hand signals and ecollar use with a deaf dog

[danobri]

My brittany Ida is almost 13 and has recently gone deaf. She is a seasoned hunter - great nose, rock steady on point, and a decent retriever for a pointing dog. In order to keep hunting with her, I have started training her to come with an e-collar. I have never trained with an e-collar before, so am learning as I go.

Previously I used the voice command "here" as well as a hand signal (dropping a raised hand) to get her to come in the field. Right now I am teaching her to recognize a single tap on the e-collar to replace "here" when she is out of sight. For retrieving, I previously used the "fetch" voice command and directional hand signals once she was searching, but never had a hand signal that meant "fetch." Here are my questions:

1) Is there a standard / common hand signal that means "fetch"?
2) Is it practical to teach multiple commands with an e-collar? (eg - once for "here," twice for "fetch," or something like that - I also have "continuous" as an option)

If anyone has any experience training an older dog that has gone deaf with an ecollar, I would be really curious to hear about it.

Thanks, DanO

[mountaindogs]

Most trainers of deaf dogs teach a "watch " signal with collars that vibrate. Then use hand signals and touching the dog in various ways to give commands.

[EvanG]

Most trainers of deaf dogs teach a "watch " signal with collars that vibrate. Then use hand signals and touching the dog in various ways to give commands.

That's a good suggestion, and one of very few applications I would approve of for the vibrate feature. Surely a fairer way than nailing a dog merely because it can no longer hear.

EvanG

[Rockett]

We have a lot of negative attitude toward the ecollar here in Australia. People are just too quick to judged before they understand the benefits. This has been a topic of discussion of late. Most comments re the vibrate is that it scares the dog? I don't understand? If you used the vibrate and say replaced a clicker, and treat with food so the dog associates with positive experience, this would be good, right? I think this would be a great way to teach here. My dog couldn't give 2 hoots about a food reward, a retreive is what he is after though. As for fetch I agree with touching the dog for signals, if the dog is near you when you release for a retreive this could work well. I'd be interested in how it turns out for you both.

[shags]

I had a congenitally deaf setter which had very little training; she came to us at around age 12. We currently have an older dog which if not deaf, is very hard of hearing. Both these dogs learned that a really low knick meant to pay attention, and they learned to respond to a variety of hand signals. In the field they knew 'this way' 'here' and 'whoa'. That was sufficient for my needs. They learned several more for in the house.

The most worrisome difficulty was when they lose sight of us, or if we lost them for a minute. They'd stop fine, but if they couldn't see us, or scent us, they seem to almost panic in their search sometimes continuing in the wrong direction. Keeping everyone visible became a priority to prevent stressful situations.

Good luck with your old gal.

[4dabirds]

I agree with the idea of using a vibrate feature as opposed to using stimulation. An inherent behavioral trait in dogs is that they learn to anticipate what is coming next by the cues that are given to them , wether those cues are intentional or not. The dog will know it is food time based on your actions such as going to the closet where the food is stored. In the beginning when the dog is a puppy it may have not known until you brought out the food. But as time goes on the dog learns to read these subtle cues you are giving off to anticipate what is going to happen next . As each new cue comes about it replaces the previous cue and the dog learns it is going to be fed. These earlier cues are called pre-cues. With consistent training the pre-cue becomes the cue the dog is using to navigate the command at hand. A simple way to look at this is with the sit command and a hand signal. Raise your hand and then command sit. As long as your dog knows the verbal sit command it will anticipate the verbal command through consistent repetition it will sit on the hand signal. This is the way all dogs are. There is no reason that you could not use vibrate then had signal for come and get the same result. Keep in mind that when you are doing this it is like any other command. You must start out slow training this in the yard and then generalizing it to other locations a little bit at a time. The dog will learn it in the yard but will not easily grasp it in another location without a good amount of training . Start out at short distances and build from there. If you use a vibrate as a command it will also allow you to properly use the stimulation as a correction for non compliance , and not confuse the dog. By what you have said in your post I am not sure you grasp the proper use of an e-collar. If properly used the dog will have been trained it can turn off the stimulation by complying to the command. If you do not understand this the George Hickox videos have a pretty good demonstration on how to train this.

[EvanG]

We have a lot of negative attitude toward the ecollar here in Australia. People are just too quick to judged before they understand the benefits. This has been a topic of discussion of late. Most comments re the vibrate is that it scares the dog? I don't understand? If you used the vibrate and say replaced a clicker, and treat with food so the dog associates with positive experience, this would be good, right? I think this would be a great way to teach here. My dog couldn't give 2 hoots about a food reward, a retreive is what he is after though. As for fetch I agree with touching the dog for signals, if the dog is near you when you release for a retreive this could work well. I'd be interested in how it turns out for you both.

Rockett,

I've discussed this quite a bit with my friend Peter Betteridge in New South Wales. He's a great guy, and trained the first American-bred Labrador to title as a Retrieving Trial Champion there. Like you, he's a common sense chap. The two of you could likely do a lot of good by opening the eyes of other trainers. Good luck!

EvanG

[polmaise]

My brittany Ida is almost 13 and has recently gone deaf. She is a seasoned hunter - great nose, rock steady on point, and a decent retriever for a pointing dog. In order to keep hunting with her, I have started training her to come with an e-collar. I have never trained with an e-collar before, so am learning as I go.

At the age of 13 I would say it's time to retire gracefully for this dog.
Training a young deaf dog for the same activity you want from the Older one with an e-collar ,I would suggest you learn with a hearing dog first.
I personally find a 'blind dog' easier to train ?.....
That said , I very rarely talk to my 'trained dogs' anyway.

[Rockett]

We have a lot of negative attitude toward the ecollar here in Australia. People are just too quick to judged before they understand the benefits. This has been a topic of discussion of late. Most comments re the vibrate is that it scares the dog? I don't understand? If you used the vibrate and say replaced a clicker, and treat with food so the dog associates with positive experience, this would be good, right? I think this would be a great way to teach here. My dog couldn't give 2 hoots about a food reward, a retreive is what he is after though. As for fetch I agree with touching the dog for signals, if the dog is near you when you release for a retreive this could work well. I'd be interested in how it turns out for you both.

Rockett,

I've discussed this quite a bit with my friend Peter Betteridge in New South Wales. He's a great guy, and trained the first American-bred Labrador to title as a Retrieving Trial Champion there. Like you, he's a common sense chap. The two of you could likely do a lot of good by opening the eyes of other trainers. Good luck!

EvanG

Hi Evan, I know Peter well. (He is judging next weekend in Canberra but due to football commitments with the kids i am unable to enter under him). It's just one of those things that I'm pretty sure most people have but won't dare admit they own one! Here in NSW it is legal to own one, but illegal to use one on a dog, go figure! They are just a brilliant tool, I think the OP will have some great success. There is a lot of great information been given here already.

[gonehuntin']

The dog has been a trusted companion for 13 years; I never retire a dog like that. I hunt them until they're dead same as I want to. I'll do and sacrifice anything for them to keep them hunting and living.

I have used tone or vibrate on a collar and it works well. I would never use electircity.