this as many times as needed, but it usually only takes about 6 pigeons and the dog will not move when the bird is flighted. The dog will stand and watch the bird fly away. I want too make it his idea not too chase. Then I remove the checkcord from the post and move too a different location in the yard. Now I will stand on the cord and repeat the process. If he does it correctly I can move again and will not stand on cord but will be ready to step on it if the dog would break but it hardly ever happens. If it does go back too stepping on it. If the dog has been properly introduced to gunfire I will then blank off the gun, I will either attach the cord or step on it depending on the dog. Now I have a dog that is standing through the drop/flush/blank. I move all over the yard doing this. He has taught himself not too chase and has respect for the checkcord. Now the dog is ready for Whoa training. Once the whoa training is done I will move to the Collar like the Smith method mentioned above and remove the cord. Very easy on the dogs and there is no negative association with the word Whoa. I just repeat the above with the collar. All this takes me about 2 30 min training sessions. Then just overlay this too the field.
Re: stopping the chase
Whoa break the dog, should be done first. Dogs seem to run off cliffs, into rivers roads, etc.13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1103
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935
- ruffbritt4
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:21 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: stopping the chase
Ok, I'm a beginner, but here it goes. How do you know if a dog is "woah broke?" If I tell my dog woah, he immediately stops and stands still until I tell him ok. I will throw things, kick at a bush, have people run around, and he doesn't move. So, how do you tell if a dog is whoa broke?
Re: stopping the chase
If the dog is on whoa and you flush or toss a bird and the dog chases, then that dog is not broke on whoa. Is the your britt collar conditioned?
- ruffbritt4
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:21 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: stopping the chase
He is collar conditioned. How do you break them on woah? Make a lot of distractions?
Re: stopping the chase
Do some whoa drills with a checkcord. Put the dog on whoa and launch or toss some birds. I like to start this drill when the dog whoas close to 100% off lead in the field. The dog needs to associate the correction with the command and not the bird. Might create a blinker if you put the cart before the horse. Hope this helps. Have funruffbritt4 wrote:He is collar conditioned. How do you break them on woah? Make a lot of distractions?
Re: stopping the chase
What are you training him for?ruffbritt4 wrote:13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.
- ruffbritt4
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:21 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: stopping the chase
I am training him for grouse and woodcock, if that is what you mean.polmaise wrote:What are you training him for?ruffbritt4 wrote:13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.
Re: stopping the chase
Are you training him to stop chasing these grouse and woodcock?.ruffbritt4 wrote:I am training him for grouse and woodcock, if that is what you mean.polmaise wrote:What are you training him for?ruffbritt4 wrote:13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.
It's just that (the way I read your post) - forgive me I'm a bit thick!...and from Scotland so please bear with me?..If you don't plan on on training him to be steady ''to wing and shot'' ?
You can surely appreciate my question?
- ruffbritt4
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:21 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: stopping the chase
I don't plan on training him to be steady to wing and shot, but was asking how to call him off the chase. Thanks for all your help guys!
- birddog1968
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:40 pm
- Location: Wherever I may roam
Re: stopping the chase
If thats all your trying to do you need a solid recall by voice and whistle.....and that would be basic Obedience.....
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
Re: stopping the chase
I disagree with everyone one of you. Let him learn to hunt and point the first two years to bring out his natural talent. Chasing birds will add fire in the dog to hunt and find birds. Keep it fun, keep your mouth shut except for praise and no corrections.
After 2 years of this then start the formal training including stop to flush
After 2 years of this then start the formal training including stop to flush
- ACooper
- GDF Premier Member!
- Posts: 3397
- Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:37 pm
- Location: Sometimes I'm in Oklahoma
stopping the chase
No need to delay training when it can be done with minimal pressure. Bad habits can be avoided instead of broken later.
Re: stopping the chase
If it's eventually being used as a game finder ,then the 'game' will teach him much better than you or I ,not to chase. So get as much game in front of him as possible ,sit back and watch the show.ruffbritt4 wrote:I don't plan on training him to be steady to wing and shot, but was asking how to call him off the chase. Thanks for all your help guys!
- gonehuntin'
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 4867
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
- Location: NE WI.
Re: stopping the chase
But the dog still won't come when called unless trained to do so. The earlier you start, the easier. You'lll also run into dogs that NEVER get tired of the chase. Then you have a problem. Allowing uncontrolled chase has one predictable result with a dog: It disturbs previously undisturbed cover and is of benefit to no one.polmaise wrote:If it's eventually being used as a game finder ,then the 'game' will teach him much better than you or I ,not to chase. So get as much game in front of him as possible ,sit back and watch the show.ruffbritt4 wrote:I don't plan on training him to be steady to wing and shot, but was asking how to call him off the chase. Thanks for all your help guys!
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
Re: stopping the chase
My reply was to the OP gonehuntin' , not what I would do ,or recommend to anyone who wanted to train a dog to be steady on wing and shot
Re-call I teach at 8 weeks old and repeat daily. This one is passed that.
