Please help a first time trainer.
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Please help a first time trainer.
I am a first time dog trainer and have two 5 month old yellow lab pups, Henry and Hannah. Having two of them raises its own problems mostly the will not retrieve anything when they are together. They are trained in basic obedience, sit, stay, come, heel, etc. Those are not the main problem I took Henry Dove hunting for the first time, it was a really slow evening, and I only got one and missed another, but he did not see that one fall. So I took him down to go get the bird, he found it and took off on a dead sprint. I chased him down and got him to stop after about 50 yards. I made him give me the bird, and congratulated him when he got it. I them played a little fetch with bird and did get him, very hesitantly and only one to get him to bring it back. I am looking for a way to fix this, and I suspect that Hannah will attempt to do the same thing. I believe that my main problem is that they were not introduced to birds, as much as they introduced themselves to birds in the form of chickens. They ate those chickens, and learned that it tastes good. I am wondering how to go about fixing this. I don't think that walking away would help, because he doesn't want me to chase him, he just just wants to eat the bird. Any help would be appreciated, Thank You.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Suggestion #!: Work with one dog for now. Don't have the other one around when training the dog.
Suggestion#2: Buy a programme and stick to it. I like "Perfect Start. Perfect Finish".
https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... oKmI&pbx=1
Suggestion#2: Buy a programme and stick to it. I like "Perfect Start. Perfect Finish".
https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... oKmI&pbx=1
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
For now, train the dogs seperately.
Get on a good, modern, sequential training program.... My choice is the Smartwork Series by Evan Graham.
Quit taking your pups hunting until you have good fundementals laid down.
Get on a good, modern, sequential training program.... My choice is the Smartwork Series by Evan Graham.
Quit taking your pups hunting until you have good fundementals laid down.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Sharon, He has labs . Evan's programs would probably work betterSharon wrote:Suggestion #!: Work with one dog for now. Don't have the other one around when training the dog.
Suggestion#2: Buy a programme and stick to it. I like "Perfect Start. Perfect Finish".
https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... oKmI&pbx=1
Penny4--http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/genview.php?id=3227
Shooter--http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/genview.php?id=3228
Penny5--http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/genview.php?id=3229
Star--http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/genview.php?id=3732
DeSeeker Britts 402-426-4243
Shooter--http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/genview.php?id=3228
Penny5--http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/genview.php?id=3229
Star--http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/genview.php?id=3732
DeSeeker Britts 402-426-4243
- RoostersMom
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Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Not only train them separately, but keep them totally separate as much as you can for the first year. Google littermate syndrome and pay heed to that advice - it will be worth it in the long run.
Get Smartworks by Evan Graham and follow that program to a "T".
Get Smartworks by Evan Graham and follow that program to a "T".
- Legband
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Re: Please help a first time trainer.
I have used the same routine on all my pups and its always worked for me.
Last year I use it on my buddy's dog that had already picked up some bad habits and would also take off with the bird.
Pick up some construction netting 3' high at least 65' long ,
Drive some t posts in the ground, two rows 3' apart on width straight across from each other and 6' apart length wise,
So your posts are paired to create a rectangle 3'wide 30' long,
Rap the construction netting on the two long sides and one end , leaving the other end open,
Sitting at the open end put your pup in the run in front of you , toss a bird to the end the pup has no choice but to return to you ,
Praise the daylights out of him ,
I have only had one pup who sat down and chewed on the bird , so I snapped a 30' lead cord on him and gently pulled him back while commanding fetch it up in three days he didn't need the cord ,
I am confident it will help.
Last year I use it on my buddy's dog that had already picked up some bad habits and would also take off with the bird.
Pick up some construction netting 3' high at least 65' long ,
Drive some t posts in the ground, two rows 3' apart on width straight across from each other and 6' apart length wise,
So your posts are paired to create a rectangle 3'wide 30' long,
Rap the construction netting on the two long sides and one end , leaving the other end open,
Sitting at the open end put your pup in the run in front of you , toss a bird to the end the pup has no choice but to return to you ,
Praise the daylights out of him ,
I have only had one pup who sat down and chewed on the bird , so I snapped a 30' lead cord on him and gently pulled him back while commanding fetch it up in three days he didn't need the cord ,
I am confident it will help.
Joe Hendrex
Hughson Waterfowl
Marsh Mutt Pro-Staff
G&H Decoys Pro-Staff
Hughson Waterfowl
Marsh Mutt Pro-Staff
G&H Decoys Pro-Staff
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
are you near North Platte?
