1 year old Bird Dog - Help

[sixxes]

I'm not an experienced bird hunter but I went a few times as a kid. Now I'm a dad and I have a 13 year old son myself and a couple shotguns inherited from my grandfather. I want to get more into bird hunting here in Arizona for fun and to spend some quality time with my son away from all the electronic distractions.

I bought a bird dog pup a year ago and I love her to death...she's awesome. I had the best intentions of training her but I never did. Now we're getting close to quail season again and I need some help. I live in the city (Phoenix area) and I don't have access to a large field for training without driving, nor do I have any training equipment. I'm prepared to put effort into this, but not sure where to start. The dog herself is quite birdy. Our yard has quite a few birds and she is constantly chasing them...constantly. She's caught numerous birds...she deserves to go "real hunting".

At this point, I'd like some recommendations on what the best way to prepare her for quail season. I'm a bit lost. Should I buy some videos, join a bird hunting association, or what? Thanks much.

[RayGubernat]

I don't know how much time you have between now and your upland season, so I will assume that you have a couple of months at most.

With that amount of time, I would do one of two things. One would be to find a good trainer in your area, someone within easy driving distance and put the dog with that trainer ASAP from now until the season opens. Go to the trainer's every chance you get, both you and your son and learn how to train a dog by watching the trainer work with your dog.

That... honestly... would be your best option.

Your second option, if the above is not doable, would be to concentrate on the basic obedience commands, here and whoa and get those pretty firmly in the dog's head. Then take the dog into area fields and let her hunt. Let the birds teach her what her genetics is driving her to do. When birds get up, fire a capgun while she is chasing. Hunt the heck out of the dog, being careful not to fire more than one shot at departing birds. Tpoo much gunfire too soon will often make a dog gunshy. The dog will not have much discipline around birds, so you and your son need to have the lion's share of the discipline for her first season.

Let the birds take her to school. it might be a long season with plenty of walking on your part and not so much in the shooting department, but your dog will be learning things and so will you guys. Just member it is hunting, not shooting. If your boy wants to shoot stuff, get a Trius foot trap and a couple boxes of claybirds and go have fun. You should do that anyway...it IS fun. When my son was starting out, he burned a whole lot of powder and busted a whole bunch of claybirds. we both had a lot of fun and he turned into a pretty fair wingshot in the process.

Next summer, long about May, consider option A again.

You also might seriously consider joining a training group like a local Navhda chapter, to get both you and your son up to speed. Again, it is a little late for that, but better late than never. A mentor can be a HUGE help,in so many different ways when you are starting out. Not all Training groups are created equal and the chemistry of a particular group might not work for you, but it is certainly well worth looking into.

Training a bird dog ain't rocket science, but it does require some basic knowledge, which you probably do not have at this point in time. If you did not grow up with bird dogs, there is no reason why you should expect that of yourself. It is better to let the dog do what comes naturally, follow her, watch what she does and how she does it.

If you understand that the dog is the hunter, the one with the nose and the genetically enhanced abilities, you will be waaaay ahead. Watch and learn, because she will teach you how and where to hunt. most dogs come out of the birth canal with more hunting ability than we can ever use. The best we can do is to shape the dog's desire to work with us. The key to successful hunting with a dog is to have the dog, the real hunter, WANT to hunt with you and for you.

Sorry for rambling on... hope some of this makes sense.

RayG

[Rod W]

Option 1, 2, and 3, Find a good trainer, trainer, trainer---join a bird dog club, find out where you can get into some Mearns Quail, maybe down near Patagonia or south, these beautiful little birds hold better than any other bird for your pointer!!! It takes a well seasoned dog to master the speed demons you guy have in the Gambels and Scalies!!

[birddog1968]

Bill Gibbons is in that area, give him a call QUICK..... http://www.magmabirddogs.com/

another option would be to contact Knine on this board, she is not far from you. http://www.kninebirddog.com/

[RoostersMom]

ditto what the others' have suggested. There is no way that you will have the time to do anything meaningful with your dog between now and quail season. If you had the summer, I'd suggest the Perfect Start from perfection kennels. In this short timeframe, I'd get a trainer and send the dog immediately. Make sure you have time to get there and learn how to handle your dog as well.

