Force fetching a Brittany

[Nozzer]

I took pup out on his first training hunt and he performed well. Busted a few pheasant hens but pointed staunch on 3 others so I'm proud and know he'll only get better. With the hens we did harvest, he didn't have any inclination to retrieve period, only mark where the bird lay. I had no expectation of him retrieving steady now but it's my next step with him. I've been playing fetch with him since he's been 8 weeks and he's performed consistently with yard work but I'm noticing a reluctance with anything in the field whether that be balls, bumpers or wings. Would you recommend a force fetch program? Or specific techniques with the Brittany due to its softness or should I just be content with him marking the down bird? Thanks for your replies!

[Trekmoor]

I've been playing fetch with him since he's been 8 weeks and he's performed consistently with yard work but I'm noticing a reluctance with anything in the field whether that be balls, bumpers or wings. Would you recommend a force fetch program? Or specific techniques with the Brittany due to its softness or should I just be content with him marking the down bird? Thanks for your replies!

I have the same thing happening with my own Brittany pup of 9 months right now. I have noticed the same thing with every Brittany I have ever owned (only 3.) In my opinion this breed is a natural hunter and so, in a place where game is around, they are not too interested in bumpers. My own bitch will blink them if there is much in the way of game scent in the fall area of the bumper.

When I see that happen I insist she brings me the bumper. I do not train dogs F.F. but my dogs do know when I am seriously wanting them to find and retrieve bumpers. To hurry this process along a bit and when I get the chance to , I take my pup into pheasant and rabbit pens that are very heavily game scented and do a few retrieves using bumpers inside the pens. I have no idea as yet what she will do when I actually send her to retrieve a freshly shot pheasant once the shooting season starts here. The previous brits I owned were both very natural fresh shot game retrievers.....it was the bumpers they weren't too keen on.

If I read your post correctly you are already starting to shoot pheasants ? When does the pheasant shooting season begin on your side of the pond ?

Bill T.

[Meller]

How old is your pup?

[RoostersMom]

IMO, if you want a reliable retrieve, and you're not getting it with just "play" fetching - then you'll eventually need to FF the dog. I FF'd a beagle last year (he kept jumping on the table between my pointer and gsps' lessons). I would think if you do it thoughtfully, you can likely FF any dog. Sometimes soft dogs can be easier - but sometimes they can be harder. If you're not wanting to do it yourself, then send your dog to a pro.

I wouldn't think of doing it until the dog was over a year old and had a season under his belt - but that's again....just my personal opinion. I like to have a good, happy first year down with no expectations.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

In my opinion, the FF should be the last thing you do with a pointing dog. Let the pup, be a pup the first year of its life, then work on steady to wing, shot & fall. Get some experienced help with the FF. Once U start it U need to see it through to the end. FWIW

[kninebirddog]

really depends on the age and how much bird exposure the dogs has had as to how far I will take a FF program on a young dog.
There are somethings you can start with a young dog That will help lay the foundation for future FF'ing
I like Sharon Potters approach to FF'ing but there are many good ones out there
Basically on the pointing breeds it does seem to be better to let them have some bird and field experience and a little more maturity before really starting them on a full out FF program where The retriever people they like to start much younger .
But no matter what God method you elect to choose ..The biggest thing to remember is to take each small step where you can establish a pattern of repetition becoming habit. Don't rush to make the next step go in small increments I see people start off in front of the f=dogs mouth and then move the dowl to far for the next little step and the dog gets confused ..You will be able to go faster by taking smaller steps and also in dog training if you are in a hurry ..you will get no where fast

[brittfans]

I like to have my pups retrieve a frozen quail in the yard before they get a fresh shot bird.
On a check cord I will throw a ball or bumper a few times so they know what i want then I will throw the quail when they go get it I really encourage them to come back with it fast.I dont want them to have time to chew on the bird thats a hard thing to stop if it starts.I will only throw it 2 or 3 times a session.that way they are excited about the bird.my old dog even get excited about retrieving frozen quail .

[Nozzer]

I've been playing fetch with him since he's been 8 weeks and he's performed consistently with yard work but I'm noticing a reluctance with anything in the field whether that be balls, bumpers or wings. Would you recommend a force fetch program? Or specific techniques with the Brittany due to its softness or should I just be content with him marking the down bird? Thanks for your replies!

I have the same thing happening with my own Brittany pup of 9 months right now. I have noticed the same thing with every Brittany I have ever owned (only 3.) In my opinion this breed is a natural hunter and so, in a place where game is around, they are not too interested in bumpers. My own bitch will blink them if there is much in the way of game scent in the fall area of the bumper.