- gonehuntin'
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Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Your first problem is that your dog is NOT obedience trained; if it, were it wouldn't run away and would come when called.
I wouldn't take a five month old dove huntiung.
You need a program; buy and follow Smart Fetch oe Fowl Dawgs.
I wouldn't take a five month old dove huntiung.
You need a program; buy and follow Smart Fetch oe Fowl Dawgs.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
You need to get a training book or dvd, go to a seminar, find a buddy or training group something, you have a lot to learn, but you can do it.
I often train littermates at the same time. Keep one on the stake out while you train the other, then swap. Do not kennel or hunt them together, always keep one on the stake out.
I do let them play some together.
I often train littermates at the same time. Keep one on the stake out while you train the other, then swap. Do not kennel or hunt them together, always keep one on the stake out.
I do let them play some together.
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Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Neil wrote:You need to get a training book or dvd, go to a seminar, find a buddy or training group something, you have a lot to learn, but you can do it.
I often train littermates at the same time. Keep one on the stake out while you train the other, then swap. Do not kennel or hunt them together, always keep one on the stake out.
I do let them play some together.
^^^ yup ^^^
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
You have several problems, not one. But it's good that you're seeking solutions.huntinghusker wrote:I am a first time dog trainer and have two 5 month old yellow lab pups, Henry and Hannah. Having two of them raises its own problems mostly the will not retrieve anything when they are together. They are trained in basic obedience, sit, stay, come, heel, etc. Those are not the main problem I took Henry Dove hunting for the first time, it was a really slow evening, and I only got one and missed another, but he did not see that one fall. So I took him down to go get the bird, he found it and took off on a dead sprint. I chased him down and got him to stop after about 50 yards. I made him give me the bird, and congratulated him when he got it. I them played a little fetch with bird and did get him, very hesitantly and only one to get him to bring it back. I am looking for a way to fix this, and I suspect that Hannah will attempt to do the same thing. I believe that my main problem is that they were not introduced to birds, as much as they introduced themselves to birds in the form of chickens. They ate those chickens, and learned that it tastes good. I am wondering how to go about fixing this. I don't think that walking away would help, because he doesn't want me to chase him, he just just wants to eat the bird. Any help would be appreciated, Thank You.
First, they are not obeying fundamental commands because they are distracted. That indicates that they are taught, but not trained. It's time. We e-collar condition our pups to "Here" ('come') at about 4 months old. Here is a glimpse of that process.
There is more to it, of course. But you get the idea. You won't have any refusals that you can't swiftly and efficiently deal with following that. But you must also start training these pups individually - not in tandem. You're begging for failure to train them together in any session...at least for right now.
Second, there are two cardinal (unforgivable) sins a retriever can commit. One is refusing to make an effort to comply with direction/command. The other is eating birds. You have both, and you should forget hunting or field events entirely until these two 'sins' are dead and buried! They're young. They have many seasons ahead...IF you take care of their training first. It's time to really train.
Training is a 3-phase process; Teach, Force, Reinforce. Study hard, and start training before any more time passes.
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
- AZ Brittany Guy
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Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Huntinghusker....Listen to this man.EvanG wrote:You have several problems, not one. But it's good that you're seeking solutions.huntinghusker wrote:I am a first time dog trainer and have two 5 month old yellow lab pups, Henry and Hannah. Having two of them raises its own problems mostly the will not retrieve anything when they are together. They are trained in basic obedience, sit, stay, come, heel, etc. Those are not the main problem I took Henry Dove hunting for the first time, it was a really slow evening, and I only got one and missed another, but he did not see that one fall. So I took him down to go get the bird, he found it and took off on a dead sprint. I chased him down and got him to stop after about 50 yards. I made him give me the bird, and congratulated him when he got it. I them played a little fetch with bird and did get him, very hesitantly and only one to get him to bring it back. I am looking for a way to fix this, and I suspect that Hannah will attempt to do the same thing. I believe that my main problem is that they were not introduced to birds, as much as they introduced themselves to birds in the form of chickens. They ate those chickens, and learned that it tastes good. I am wondering how to go about fixing this. I don't think that walking away would help, because he doesn't want me to chase him, he just just wants to eat the bird. Any help would be appreciated, Thank You.