[CDN_Cocker]

You never mentioned the breed. .. That could also affect how you train it...

[sixxes]

Thanks very much all...really, really helpful. Thank you.

I did order Perfect Start/Perfect Finish yesterday but I recognize that I won't have time to this season to get through all of that.

The breed is a Braque du Bourbonnais from Cactus Country Kennels in Tucson - Mary and Larry are great people.

Like I said earlier, my dog Gigi has all the makings of a good hunter...I just need to do my part to help her out with that.

[Ruffshooter]

Depending on if you actually get the dog to a trainer or not; I did not read Rays post but usually he is right.
But ifthe dog does not get to the trainer.
If you have a good recall on the dog, just go this season and let the birds give her its first real lessons. You just go follow let her figure stuff out, Only shoot a couple birds she has pointed. If she is busting birds not shooting. You can start formal training after.
Those quai or pheasants you have out there will teach a lot and refocust her efforts away from "bleep" birds. Probably.

[mountaindogs]

I agree with pretty much everything said above.
but
PLEASE remember DO A PROPER GUN INTRO before you go and shoot over her!! Take the time to do it right.
SO SO many people around here just go plop their dog in a field and shoot 3 or 4 times with a 12 gauge (poor pulverized quail but maybe they were after pheasant) about 2 feet from the dog and one great prospect just turned onto "free gunshy dog" on craigs list. :roll: :roll:

BTW hope you'll post pics of your dog. Love the look of that breed but have never been forunate enough to hunt with one. If you were closer I'd invite you on a hunt just to see the dog

(Check outDelmar Smith and HAPPY TIMING, and after you get a solid solid recall as stated above, you might do well to let this be a Happy Timing season.)

[aulrich]

Ditto to all above

A couple of things to add, first is you would be surprised what you can do with a weedy field in town, myself I have been working through perfect finish and at this point I have done the bulk of it (working steady to shot with starter pistol atm) in my local off leash area, in the middle of town. Having my own pigeon koop helps tons, not required but it sure does help.

My son and I are a season ahead of you, we too were rookies, first dog for me let alone gun dog. This first season have fun, take the dog hunting as much as possible only shoot birds it points or true wild flushes where the dog was no where near to. This first season is an investment season like taking a kid fishing it's about building desire and basic skill sets of the kid, it's fun along the way,but a different sort of fun that you fishing.

Clubs are well worth the effort, I have had so much useful help from, my local NAVHDA its amazing.

[High Voltage]

x2 for NAVHDA, check into the local NAVHDA chapter, you can find the info here: http://navhda.com/

[AZ Brittany Guy]

All the above and join http://www.azpdc.org/ Arizona Pointing Dog Club. You will meet people who have sources on birds and most of them go by the "Bill West" system, refined by Bill Gibbons and Mo Lindley. Good place to get introduced to the Bird Dog community. BTW we have a member in our club in the White Mountains that has a dog out of that kennel and I am impressed with it. The breeder would probably like to see you get involved with NAVADA.

[duckn66]

If you don't have access to training grounds, no equipment or birds your best best bet is going to be to send her off to a good trainer. Get with a good trainer and ask him these questions and see what he/she says.

The dog is only a year old. The end is nowhere near. Do your dog a favor and do not shoot over her. Worse thing that could happen is that you have to wait until next year to hunt her. I would not rush anything with her. You will be much happier in the end.

[diplomat019]

hey. I'm a first time gsp owner. what did you do for gun intro? I am planning on doing that soon but want to make sure i do right. thanks

[RoostersMom]

gun intro - use the Perfect Start method. It works excellent. If you search old posts, you'll see many suggestions on here for how not to mess up your dog when doing gun intro.

