Sitting On the Whoa Board

[SettersForever]

I bought a female setter pup...she's 12 weeks...I've been following George Hickox's Great Beginnings ie.. clicker training. It's amazing how this dog takes to training! She's a great learner. However I'm wondering if sitting on the whoa board is going to be an issue with her. When I have her stand on the whoa board she is fine, I click her and treat her. As I work on whoa I step back a couple of steps and click and treat. About half the time when I step back she sits. I move back in and stand her up and try again. She doesn't seem to get that she's supposed to stand. I am looking for birds for her and figure that over time she'll forget about sitting when she's on point. When we advance in the whoa training and I collar condition her I'll begin by putting the e-collar around her belly. Does it sound like I'm going in the right direction? I haven't introduced her to a whoa barrel yet maybe this will help then I can tie both ends of the dog to stand. I really like the low pressure of the clicker training. BTW - I haven't taught her to sit - she just does.

[Gordon Guy]

Have you been teaching "Sit"? Also, 12 weeks.....?, wow you're moving right along with the training. I would slow down and let pup be a puppy. I too want to move puppies along so they can be productive in the field, however, it has been counter productive for me by causing me problems later.

[Neil]

Slowly.

[Chukar12]

Some of these concepts are difficult with just the video. One of the reactions to clicker training is a dog that will present behaviors to get rewarded, it is likely that either that; or the pup has acclimated t.o the place board as a reward and is sitting to be comfortable. Remember, that the training is progressive. If the pup is enthusiastic about the board and reliable, stop clicking and rewarding getting on the board. Change to walking away and only reward the standing after you walk away. If the pup sits, mark the behavior simply with "wrong" lead the pup off the board and try again. Eventually the pup will relate that standing only is what gets rewarded and you can increase your distance and time. By the way, if it was me I would not yet overlay any command. You have the board for a cue and I would get the dog reliable before I " named " the behavior.

[SettersForever]

Thanks for the advice! Chukar12 .. I have not been teaching sit... I have not been using commands except for recall... she is very enthusiastic about the board... I will work on progressing slowly...btw she learned to jump on the board after one session...5 min. since then she knows what the board is for... I have moved to two boards and place them in different parts of the yard. I move her between the two and have been throwing in a little recall. She responds well, I only work about 5-10 min per session and at most 2 sessions per day. The rest of the time she plays with me and my kids. Which even includes the occasional fetch. I am careful not to over train in one session. If I introduce something new I only work on one thing. I will definitely slow down... I just don't want her sitting all the time, I know setters like to sit. So the plan is to only reward on the board when she stands and not just when she first jumps on. I'll try to report next week.

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

Some of these concepts are difficult with just the video. One of the reactions to clicker training is a dog that will present behaviors to get rewarded, it is likely that either that; or the pup has acclimated t.o the place board as a reward and is sitting to be comfortable. Remember, that the training is progressive. If the pup is enthusiastic about the board and reliable, stop clicking and rewarding getting on the board. Change to walking away and only reward the standing after you walk away. If the pup sits, mark the behavior simply with "wrong" lead the pup off the board and try again. Eventually the pup will relate that standing only is what gets rewarded and you can increase your distance and time. By the way, if it was me I would not yet overlay any command. You have the board for a cue and I would get the dog reliable before I " named " the behavior.

+1

Keep in mind that not all cues are verbal. The pup has learned that when you step away it should sit. You can easily develop an undesired behavior without realizing why. Consistent repetition can work both for or against your goals. Be sure to break everything down into very small parts with click and treat, and think in terms of shaping behavior.

Nate

[Trekmoor]

I have never trained a dog using a placeboard so I could be barking up the wrong tree here ?..... Could the pup be thinking, " When he leaves me behind here, if I sit he always comes back to me again ??? In other words, in the pup's mind you are rewarding the sit by returning to it. Sorry I can't offer any real advice but that was the thought that at once went through my head.

Bill T.

[S&J gsp]

Or could it be some dogs just have a natural tendency to sit. And we are making a big deal over nothing if the dog sits simply pick it back up let's face it we are dealing with a pup

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

If the behavior to sit is ever rewarded, the pup could easily use this to get the reward. The cue can be anything from verbal to a step back or any other visual, physical or audible cue for that matter. The dog will try to win the reward until it performs the behavior that works. Its at that very moment that you mark (click) the desired behavior. This sends a clear message to the dog.