First, they are not obeying fundamental commands because they are distracted. That indicates that they are taught, but not trained. It's time. We e-collar condition our pups to "Here" ('come') at about 4 months old. Here is a glimpse of that process.
There is more to it, of course. But you get the idea. You won't have any refusals that you can't swiftly and efficiently deal with following that. But you must also start training these pups individually - not in tandem. You're begging for failure to train them together in any session...at least for right now.
Second, there are two cardinal (unforgivable) sins a retriever can commit. One is refusing to make an effort to comply with direction/command. The other is eating birds. You have both, and you should forget hunting or field events entirely until these two 'sins' are dead and buried! They're young. They have many seasons ahead...IF you take care of their training first. It's time to really train.
Training is a 3-phase process; Teach, Force, Reinforce. Study hard, and start training before any more time passes.
EvanG
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
OK Guy's, although huntingsucker' has not replied, and the eloquent answers so far would hopefully put a newcomer on the right path for success with encouragement.huntinghusker wrote:I am a first time dog trainer and have two 5 month old yellow lab pups,
Having two of them raises its own problems
I took Henry Dove hunting for the first time,
So I took him down to go get the bird, he found it and took off on a dead sprint. I chased him down and got him to stop after about 50 yards. I made him give me the bird, and congratulated him when he got it.
I am looking for a way to fix this, and I suspect that Hannah will attempt to do the same thing.
I believe that my main problem is that they were not introduced to birds,
as much as they introduced themselves to birds in the form of chickens. They ate those chickens, and learned that it tastes good.
I am wondering how to go about fixing this.
he just just wants to eat the bird.
Any help would be appreciated, Thank You.
I am sure from the OP that this newcomer to the grande ole world of dog training has had some previous thought and consideration before embarking on the task of taking on two young siblings at the same time,so the comments so far I feel are a bit overpowering and may be asking too much on this aspiring owner to do the right thing in his/her quest for help?
As for direction to a recognised programme?..and it is in no way directed to Evans invaluable piece!!! ,but I have to ask myself and the OP? that even Evan's programme may be a bridge too far, if the situation as described is anything to consider?....Even the terminology for a newcomer can have doubt and confusion , for which others see as 'understandable'?
If it is totally understandable?..then I have to ask 'Why is the situation as it is'?////
I believe the OP requires help and guidance ,but it must be even more confusing receiving it here?
Just a thought?
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
First, if he decides to train via Smartwork he would be well advised to include our first book, Smartwork for Retrievers volume one, which has an extensive glossary of terms to help the new trainer to learn the vocabulary of retriever training. Picking a package that includes this book will also save him 15% on all materials included in the package.polmaise wrote:As for direction to a recognised programme?..and it is in no way directed to Evans invaluable piece!!! ,but I have to ask myself and the OP? that even Evan's programme may be a bridge too far, if the situation as described is anything to consider?....Even the terminology for a newcomer can have doubt and confusion , for which others see as 'understandable'?
If it is totally understandable?..then I have to ask 'Why is the situation as it is'?////
I believe the OP requires help and guidance ,but it must be even more confusing receiving it here?
Just a thought?
The situation exists as it does because he's clearly not following a credible program. Hence the suggestion to get one!
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
deseeker wrote:Sharon, He has labs . Evan's programs would probably work betterSharon wrote:Suggestion #!: Work with one dog for now. Don't have the other one around when training the dog.
Suggestion#2: Buy a programme and stick to it. I like "Perfect Start. Perfect Finish".
https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... oKmI&pbx=1
Absolutely. Sorry. I missed that. My brain is fixated on setters.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Easy Evan! I'm with you......But to me it sounds like a salesmanEvanG wrote: First, if he decides to train via Smartwork he would be well advised to include our first book, Smartwork for Retrievers volume one, which has an extensive glossary of terms to help the new trainer to learn the vocabulary of retriever training. Picking a package that includes this book will also save him 15% on all materials included in the package.
The situation exists as it does because he's clearly not following a credible program. Hence the suggestion to get one!
EvanG
I'm just going on what is printed by the OP!.....and is very typical of most newcomers?>>> looking for help.
Knowledgeable folk such as yourself and others on here, sometimes fall on 'jargon' and phrases ,and concepts that perhaps?, some coming from a less knowledgeable base (regarding dog training) can find confusing?...or lack the 'base' to start?>> let's face it..if these books and dvd's were so worldly known to the first timer, then surely they would have read/seen them before situation arises??....heck you just gotta google 'dog training'??
