Gun Dog Forum

Carry on!

LOL I must say though after talking to Crackerd a lot lately, there is a bigger difference in training then I realized. No more advice about spaniel training from me.

Lol yes there sure is. Why anyone would even want a dog that's so scared of a bird's scent that it freezes in terror is beyond me but to each his own...

Ya'll get one or two more people to post in favor your gonna need a pivot man

One of the reasons I like this kind of forum is that it cross-fertilizes training ideas so I hope the pointer folk keep right on corrupting the flushing folk ....and vice versa !

Bill T.

Having trained more pointing dogs than flushing breeds(spaniels),yet having owned way more flushing dogs(spaniels) than pointing dogs, I can only envision posturing that will transpire here at this thread. It is a good thing we live in the Northern hemisphere at least we are all used to the spin as it goes down the drain. Any Aussie's here?

Trekmoor wrote: One of the reasons I like this kind of forum is that it cross-fertilizes training ideas so I hope the pointer folk keep right on corrupting the flushing folk ....and vice versa !

Bill T.

Bill -

I like your cross fertilization metaphor. Makes me think of my garden where I mix in Cow manure(BS) with some Horse manure(HS) and throw in a healthy shovelful of Chicken manure(CS) for extra vigor(stink).

Sorry...couldn't resist.

Actually, I know very little about training flushing dogs(although I have seen a few pointing breed dogs that did quite nice work as flushers), so these kinds of threads give me things to think about.

RayG

Ray,

I'm stuck on trying to figure out if I'm cow, chicken or horse. It's like the degrees in college - B.S. (bull), M.S. (More) PHd (piled higher and deeper).

I don't think you can have Too many of One or another.
You can have Too much B.S , or M.S
Pointing or Flushing or Retrieving they all are just Gundogs. What you do with them is up to you.
Personally , A truly ''versatile'' dog should do everything,and a versatile Hunter should be able to do the same.
Happy hunting Y'all.

CDN_Cocker wrote:Lol yes there sure is. Why anyone would even want a dog that's so scared of a bird's scent that it freezes in terror is beyond me but to each his own...

by RoostersMom » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:03 am

"I'm stuck on trying to figure out if I'm cow, chicken or horse. It's like the degrees in college - B.S. (bull), M.S. (More) PHd (piled higher and deeper)." quote

...................................................................

ROFLMBO

Real dogs get in there and push em out Lmao

You all have it too easy, you don't have to blush if your dogs flush. Our dogs are smarter than yours, they have their masters broke to flush.

CDN_Cocker wrote:Real dogs get in there and push em out Lmao

I wouldn't want this to get around, but, when I am hunting by myself and the dog is pointed into a nasty piece of multiflora, greenbrier or Russian olive, I have been known to look around to make sure there were no witnesses, and then ...

Tap the dog on and give him the command "GIT 'EM"!! While I take a step back and look for a shooting lane. I can re-steady the dog before the next trial if I have to.

I will of course vehemently deny this if it is ever brought up to any of my field trial acquaintances.

RayG

I have been known to do the same thing.

Charlie

LOL.. I now wear eye protection. Too many nasty patches to have to enter. I'll think about your idea Ray.

Sharon wrote:LOL.. I now wear eye protection. Too many nasty patches to have to enter. I'll think about your idea Ray.

Sharon -

When I hunted a lot back in NJ, in my younger days, I wore a heavy, unlined canvas coat, leather gloves, briarproof(Yeah right) pants and a brimmed hat that would cover my ears. when plowed into the multiflora and greenbrier. I used to carry Fiskars pruning shears in my game pouch to cut my way in and often out of some of the stuff the dogs would be pointed in. I swear prescription glasses, so that is covered too.

That stuff does get old. Catching a thorn on your ear lobe or up your nose really smarts and it bleeds all over the place. Real PIA.

But if that is where the birds are, that is often where the dog will be pointed, He did his job. He is in there eyeball to eyeball with a bird. Now you gotta do your part. You gotta suck it up, stick your gloved hand over the top of your hat and wade in there. And probably not even get a shot.

If however, the dog happens to be on the outside pointed... I now tend to lean more to the "sic 'em boy" school of pointing dog training. I bleed enough for my dogs, flushing at trials.

RayG

RayGubernat wrote:

CDN_Cocker wrote:Real dogs get in there and push em out Lmao

I wouldn't want this to get around, but, when I am hunting by myself and the dog is pointed into a nasty piece of multiflora, greenbrier or Russian olive, I have been known to look around to make sure there were no witnesses, and then ...

Tap the dog on and give him the command "GIT 'EM"!! While I take a step back and look for a shooting lane. I can re-steady the dog before the next trial if I have to.

I will of course vehemently deny this if it is ever brought up to any of my field trial acquaintances.

RayG

*clap* *clap*!!!! understood!

So many good things about flushers:
1. You can never accuse them of crowding a bird
2. They never break point
3. Manners like honoring another dog ... what's that all about?
4. You don't have to walk or ride for any extended period of time while a dog's holding point
5. You don't need binoculars to watch them work
6. Flushing both feather and fur ... what's the problem?
7. Hunting for themselves? How can you tell & who cares as long as they are close enough?
8. Standing still for extended periods with no human in sight is unnecessary
9. The dog is not always required to be the one to pick the objective

BigShooter wrote: 3. Manners like honoring another dog ... what's that all about?

Flushers are still required to honor another dog/brace mate

Knew that ... at least well broke ones do. Threw it in for fodder.

BigShooter wrote:So many good things about flushers:
1. You can never accuse them of crowding a bird
2. They never break point
3. Manners like honoring another dog ... what's that all about?
4. You don't have to walk or ride for any extended period of time while a dog's holding point
5. You don't need binoculars to watch them work
6. Flushing both feather and fur ... what's the problem?
7. Hunting for themselves? How can you tell & who cares as long as they are close enough?
8. Standing still for extended periods with no human in sight is unnecessary
9. The dog is not always required to be the one to pick the objective

Number 10.. In 30years I have never seen an nonproductive...flush.... seen many nonproductive points.

gundogguy wrote:

BigShooter wrote:So many good things about flushers:
1. You can never accuse them of crowding a bird
2. They never break point
3. Manners like honoring another dog ... what's that all about?
4. You don't have to walk or ride for any extended period of time while a dog's holding point
5. You don't need binoculars to watch them work
6. Flushing both feather and fur ... what's the problem?
7. Hunting for themselves? How can you tell & who cares as long as they are close enough?
8. Standing still for extended periods with no human in sight is unnecessary
9. The dog is not always required to be the one to pick the objective

Number 10.. In 30years I have never seen an nonproductive...flush.... seen many nonproductive points.

Now that's funny, no matter what flavor you prefer

gundogguy wrote:Having trained more pointing dogs than flushing breeds(spaniels),yet having owned way more flushing dogs(spaniels) than pointing dogs, I can only envision posturing that will transpire here at this thread. It is a good thing we live in the Northern hemisphere at least we are all used to the spin as it goes down the drain. Any Aussie's here?

YES !







carry on !

If we had a dog from a pointing breed that got that close to a wild cock pheasant, it'd never get a chance to go on point. Either that's a pen raised bird or your Chinese immigrants are a lot different than ours.

I'd like to know why people choose flushing breeds over pointing breeds. What benefit does a flusher have over a pointer?

CDN_Cocker wrote:I'd like to know why people choose flushing breeds over pointing breeds. What benefit does a flusher have over a pointer?

the people who choose the pointing breeds don't know any better

UplandJim wrote:

CDN_Cocker wrote:I'd like to know why people choose flushing breeds over pointing breeds. What benefit does a flusher have over a pointer?

the people who choose the pointing breeds don't know any better

LMAO well I know that! Seriously though to those of us with flushers - Why does a flusher give you the edge? When is a flushing breed the breed to go with in regards to how/what/where you hunt? I know my reasoning personally, but curious as to other people's...

CDN_Cocker wrote:

UplandJim wrote:

CDN_Cocker wrote:I'd like to know why people choose flushing breeds over pointing breeds. What benefit does a flusher have over a pointer?

the people who choose the pointing breeds don't know any better

LMAO well I know that! Seriously though to those of us with flushers - Why does a flusher give you the edge? When is a flushing breed the breed to go with in regards to how/what/where you hunt? I know my reasoning personally, but curious as to other people's...

I personally want to be in there with the action. I want the surprise of a flush - much as I would jumping a grouse without a dog. I had a few pointing breeds that weren't really worth a "bleep" (I wasn't much or a trainer at the time either) but after I got my first flushing dog (an FBEC) (still, I didn't train her to do anything), I was completely blown away by her ability to put up game. I most likely will never own anything other than an FBEC again. This is all my personal opinion and experience and I'm very happy with it!
YMMV

Upland Jim et al -

Different strokes.