Having no game left to chase stops even the hardest of them 'Never get tired of the chase' types How one does this is entirely up to the individuals availability of resources.
Of course they could just take it to a trainer.?
Re-call I teach at 8 weeks old and repeat daily. This one is passed that.
Having no game left to chase stops even the hardest of them 'Never get tired of the chase' types How one does this is entirely up to the individuals availability of resources.
Of course they could just take it to a trainer.?
- ruffbritt4
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:21 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: stopping the chase
I decided to train to steady to shot. My dad held him on the checkcord until i flushed and shot the bird, when the bird started to fall, i let him go fetch.
Re: stopping the chase
That's the ticket!..ruffbritt4 wrote:I decided to train to steady to shot. My dad held him on the checkcord until i flushed and shot the bird, when the bird started to fall, i let him go fetch.
Your dad is probably the best and nearest to get you on the right track?> rather than some on here that may lead you on a path that is confusing, since they don't have the dog that you have?
- birddog1968
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:40 pm
- Location: Wherever I may roam
Re: stopping the chase
That will definatly work if you stick with it, but its going to take time and then you have to have a plan when the dog comes off the check cord.
This is the reason I stop to flush before the dog ever starts pointing birds, then its a simple easy progression with no checkcords (most times). The dog is stop to flushed off lead and check cord , starts pointing birds without a check cord and is steadied thru the shot without checkcords. But there is more than one way to do just about anything.
This is the reason I stop to flush before the dog ever starts pointing birds, then its a simple easy progression with no checkcords (most times). The dog is stop to flushed off lead and check cord , starts pointing birds without a check cord and is steadied thru the shot without checkcords. But there is more than one way to do just about anything.
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
Hunters Pale Rider
Hunters Branch Jalapeno
Re: stopping the chase
Are you saying that there is actually more than one program or process that actually suits the dog!? rather than the poster on here?..Wow!...birddog1968 wrote:That will definatly work if you stick with it, but its going to take time and then you have to have a plan when the dog comes off the check cord.
This is the reason I stop to flush before the dog ever starts pointing birds, then its a simple easy progression with no checkcords (most times). The dog is stop to flushed off lead and check cord , starts pointing birds without a check cord and is steadied thru the shot without checkcords. But there is more than one way to do just about anything.
Now...what's the plan?
I'm genuinely interested!. Stop to flush before the dog starts to pointing birds??..now how do we do that exactly?Hmmm!.... then it's ''Simple easy progression with no check cords (most times)Hmmmmm! ...And there is more ways to do just about anything!?
Nothing personal, birddog1968 , just trying to get a handle on it from a training point of view
- Coveyrise64
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 760
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:57 am
- Location: Oklahoma
Re: stopping the chase
+1birddog1968 wrote:That will definatly work if you stick with it, but its going to take time and then you have to have a plan when the dog comes off the check cord.
This is the reason I stop to flush before the dog ever starts pointing birds, then its a simple easy progression with no checkcords (most times). The dog is stop to flushed off lead and check cord , starts pointing birds without a check cord and is steadied thru the shot without checkcords. But there is more than one way to do just about anything.
If you want to take it a step further, stop to flush, stop to shot, stop to flush and shot, stop to flush-shot-fall can all be taught off check cord before the dog starts pointing birds. I have mine pointing birds and steady to the flush off check cord before I start the steadiness program. For me, it seems to make the transition through the steadiness program progress a little quicker. Several ways to do things.....just have to find one that works best for you!
cr
VC TJ's Highfalutin Hawkeye MH, UTI R.I.P. 4/29/05-12/18/18
Thunderhead's All Jacked Up R.I.P. "My Buddy" 9/9/09-1/27/14
VC TJ's Miss Filson MH, UTI R.I.P. 5/13/03-10/15/14
"I'd rather train for perfection than fix the problems of mediocrity" ~ Me
Thunderhead's All Jacked Up R.I.P. "My Buddy" 9/9/09-1/27/14
VC TJ's Miss Filson MH, UTI R.I.P. 5/13/03-10/15/14
"I'd rather train for perfection than fix the problems of mediocrity" ~ Me
- Coveyrise64
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 760
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:57 am
- Location: Oklahoma
Re: stopping the chase
I can send you a short outline that I use similar to his if you are interested.polmaise wrote:.......just trying to get a handle on it from a training point of view
VC TJ's Highfalutin Hawkeye MH, UTI R.I.P. 4/29/05-12/18/18
Thunderhead's All Jacked Up R.I.P. "My Buddy" 9/9/09-1/27/14
VC TJ's Miss Filson MH, UTI R.I.P. 5/13/03-10/15/14
"I'd rather train for perfection than fix the problems of mediocrity" ~ Me
Thunderhead's All Jacked Up R.I.P. "My Buddy" 9/9/09-1/27/14
VC TJ's Miss Filson MH, UTI R.I.P. 5/13/03-10/15/14
"I'd rather train for perfection than fix the problems of mediocrity" ~ Me