Nate

[tailcrackin]

Sitting most times, is caused by pressure, or confusion. The dog sounds pretty smart. Thanks Jonesy

[Neil]

THE PUP IS 12 WEEKS OLD!!!

Mine are still eating my shoe laces at that age.

Ease off and enjoy.

There are no prizes for the youngest to do things. There are many for being the best.

[4dabirds]

I think every one gave you sound advice here. I don't know if you have used target training with the clicker which allows you to establish a way to communicate to the dog that the behavior it is exhibiting is not bad but at this time it is something that is not rewardable. By using target training you get a dog that, will on its own offer behaviors for reward. THis would help you since when the dog is sitting you could just give it an eh-eh and move on without any reward. The dog then works harder to get the reward and tries to find the solution that will get it You may have inadvertently through bad timing clicked on the dog sitting. It would take only one repetition for this to sink in. The behavior is stepping onto the board and standing still for a period of time. The click comes when the part of the behavior you are working on is complete. I trained a dog that was afraid of stepping onto a dog ramp , with one foot, laid out flat on a driveway, to go up the ramp into a pickup. I first had to click on one foot being on the ramp before i could click two and so forth. So if the dog is stepping onto the board the click should come long before the dog has had any chance of beginning to sit down. If the dog is immediately sitting down do not click at all , say eh-eh or wrong and let the dog try again only clicking when it is successful . Make sure the dog is very hungry so that the reward has more meaning. If the dog is very hungry it will be more motivated to get the reward and there fore will think harder about how to get the reward. Another point hat comes to mind is to make the place board so small that the dog can not move on it without coming off or sit down. You can also put a line of tape on the front of the board for the dog to stand on and work up to clicking only when the paws are on the tape. Another point is if the dog gets on the board , you click and then the dog sits down and you reward. This is not such a bad thing since the portion of the behavior which you have clicked , getting onto the board was successful. What ever happens after the click is not important. What is important is that you recognize this as a behavior chain as in the ramp training. In this situation you should withhold the click ,gradually increasing the time that the dog is on the board standing. The dog will learn to anticipate the click as taking longer to achieve and if the dog is hungry as well as motivated enough it will wait. By doing this you can have a dog that is self motivated to stand for long periods of time if not indefinitely for the click. Remember the click timing is the most important the treat timing can take a period of time to come and the dog will still connect it with the behavior.

[Wendy M]

Setters Forever, before moving yourself backwards from the dog - how about working on some duration of the stand while you keep still, then work on adding some small movement from yourself - so first just do a foot wiggle and click and treat for the stand, then add a small step to the side and C/T then a step to the other side and C/T next just move one foot back and C/T then the other C/T - get the idea? Just move in smaller increments than you are currently to give the dog time to try to work out how to get the click/treat.

Wendy

[displaced_texan]

THE PUP IS 12 WEEKS OLD!!!

Mine are still eating my shoe laces at that age.

Ease off and enjoy.

There are no prizes for the youngest to do things. There are many for being the best.

I can't imagine teaching woah at that age.

I had a dog that sat on woah all the time. Very stylish and never sat on a point.

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

THE PUP IS 12 WEEKS OLD!!!

Mine are still eating my shoe laces at that age.

Ease off and enjoy.

There are no prizes for the youngest to do things. There are many for being the best.

I can't imagine teaching woah at that age.

I had a dog that sat on woah all the time. Very stylish and never sat on a point.

When using this program its important to understand that you're not teaching any commands but are rewarding desireable behavior. By shaping the behavior to step on and eventually stand on the board, you're effectively teaching the pup what you want in a non forcful and no pressure manner. When the behavior becomes second nature to the dog the cue is introduced or overlayed.

Nate

[SettersForever]

Thanks to everyone for your advice - I have been taking things very slowly with the pup. No commands, just making sure she stands for a few more seconds before C/T. It really worked well. 2nd session she only sat once. Like I said she is very eager to get a treat. I make sure everything is low pressure and fun. Now if I can only find some pigeons to get her introduced to birds. I can't wait to see what she does. Anyone from Western Iowa know where I can get my hands on a couple pigeons?