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Many salesmen are NOT con artists. One is not the same as the other.
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
I agree Evan, but that isn't helping the OP>?
He doesn't know how to get his dog's to re-call with a bird in the gob!
He doesn't know how to get his dog's to re-call with a bird in the gob!
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
He would learn how quickly with a proven program. That's why they have value to people. I don't understand the resistance based on your assertions.polmaise wrote:I agree Evan, but that isn't helping the OP>?
He doesn't know how to get his dog's to re-call with a bird in the gob!
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
I'll await the reply from the OP.
- gonehuntin'
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Re: Please thelp a first time trainer.
The OP made the same basic mistake I see many newe dog owners make: He bought the dog THEN decided to learn how to train them.
A more prudent approach would have been to buy the training material first, study it, THEN buy the pups. One would have been plenty!
A more prudent approach would have been to buy the training material first, study it, THEN buy the pups. One would have been plenty!
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
We don't know that?.> He may have read books and seen dvd's?...then bought the pup's? on the premise 'that the books and dvd's he had read and seen?
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
ROFLMBOEvanG wrote:
Many salesmen are NOT con artists. One is not the same as the other.
EvanG
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
- gonehuntin'
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Re: Please help a first time trainer.
If he'd had FOLLOWED a reliable program: 1). He wouldn't have taken a 5 month old pup DOVE hunting.polmaise wrote:We don't know that?.> He may have read books and seen dvd's?...then bought the pup's? on the premise 'that the books and dvd's he had read and seen?
2) The pup would have come when called and NOT played keep away.
Possibility three is that he bought the material and didn't follow it or followed it in a hap-hazard manor.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
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Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Sorry I did not reply sooner. Thanks for the comments. I will have to get a training program, but I feel I need to explain some things more I didn't have a long drawn out decision to buy the pups before training, it was more opportunity. Me and my parents got them as farm/hunting dogs for the price of the shots. I also knew that 5 months old was probably too young, but I did not want to wait a whole year because they are definitely not going to be old enough to go pheasant hunting, and our duck lake dried up again so this was the only hunting opportunity for a year. I don't think the idea with a pen would work, because he was not playing keep away for fun, he thought he was in trouble, and he is protective of anything he can eat. Part of competition with his sister. I do not believe he has distinguished the difference between attacking a chicken, and pick up a dove. He is obedience trained just probably not as much as he needs to be. I did not have to literally chase him down, he stopped after I called a couple of times, and even took a few steps toward me as I was closing the distance. I do think I will need to try the check cord, I do not know why I did not think of that. Thanks for all the help again.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
ALWAYS EASIER TO FIND FAULT AND CRITICIZE THAN TO HELP.gonehuntin' wrote:If he'd had FOLLOWED a reliable program: 1). He wouldn't have taken a 5 month old pup DOVE hunting.polmaise wrote:We don't know that?.> He may have read books and seen dvd's?...then bought the pup's? on the premise 'that the books and dvd's he had read and seen?
2) The pup would have come when called and NOT played keep away.
Possibility three is that he bought the material and didn't follow it or followed it in a hap-hazard manor.
Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207
It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207
It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
I was looking at the situation from a different angle?Sharon wrote:ROFLMBOEvanG wrote:
Many salesmen are NOT con artists. One is not the same as the other.
EvanG
In the context of the picture ,the situation is that the salesman is offering another tool which 'we' can see as the solution to the immediate problem,but the potential purchaser already has a more pressing dilemma !There is also the consideration that the purchaser does not know how to use this new saviour (tool) and what would happen if the naive' young knight abandons his trusty sword and the new tool jams or has a stoppage or runs out of ammo?..The salesman in this picture would then be sending the young knight to a mortal end!?
So I do agree that the picture does present a solution,however it requires more than selling the new found tool? The purchaser has to learn how to use it and maintain it!
So yes Sharon ROFLMBO from a different view
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
It is not the end of the world. Many pups want to run off with their first bird and attempt to eat it. Use a check cord and pigeons. One pup at a time. A five month old pup is probably going to run off with his first bird no matter how good his recall is.