When I see that happen I insist she brings me the bumper. I do not train dogs F.F. but my dogs do know when I am seriously wanting them to find and retrieve bumpers. To hurry this process along a bit and when I get the chance to , I take my pup into pheasant and rabbit pens that are very heavily game scented and do a few retrieves using bumpers inside the pens. I have no idea as yet what she will do when I actually send her to retrieve a freshly shot pheasant once the shooting season starts here. The previous brits I owned were both very natural fresh shot game retrievers.....it was the bumpers they weren't too keen on.

If I read your post correctly you are already starting to shoot pheasants ? When does the pheasant shooting season begin on your side of the pond ?

Bill T.

Bill, I had a training hunt on a private preserve that used pheasant hens. Pheasant season is not for another two months in Oregon.

[Nozzer]

How old is your pup?

My pup is now 14 months old and today had a solid session of retrieving in the yard but once again after I transported him to the field he had no interest and would rather search for birds. As I said he is pointing consistently now in the field and still very birdy, would it be detrimental at all to shoot over him a season and only enforce retrieving after this season's over?

[EvanG]

How old is your pup?

My pup is now 14 months old and today had a solid session of retrieving in the yard but once again after I transported him to the field he had no interest and would rather search for birds. As I said he is pointing consistently now in the field and still very birdy, would it be detrimental at all to shoot over him a season and only enforce retrieving after this season's over?

14 months old is no longer a puppy. Train now. Hunt later. The reverse is a formula for failure.

EvanG

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

How old is your pup?

My pup is now 14 months old and today had a solid session of retrieving in the yard but once again after I transported him to the field he had no interest and would rather search for birds. As I said he is pointing consistently now in the field and still very birdy, would it be detrimental at all to shoot over him a season and only enforce retrieving after this season's over?

If you began the force fetch now, you could realistically begin hunting your dog in October. A season of letting the dog repeatedly behave the way you obviously don't want him to, will only prove to be frustrating when birds are down. I personally would put hunting and all other training on hold with this dog, and do the force fetch now.

Nate

[big_fish]

Place oriented. Your dog has retrieved most likely hundereds of retrieves for you in the yard and knows just what you want him to do in the yard. you really need to train in many different areas. It was once said a dog doesn't truly understand a command until it performs it flawlessly in 7 different places. Most brittanies I have seen have a natural retrieve not all of them but most.

[clink83]

FF a 14 month old Brittany is not the best idea. At that age it should be working on being broke, not being put on the table. If hes still busting birds you need to focus on manners on birds, not force fetching. Give your dog at least one season of solid hunting before you even think of it. A Brittany is not a lab, and I would not take advice from retriever people.

[Flashbritt]

FF a 14 month old Brittany is not the best idea. At that age it should be working on being broke, not being put on the table. Give your dog at least one season of solid hunting before you even think of it. A Brittany is not a lab, and I would not take advice from retriever people.

Both of my Brittanys were forced fethched trained at 12 months old while at Hunting school. Highly receommend it. Turned the job over to the Pro Paul Doiron Hidden Valley Kennels CA. He does not use table method at all. Some things are just better left to the pros. Was only 3 week process for him.

[4dabirds]

If the dog is not steady now you are putting the cart before the horse expecting it to retrieve. Get the dog steady first then work o the retrieve . If you continue to hunt with the dog in an environment you can not control every repetition of the wrong thing is a lesson in the wrong thing. The dogs desire will take over and it will do the things that are most rewardable to the dog. If the dog choses to break thats a repetition of breaking. When the season is over you will have to go back and remediate the problem. It will take more repetitions to correct these unwanted behaviors. By allowing the dog to retrieve you put another obsticle in the dogs ability to grasp the idea of being steady.

[gonehuntin']

Ff him. Every hunting dog should be ff'd; it's part of his job description.

[clink83]

FF a 14 month old Brittany is not the best idea. At that age it should be working on being broke, not being put on the table. Give your dog at least one season of solid hunting before you even think of it. A Brittany is not a lab, and I would not take advice from retriever people.

Both of my Brittanys were forced fethched trained at 12 months old while at Hunting school. Highly receommend it. Turned the job over to the Pro Paul Doiron Hidden Valley Kennels CA. He does not use table method at all. Some things are just better left to the pros. Was only 3 week process for him.

Just because you pay someone to train doesn't mean they have good judgment. If anyone suggested FFing an unbroken Britt I would find another trainer. Dave Walker helped train my dog, and says not to FF until a dog has a season under him. You wanna tell him he's wrong?

