Advise needed with retrieval.

nickt · Post by **nickt** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:36 am

Hi guys, I could do with some advise.

I have a 3 year old retriever who I have just started training. I got the pup as a companion to my Great Dane when my wife had twins and for obvious reasons couldn't spend as much time with him. Three years later our life has returned to sum semblance of normality and I've been able to give my dogs the attention they deserve.

I started obedience training three weeks ago with Apollo, the retriever, 15 min per day. Other than sit he was not familiar with any other commands. To my surprise and amazement he has performed unbelievably. Sit, stay, here, heal and place are performed without hesitation. He can stay at 50 yards with crazy distractions. I'm working through Tom Dokken's book on retriever training.

The problem however lies with retrieving. The little one on one time I spent with him as a pup and young dog involved throwing a tennis ball back and forward till he was bored and he has now very little desire to retrieve. I'll throw a bumper out, he will charge for it as far as it takes for him to establish that it's not food and loose interest. If I rub a piece of hotdog over it he will charge after it lick it and leave it.

I'm trying to up his natural desire to retrieve whilst working on his discipline and before force fetching. Any suggestions ?

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:47 am

If you throw a bumper rubbed with hot dog for the dog and the dog runs out and licks it, you just trained the dog to run out and lick it. Don't waste your time just go straight to force fetch. The whole idea of force fetch is to create a mechanism where you can get the dog to retrieve at a high level in spite of the dogs desire.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:21 am

Back to the tennis ball, but stop before he is bored. Exchange a hot dog slice for the ball with a good many attaboys. Will take a lot of short sessions everyday.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:08 pm

Agree, never should have let him get bored. If he refuse's the tennis ball, go right to a dead bird. That was an excellent excuse for getting a new pup. I think I'd tell the war dept that we really need more kids!

nickt · Post by **nickt** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:18 pm

Thanks for the good advise guys. The obvious mistake with the hotdog only seems obvious to me now that someone with more experience has pointed out the fault in my method.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:37 pm

4dabirds wrote: The whole idea of force fetch is to create a mechanism where you can get the dog to retrieve at a high level in spite of the dogs desire.

Are you 'sure' about this?...
Do you FF before CC or CC before FF?..Or 'how do you FF'? to create this ''mechanism''?....Oh! just about forgot ....How do you get the dogs desire before you 'dis-spite'?
I was kinda following you guys for a while.... now I'm just back to square one! ...Confused.com..

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:11 pm

I'd let him chase and catch a ton of clipiwngs first until he' birds as all get out. Once I knew the dog birds as all get out, I'd ff him. Not all retrievers are good retrievers. If you paid a decent buck and got him from good field stock, your chances are good. If not, it's a crAp shoot. Ff merely gives a dog a clean retrieve, it does not build desire. Ff gives you a tool to correct a problem, nothing more. I ff every dog.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:37 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:I'd let him chase and catch a ton of clipiwngs first until he' birds as all get out.

And then some more!!

Donnytpburge · Post by **Donnytpburge** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:14 pm

You might can ignite his retrieve with another
Dog. I used a finished GSP to help me get my male pointer to do it.
Of course the pointer would outrun the gsp to the bird, but once he picked it up
He new if he did not get it right to me the gsp would take it away and deliver it for him.
The pointer is a solid retriever now. He will fetch anything I shoot or throw
For him as he has figured out that is part of the job.

DB

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:42 pm

nickt wrote:Hi guys, I could do with some advise.

I have a 3 year old retriever who I have just started training.....The problem however lies with retrieving. The little one on one time I spent with him as a pup and young dog involved throwing a tennis ball back and forward till he was bored and he has now very little desire to retrieve. I'll throw a bumper out, he will charge for it as far as it takes for him to establish that it's not food and loose interest. If I rub a piece of hotdog over it he will charge after it lick it and leave it.

I'm trying to up his natural desire to retrieve whilst working on his discipline and before force fetching. Any suggestions ?

Suggestions:

1. Get some pigeons or ducks to throw. Take your time introducing them, as a good program will show you.
2. Start him like you would a puppy because that's what he is in terms of training.

...click on picture/link

EvanG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:31 pm

nickt wrote:Hi guys, I could do with some advise.

I have a 3 year old retriever who I have just started training.
The problem however lies with retrieving.

I'm trying to up his natural desire to retrieve whilst working on his discipline and before force fetching. Any suggestions ?

I'm gonna go against the grain here!:
Instead of all the advice from well respected trainers and handlers and authors of books and DVD'S etc.
I wouldn't throw anything! or entice like a puppy', to get excited about the moving object------that's long gone!
I would (In my personal opinion based on the info) ...would make it exciting to come to You and then get the reward of a ''Retrieve''!..
As I see it, the dog has the anti-climax of bringing the thing back?....Some intelligent psychological doods with diplomas call it 'Backchaining' or something?...But any how, I would concentrate on the last part of the retrieve?...well lets face it, that's what yer problem is brother?
A good trainer can show you this in minutes!...probably quicker than it took me to type .

DoubleBarrel GunDogs · Post by **DoubleBarrel GunDogs** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:36 pm

EvanG wrote:
nickt wrote:Hi guys, I could do with some advise.

I have a 3 year old retriever who I have just started training.....The problem however lies with retrieving. The little one on one time I spent with him as a pup and young dog involved throwing a tennis ball back and forward till he was bored and he has now very little desire to retrieve. I'll throw a bumper out, he will charge for it as far as it takes for him to establish that it's not food and loose interest. If I rub a piece of hotdog over it he will charge after it lick it and leave it.

I'm trying to up his natural desire to retrieve whilst working on his discipline and before force fetching. Any suggestions ?
Suggestions:

1. Get some pigeons or ducks to throw. Take your time introducing them, as a good program will show you.
2. Start him like you would a puppy because that's what he is in terms of training.

...click on picture/link

EvanG

X2
That's good advice right there.

An 8 week old pup and a 3 year old dog will react to their first live bird pretty much the same way most of the time.
Don't assume the dog knows how to handle birds.

Nate

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