Sounds like you are a thinking person and will figure this out. If the pup was that easy to catch and came toward you it will probably be pretty natural. I have had some you couldn't catch until he ate the bird they get over it. It is not rocket science and pups are pups. I would take them pheasant hunting one at a time when they are a bit older. Good Luck ...................................Cj
Sounds like you are a thinking person and will figure this out. If the pup was that easy to catch and came toward you it will probably be pretty natural. I have had some you couldn't catch until he ate the bird they get over it. It is not rocket science and pups are pups. I would take them pheasant hunting one at a time when they are a bit older. Good Luck ...................................Cj
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
5 month old pup wanting to run off with a bird = not a big deal...pretty common...you'll be able to train through it.
5 month old pup eating a bird = BIG DEAL!...Has in many cases been something that has ended careers of good dogs. Ignore it at your own risk.
35 years of training retrievers professionally teaches you some things, and this is one of them. This is not a small thing.
EvanG
5 month old pup eating a bird = BIG DEAL!...Has in many cases been something that has ended careers of good dogs. Ignore it at your own risk.
35 years of training retrievers professionally teaches you some things, and this is one of them. This is not a small thing.
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
- gonehuntin'
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- Location: NE WI.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
It's also always easier to do thing correctly. There is NO way members on this forum can adequately outline a training program for the person. Therefore, the safest, best and easiest thing is to buy Smart Fetch of Fowl Dawgs and follow it. Then, if problems arise, questions can be asked on here.ezzy333 wrote:ALWAYS EASIER TO FIND FAULT AND CRITICIZE THAN TO HELP.gonehuntin' wrote:If he'd had FOLLOWED a reliable program: 1). He wouldn't have taken a 5 month old pup DOVE hunting.polmaise wrote:We don't know that?.> He may have read books and seen dvd's?...then bought the pup's? on the premise 'that the books and dvd's he had read and seen?
2) The pup would have come when called and NOT played keep away.
Possibility three is that he bought the material and didn't follow it or followed it in a hap-hazard manor.
Ezzy
Rather than have people babbling on about what they would do, it's best to simply buy an organized program and follow it. That way there are no conflicting opinions to deal with or sort through. IMO.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Have you ever seen one go through FF and then eat birds?EvanG wrote:5 month old pup wanting to run off with a bird = not a big deal...pretty common...you'll be able to train through it.
5 month old pup eating a bird = BIG DEAL!...Has in many cases been something that has ended careers of good dogs. Ignore it at your own risk.
35 years of training retrievers professionally teaches you some things, and this is one of them. This is not a small thing.
EvanG
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Honestly, no...not if it was done thoroughly. But I have seen many over the years that were poorly trained, or not trained at all that ate birds and developed such a taste for it that they were never able to be relied upon not to be rough on birds. It's just one of those things some dogs have a proclivity toward that could be avoided through early training.Neil wrote:Have you ever seen one go through FF and then eat birds?EvanG wrote:5 month old pup wanting to run off with a bird = not a big deal...pretty common...you'll be able to train through it.
5 month old pup eating a bird = BIG DEAL!...Has in many cases been something that has ended careers of good dogs. Ignore it at your own risk.
35 years of training retrievers professionally teaches you some things, and this is one of them. This is not a small thing.
EvanG
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Or a good FFing.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Agree. One and the same!Neil wrote:Or a good FFing.
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
- Donnytpburge
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:16 am
- Location: Mississippi
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Hunting Husker:
You have not done anything wrong so don't let the negative comments get you down.
You can go buy all the manuals and programs you want, but none of it is going to be as beneficial as your hunting experience.
As any job nothing beats boots on the ground getting it done.
In my opinion the best program for any pup is to take them hunting, let them learn from there own mistakes, and keep it fun.
Remember the only judgment you & your dog needs to be concerned with is yours.
DB
You have not done anything wrong so don't let the negative comments get you down.
You can go buy all the manuals and programs you want, but none of it is going to be as beneficial as your hunting experience.
As any job nothing beats boots on the ground getting it done.
In my opinion the best program for any pup is to take them hunting, let them learn from there own mistakes, and keep it fun.
Remember the only judgment you & your dog needs to be concerned with is yours.
DB
- gonehuntin'
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 4870
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
- Location: NE WI.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
A reply like that is why you need a training program.Donnytpburge wrote:Hunting Husker:
You have not done anything wrong so don't let the negative comments get you down.
You can go buy all the manuals and programs you want, but none of it is going to be as beneficial as your hunting experience.
As any job nothing beats boots on the ground getting it done.