[Chukar12]

Clink,

It seems your own judgement is limited either by geography experience or both. I would bet that Dave Walker would alter his "hard fast" rule should he find a situation he deemed it warranted. As a secondary consideration do you know who Paul Doiron is and his credentials and reputation in the Brittany world? Apparently not, what was your closing line? "you want to tell him he's wrong?"

I realize Dave Walker helped you train your dog, and that probably qualifies you to measure the ability of the pro trainer s trying to help... I would venture Evan Graham could break a pointing dog with more class and manners than the large percentage of people here...

[DGFavor]

Not saying yay or nay to this thread but I know several very successful dog fellars that FF before they do any other training with their youngsters...and not because they give a crap about their dogs actually retrieving. Just part of their process and works for 'em to get their dogs where they want 'em. Hard to tell 'em they're doing it wrong as they kick my arse again!!

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Not saying yay or nay to this thread but I know several very successful dog fellars that FF before they do any other training with their youngsters...and not because they give a crap about their dogs actually retrieving. Just part of their process and works for 'em to get their dogs where they want 'em. Hard to tell 'em they're doing it wrong as they kick my arse again!!

Not saying when the right time is but a fellow by the name of Clyde Morton who used to run pointers in AF at Grand Junction always FF''ed his dogs even though his game did not require a retrieve. People said he could handle his dogs through a gate a 1/2 mile.

[gonehuntin']

Not saying yay or nay to this thread but I know several very successful dog fellars that FF before they do any other training with their youngsters...and not because they give a crap about their dogs actually retrieving. Just part of their process and works for 'em to get their dogs where they want 'em. Hard to tell 'em they're doing it wrong as they kick my arse again!!

When I was still training, we got many dogs in that were 10 months to 1 1/2 years that had never hunted and never seen a bird. We trained them like any other dog; got em' birdy, obedience trained them, ff'd them, finished them in the field.

It isn't how I do it with my own dogs, but I can guarantee you it works for hunting dogs.

[kninebirddog]

FF a 14 month old Brittany is not the best idea. At that age it should be working on being broke, not being put on the table. Give your dog at least one season of solid hunting before you even think of it. A Brittany is not a lab, and I would not take advice from retriever people.

Both of my Brittanys were forced fethched trained at 12 months old while at Hunting school. Highly receommend it. Turned the job over to the Pro Paul Doiron Hidden Valley Kennels CA. He does not use table method at all. Some things are just better left to the pros. Was only 3 week process for him.

Paul hands down is one of the best Brittany handler trainers. He does a very nice job on his training of dogs and their FF which he does all the dogs in his program.
Paul has been instrumental in the training and/or handling well over 50 Brittanys to their Field trial titles including some that got national titles.

Nice thing is not only are Paul and Peggy top notch in their ways with the dogs training handling and scouting they are a Class act.

[clink83]

Clink,

It seems your own judgement is limited either by geography experience or both. I would bet that Dave Walker would alter his "hard fast" rule should he find a situation he deemed it warranted. As a secondary consideration do you know who Paul Doiron is and his credentials and reputation in the Brittany world? Apparently not, what was your closing line? "you want to tell him he's wrong?"

I realize Dave Walker helped you train your dog, and that probably qualifies you to measure the ability of the pro trainer s trying to help... I would venture Evan Graham could break a pointing dog with more class and manners than the large percentage of people here...

Sorry, I often post from a smart phone so things can come out clipped, or doesn't make complete sense There are lots of opinions out there, not all of them are are the same or good for the person asking.

If the OP wants to send off his dog to a pro trainer to finish his dog and FF, that is one thing. It's between him and the trainer what they do. I wouldn't say anything one way or another. If I sent my dog to Dave again and he wanted to FF him while training I wouldn't question him because hes an expert in both dogs and the breed. I'm sure you could competently do it too. I'm sure Evan could too.

On the other hand, If someone is on here asking about FF a dog that isn't even fully broke, its probably a bad idea to make blanket statements. The fact that he asked for a program and not if he should have it done by a trainer is a big tip off to me. Just because you, or someone else could competently do it doesn't mean the OP should. Would you personally tell your average joe who is trying to train his dog that it's a good idea to be FFing and breaking the dog at the same time?

That's why I don't post in internet forums too much anymore, everyone thinks their way is the best way to go, no matter who is asking. We won't even get into the whole "a When it comes to advice that could ruin your dog or make him loose interest in birds, you'd be hard pressed to tell me the"If you have to ask its probably a bad idea" isn't a prudent rule of thumb.