[jimbo&rooster]

To be honest, until a dog is a year old I dont do much with them any how. I would start looking ahead to the spring right now, and If you are going to go the route of a trainer just get a feel for what a trainer might expect when you bring the dog to them later.

For now, I would work on recall and make sure the dog knows "Here" means "here right now". Other than that I would do gun intro, and when season opened I would start taking the dog "hunting". Like was mentioned before, I wouldnt get to excited about shooting a bunch of birds, maybe one here and there if the dog points it and holds it till you get there, but not much more than that. If you have enough wild birds to make 1 or 2 contacts most of the time when you go out you will be suprised what a well bred dog will learn.

Again, I would not get too wound up about cramming any real training into the next couple of months in anticipation of the upcoming season. I would work on basic commands, then come hunting season, I would go to the field and keep my mouth shut and let the dog get a feel for its job, let her run, if she gets further away than you are comfortable with call her back, but don't micromanage the hunt, let those natural abilities you payed for develope.

Once you have had a season to see what your dog can do, and specific things you would like to see, then you look forward to spring and summer, and you can either start making a plan to train her your self, or you can find a trainer and go from there.

Jim

[sixxes]

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies. An update:

Sunday (yesterday) I drove out to Chino Valley, AZ and met with Gene at Blankenburg Kennels so he could check out my girl and I could check out him and the kennel. I came away thoroughly impressed with the kennel, him and his wife Ute. Great people and very knowledgeable. To Gigi's benefit, she did what she does and Gene said she was the best socialized Braque at that age that he's come across, so that's something at any rate. I did feel a little sorry for the pigeon she mangled...for about half a second.

So long story short, I'm driving back up this coming Saturday for snake avoidance training (a must here in the southwest with all of our rattlers) and then I'm leaving her for a month. He's going to introduce her to birds, to the gun, etc. Then I'll take her out and see what she can find. I'll be sure and not shoot anything that she doesn't point and we'll have fun. I'm not an experienced hunter so we'll learn together and I'll continue to ask noob questions here and use the search feature so I don't do anything that'll set her training back.

I did purchase Perfect Start/Perfect Finish so I'll watch that and see what I feel comfortable doing...and I'm going to join NAVHDA and the Arizona Pointing Dog Club. After quail season I'll re-evaluate and go from there.

So a week ago I was somewhat lost, and now I have an action plan. Thank you all again for your help...REALLY appreciate it.

[sixxes]

So this past Saturday I took a trip out to Chino Valley, AZ where Gene and Ute run Blankenburg Kennels. Super nice people and they've got a great spread out there. Gene checked out Gigi as she ran around his place (found the bird coop immediately...LOVED seeing her stop dead when the scent hit her) and then he tossed a bird out. She saw it but kept running and I'm like "what the heck?" but she kept going full gallop, made a circle, then sprinted 40 yards straight and nailed the poor bird. I told Gene before he put the bird out that she was going to kill it and probably eat it, but he said don't worry about it...he wanted to see how she reacted. We've got a ton of regular birds in our yard, and she spends her waking moments stalking them, chasing them, doing everything she can to get them so it didn't surprise me when she banzai'd his pigeon.

At any rate, Gene was satisfied and commented that she was one of the best socialized Braques at that age that he's been around. He commented that some Braques will hang around their owners too much and too close at first...you want a dog that will range out a bit. Makes sense to me.

I feel really good about Gene and his wife Ute so I'm driving back this Saturday for rattlesnake training and I'm leaving Gigi for a month. Gene's going to get her on birds, introduce her to gunfire, etc. Then I'll pick her up and we'll learn how to hunt together this season. I'll continue to ask questions here and use the search function so I don't do too many stupid things to stunt her progress.

A week ago I posted and was at a loss at what next to do in order to get out into the field this season with my son and our dog. Now, thanks to all of you, I have a game plan and I'm excited for the impending season. I'm going to join the local NAVHDA and Arizona Pointing Dog Club as well. Really appreciate everyone's help. Jon