In my opinion the best program for any pup is to take them hunting, let them learn from there own mistakes, and keep it fun.
Remember the only judgment you & your dog needs to be concerned with is yours.
DB
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
So why are there so many who follow an organized program on forums asking questions?gonehuntin' wrote: Rather than have people babbling on about what they would do, it's best to simply buy an organized program and follow it. That way there are no conflicting opinions to deal with or sort through. IMO.
Or is it just conflicting with what one believes?
Others do and should have an opinion! ..The alternative option is to not reply.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
If you look just as hard as you can for advice that is wholeheartedly backwards, you won't find your objectives met any more fully that the reply above. One of the worst things you can do is to take an under trained retriever hunting. The risks far outweigh the benefits. Train, then hunt. Being lucky and being smart are different things. Play it smart.Donnytpburge wrote:Hunting Husker:
You have not done anything wrong so don't let the negative comments get you down.
You can go buy all the manuals and programs you want, but none of it is going to be as beneficial as your hunting experience.
As any job nothing beats boots on the ground getting it done.
In my opinion the best program for any pup is to take them hunting, let them learn from there own mistakes, and keep it fun.
Remember the only judgment you & your dog needs to be concerned with is yours.
DB
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Must be confusing for a newcomer hearing many different views and advice.
The differentials also depending on breed and intended purpose. One minute someone is advising to get the dog hunting and introduced to game at the earliest opportunity, and others advising to do different. Then well respected folks advising on methods for different purposes and end results
In between is the more experienced debating outside the newcomers understanding!
The differentials also depending on breed and intended purpose. One minute someone is advising to get the dog hunting and introduced to game at the earliest opportunity, and others advising to do different. Then well respected folks advising on methods for different purposes and end results
In between is the more experienced debating outside the newcomers understanding!
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
The dog was going to eat birds and has no recall, what will the next problem be? Both of these problems may seem rudimentary to the experienced, to the inexperienced they are not. Couple this reality with the fact that the OP came on here and asked for help...there are only two reasonable paths, professional help in person or a defined and measurable system to follow delivered in an understandable medium. The other suggestions are symptom relievers and do not reach the heart of the problem.
Of course he needs a program or programme. If he followed that advice he would be well on his way. Those of you who find such disdain in the idea that someone markets and sells an idea such as dog training should ask yourself why you object. Is it moral ground? Do you expect these products will cause incurable disease or epidemic? Maybe they are breaking down a moral fiber. Perhaps you just do things differently and mask your insecurity in sarcasm and skepticism for others...yes, I suspect that's it.
Of course he needs a program or programme. If he followed that advice he would be well on his way. Those of you who find such disdain in the idea that someone markets and sells an idea such as dog training should ask yourself why you object. Is it moral ground? Do you expect these products will cause incurable disease or epidemic? Maybe they are breaking down a moral fiber. Perhaps you just do things differently and mask your insecurity in sarcasm and skepticism for others...yes, I suspect that's it.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
ahh yes and then someone with only enough clarity to amuse himself while being a much greater part of the problem than anything resembling a solutionpolmaise wrote:Must be confusing for a newcomer hearing many different views and advice.The differentials also depending on breed and intended purpose. One minute someone is advising to get the dog hunting and introduced to game at the earliest opportunity, and others advising to do different. Then well respected folks advising on methods for different purposes and end results In between is the more experienced debating outside the newcomers understanding!
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
That would be a visit to a trainerChukar12 wrote:ahh yes and then someone with only enough clarity to amuse himself while being a much greater part of the problem than anything resembling a solutionpolmaise wrote:Must be confusing for a newcomer hearing many different views and advice.The differentials also depending on breed and intended purpose. One minute someone is advising to get the dog hunting and introduced to game at the earliest opportunity, and others advising to do different. Then well respected folks advising on methods for different purposes and end results In between is the more experienced debating outside the newcomers understanding!
I'm pretty full right now, and a bit far away.
-
- Rank: 2X Champion
- Posts: 499
- Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:33 pm
- Location: Western Colorado
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
On the bright side your pups have good prey drive. On the down size you probably have a hard mouth / bird eating problem that will take a good ff program to straighten out.
My advice: Don't assume the gun intro is complete. Decide on a good comprehensive training program and follow through. Employ the chain gang to help train the pups independently. Seek the help of a pro trainer if you have the funds.
Evan has given you some good advise as well.