I guess I am a lazy hunter. I have pointers because they will go to all the birdy places...so I don't have to. I have hunted behind flushing dogs before and it is exhausting to me to be "on alert" all the while I am in the field. The times I have hunted over flushing dogs, it was more like a forced march with weapon at port arms. Exciting...most certainly...but very tiring for me.

I very much prefer to stroll along, enjoying the scenery...with the dogs working out front, to the left and to the right, as far as I can see and hear them. If the dog finds and points a bird, THEN I will walk over there, flush and shoot(at) the bird. The dog will wait for me. The older and slower I get...the more I like the "waiting for me" part.

Anyhow, as I said...different strokes. Hunt what you like the way you like...as long as you hunt. THAT is what's important.

RayG

CDN_Cocker wrote:

UplandJim wrote:

CDN_Cocker wrote:I'd like to know why people choose flushing breeds over pointing breeds. What benefit does a flusher have over a pointer?

the people who choose the pointing breeds don't know any better

LMAO well I know that! Seriously though to those of us with flushers - Why does a flusher give you the edge? When is a flushing breed the breed to go with in regards to how/what/where you hunt? I know my reasoning personally, but curious as to other people's...

I chose a Springer for multiple reasons. They have a great temperament, are eager to please and train, are hard working. They also are not too big, my wife had one as a kid so she has always loved them, and I love their hunting style. They are very fun to watch work.

I have no issue with pointing dogs. I originally wanted a Vizsla but after a lot of research I decided that it maybe wasn't the right choice for my first gun dog.

Where I hunt the grouse and pheasant don't always hold and a strong flusher seemed like the right choice for me. I also wanted something that will love the water and could hunt duck with.

There are many breeds that would have fulfilled my needs but I'm glad I chose a field bred English Springer Spaniel.

Hello all, I'm new to the forum and to bird dogs. I just went through trying to decide between pointing and flushing dogs so I figured this would be a good thread to post in. I wanted a breed that was smaller in size and that was some what versatile in most fields. I plan to do mostly dove, duck and quail hunting and ended up getting a Field Bred English Cocker and couldn't be happier. I really like GSP's and almost got one but the cocker personality really fit with me and my family. IMO it comes down to a preference in hunting style. Some like the slower pace of a pointer and some like the faster pace of a flusher. There both great to hunt over and I’m sure I’ll own a pointer down the road.

M2WOODIE wrote:Hello all, I'm new to the forum and to bird dogs. I just went through trying to decide between pointing and flushing dogs so I figured this would be a good thread to post in. I wanted a breed that was smaller in size and that was some what versatile in most fields. I plan to do mostly dove, duck and quail hunting and ended up getting a Field Bred English Cocker and couldn't be happier. I really like GSP's and almost got one but the cocker personality really fit with me and my family. IMO it comes down to a preference in hunting style. Some like the slower pace of a pointer and some like the faster pace of a flusher. There both great to hunt over and I’m sure I’ll own a pointer down the road.

Good to see another cocker owner! How old is your's? What kennel is he/she from?

M2WOODIE wrote:Hello all, I'm new to the forum and to bird dogs. I just went through trying to decide between pointing and flushing dogs so I figured this would be a good thread to post in. I wanted a breed that was smaller in size and that was some what versatile in most fields. I plan to do mostly dove, duck and quail hunting and ended up getting a Field Bred English Cocker and couldn't be happier. I really like GSP's and almost got one but the cocker personality really fit with me and my family. IMO it comes down to a preference in hunting style. Some like the slower pace of a pointer and some like the faster pace of a flusher. There both great to hunt over and I’m sure I’ll own a pointer down the road.

Excellent choice! Welcome to the club. Would like to see his/her pedigree. Any pics?

I grew up hunting with a mixed breed that would help flush rabbits and birds. I would work my way through thickets looking for game to shoot at. One day I read about the English Springer Spaniel working in range, producing fur and feather. Also liked water retrieving. The article sounded so much like the way I hunted but with a nicely trained dog involved. This decision set the course that has been a great journey so far.

I like the spaniels attitude and work ethic in the field. They are very versatile and I have used my dogs for many hunting activities from different types of cover to different states to different birds. Wild bird hunting to game farms. I haven't turned down a hunt because I have a spaniel. They can do all that I have time for.

I am getting better as a trainer and continue to improve. Right now, I have some of the best trained dogs I have ever owned.

Good to see another cocker owner! How old is your's? What kennel is he/she from?[/quote]

I bought her from a local plantation. She's 6 months old.

Cute looking pup