Good luck,
Nate
My advice: Don't assume the gun intro is complete. Decide on a good comprehensive training program and follow through. Employ the chain gang to help train the pups independently. Seek the help of a pro trainer if you have the funds.
Evan has given you some good advise as well.
Good luck,
Nate
- Donnytpburge
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:16 am
- Location: Mississippi
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Gonehuntin & Evan
Are you saying that a teenager should not take his dog hunting?
Are you saying the teenager would better off spending his money on some DVD
Products and just train the dog for the first year?
Are you saying he should just ship his dogs to a trainer so they
Will be perfect for a one dove hunt?
I know what I'm saying, get on the HUNT program and have fun!
Db
Are you saying that a teenager should not take his dog hunting?
Are you saying the teenager would better off spending his money on some DVD
Products and just train the dog for the first year?
Are you saying he should just ship his dogs to a trainer so they
Will be perfect for a one dove hunt?
I know what I'm saying, get on the HUNT program and have fun!
Db
- gonehuntin'
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 4870
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
- Location: NE WI.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Not a dog that won't come when he's called and eats birds.Donnytpburge wrote: Gonehuntin & Evan
Are you saying that a teenager should not take his dog hunting?
Yes. That would be the most intelligent thing to do and would benefit both man and dog.Donnytpburge wrote: Are you saying the teenager would better off spending his money on some DVD
Products and just train the dog for the first year?
Yes, and so the dog will be a competent hunting partner for the rest of the dog's career.Donnytpburge wrote: Are you saying he should just ship his dogs to a trainer so they
Will be perfect for a one dove hunt?
We can only hope that the young man is intelligent to not follow such incompetent advice.Donnytpburge wrote:I know what I'm saying, get on the HUNT program and have fun!
Db
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
- gonehuntin'
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 4870
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
- Location: NE WI.
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Get used to it and suck it up. That's life on the net.polmaise wrote:Must be confusing for a newcomer hearing many different views and advice.
The differentials also depending on breed and intended purpose. One minute someone is advising to get the dog hunting and introduced to game at the earliest opportunity, and others advising to do different. Then well respected folks advising on methods for different purposes and end results
In between is the more experienced debating outside the newcomers understanding!
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
- Donnytpburge
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:16 am
- Location: Mississippi
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Huntinghusker
I wish you the best of luck with your pups.
I don't want to post anything negative on your thread so I'm gonna
Bow out of this conversation before I lose my temper.
Db
I wish you the best of luck with your pups.
I don't want to post anything negative on your thread so I'm gonna
Bow out of this conversation before I lose my temper.
Db
- Legband
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:44 pm
- Location: Central California
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
EvanG wrote:Donnytpburge wrote:Hunting Husker:
You have not done anything wrong so don't let the negative comments get you down.
You can go buy all the manuals and programs you want, but none of it is going to be as beneficial as your hunting experience.
As any job nothing beats boots on the ground getting it done.
In my opinion the best program for any pup is to take them hunting, let them learn from there own mistakes, and keep it fun.
EvanG
Thanks for your encouragement to the young man Donny , I think that often times seasoned Gun Dog Owners forget being a boy with his first dog , now I'm not saying that technically its not good advise for someone to study up on training a Dog before they get one , but in all honesty who starts out that way.
The first Dog is more about a Love affair with the sport and yes with the Dog , not one person on this forum started out with the same understanding , time , money and ability to, devote to their dogs , that they have now ,and that's a lot to ask of a high school kid .
Not to mention as far as the dog go's he said it was five months old , with just a couple easy steps you can make the dog return and stop chewing birds .
Anyway thanks again I hate to see new people to our sport discouraged especially youngsters.
Joe Hendrex
Hughson Waterfowl
Marsh Mutt Pro-Staff
G&H Decoys Pro-Staff
Hughson Waterfowl
Marsh Mutt Pro-Staff
G&H Decoys Pro-Staff
- Donnytpburge
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:16 am
- Location: Mississippi
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Legband
You got the point, explained it a lot better
Than I could.
Thanks
Db
You got the point, explained it a lot better
Than I could.
Thanks
Db
Re: Please help a first time trainer.
Smart people. But I obviously agree that when most of us start out we don't know better. Once you do know better, doesn't it obligate you to act in the best interests of your dog?Legband wrote:...now I'm not saying that technically its not good advise for someone to study up on training a Dog before they get one , but in all honesty who starts out that way.
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum