Gun Dog Forum

I have a question my 5 1/2 month old lab has been doing really good with dove hunting and retrieving but I have still been doing a lot of obedience training Come,Heel,Sit,Stay,Down,Blind-place, so yesterday I did the 15 min of training in the back yard and decided take him out to the farm see if we cant shoot a few birds have some fun with him. well I shot the first bird it went down about 70 yards away he went and grabbed it and I commanded Come he dropped the bird and came to me then I lined him up again and sent him on the bird again and didn't say anything and he brought it right back. This Happened 5 Times where if he had it in his mouth I commanded come and he would drop it and come to me.. Anyone have any Ideas why he is doing this ? and what I can do to fix it so he holds it and does not drop it.


Thanks
Joey
Pro-Staff
Team Fowl Nutts

He's defaulting to what he knows he should do in that moment. I'd ease up on the OB work a little and concentrate on having him retrieve. Keep it fun for him. Maybe instead of commanding here just whistle twice to get him coming in. You've got lots of time for OB, work on fostering a good retrieve right now, to hand if possible. praise is your friend at this point.

Thats my 2 cents anyway.....

zink2013 wrote:I have a question my 5 1/2 month old lab has been doing really good with dove hunting and retrieving but I have still been doing a lot of obedience training Come,Heel,Sit,Stay,Down,Blind-place, so yesterday I did the 15 min of training in the back yard and decided take him out to the farm see if we cant shoot a few birds have some fun with him. well I shot the first bird it went down about 70 yards away he went and grabbed it and I commanded Come he dropped the bird and came to me then I lined him up again and sent him on the bird again and didn't say anything and he brought it right back. This Happened 5 Times where if he had it in his mouth I commanded come and he would drop it and come to me.. Anyone have any Ideas why he is doing this ? and what I can do to fix it so he holds it and does not drop it.


Thanks
Joey
Pro-Staff
Team Fowl Nutts

Yes, train the dog; then hunt. He's right at the age to begin formal Basics. That is what he should be doing with all his days, not hunting. I realize how direct I'm being, but I would do you no service to white wash this. It over 35 years of training retrievers you learn a thing or two.



Take your time. Be thorough. Your pup has many more seasons to hunt when he's trained to do his job. Right now taking him to the field to hunt is an invitation to a host of bad habits he does not have the tools to deal with.

EvanG

EvanG wrote:
Take your time. Be thorough. Your pup has many more seasons to hunt when he's trained to do his job. Right now taking him to the field to hunt is an invitation to a host of bad habits he does not have the tools to deal with.

EvanG

+ 1 ...
Which also coincides with another thread running on here!
viewtopic.php?f=89&t=43956

If he goes and picks it up why are you recalling him? Is he buggering off? Try to keep quiet and see what he chooses to do. When you call him maybe he just thinks he needs to get back ASAP so the bird is no longer a priority.

Backchain to hold!
Or better still. start a program you are happy with, then you won't have to back chain

polmaise wrote:Backchain to hold!
Or better still. start a program you are happy with, then you won't have to back chain

LOL you love the "programs" eh? Wish we had em for spaniels hahahaha

CDN_Cocker wrote:

polmaise wrote:Backchain to hold!
Or better still. start a program you are happy with, then you won't have to back chain

LOL you love the "programs" eh? Wish we had em for spaniels hahahaha

''we'' do!

CDN_Cocker wrote:If he goes and picks it up why are you recalling him? Is he buggering off? Try to keep quiet and see what he chooses to do. When you call him maybe he just thinks he needs to get back ASAP so the bird is no longer a priority.

If he does not come as called and deliver to hand he is not retrieving. He is just a 'go getter', and that is not the useful function that brings game to hand.

EvanG

EvanG wrote:

CDN_Cocker wrote:If he goes and picks it up why are you recalling him? Is he buggering off? Try to keep quiet and see what he chooses to do. When you call him maybe he just thinks he needs to get back ASAP so the bird is no longer a priority.

If he does not come as called and deliver to hand he is not retrieving. He is just a 'go getter', and that is not the useful function that brings game to hand.

EvanG

I agree but perhaps he would come back without being recalled. Maybe the 2 things at once are overwhelming him - he's young

Just speaking from experience, i had this same problem with my lab about 5 months ago.
He had not been FF'd so he tried to play "keep away" but also listened to my "here" command (if that makes since)
so he would try to keep the prize away and still listen.
If he hasn't been FF i would recommend it soon whenever you decide/program says to
Isaac and Banks

He is young, it is hot, and dove drop feathers.

Just keep working with him, don't do anything drastic.

I did understand when sent the second time he did fine?

We also see this in respose to taking the bird too fast from the pup. He drops the bird because he is doesn't want to give it up to you. When he comes in with a bird, let him prance around you with the bird and praise and pet him. After a few seconds and before he drops it, takke the bird and praise him. Never be in a hurry to take the bird from a pup. He is getting that ird for HIM, not for YOU. Let know how proud you are of him.

Later this will all be corrected and refined ina ff program in an orderly progression.

I am going to get the smart fetch for the FF training but according to alot people that should not start till he is about 8 months old correct me if im wrong please. So at this time my main concern is getting all his commands down to a T. But I still like to take him out to the field for experience and birds its hard to get ahold of birds here so only birds I get are ones I shoot for him.
I kept one of the doves I shot the other night and froze it and after ob I had him on a short lead and just played with him with the bird doing short throw a and just trying to have fun but he still was dropping it short.

CDN_Cocker wrote:

EvanG wrote:

CDN_Cocker wrote:If he goes and picks it up why are you recalling him? Is he buggering off? Try to keep quiet and see what he chooses to do. When you call him maybe he just thinks he needs to get back ASAP so the bird is no longer a priority.

If he does not come as called and deliver to hand he is not retrieving. He is just a 'go getter', and that is not the useful function that brings game to hand.

EvanG

I agree but perhaps he would come back without being recalled. Maybe the 2 things at once are overwhelming him - he's young

I'm with you. If he had been formally trained in his fundamental obedience commands, especially CC to "Here", he would rarely need to be called, but rather would simply come out of solid conditioning.

EvanG

I took him out for a walk yesterday after Doing some Ob Training my buddies were in the back of the farm hunting well they had 5 birds lost in a thick thicket Zink went In and hunted up all 5 lost birds for them he did amazing and he brought them back to me with no problem first bird he brought it out and dropped it so I started walking backwards and clapping my hands while bent over and he picked it back up and brought it to me and I let him hold it for longer period of time till he just dropped it in my hand this seemed to work out because the rest of the birds he came right to me.


When is the proper age to Force Fetch so I no when to purchase the program

zink2013 wrote:I took him out for a walk yesterday after Doing some Ob Training my buddies were in the back of the farm hunting well they had 5 birds lost in a thick thicket Zink went In and hunted up all 5 lost birds for them he did amazing and he brought them back to me with no problem first bird he brought it out and dropped it so I started walking backwards and clapping my hands while bent over and he picked it back up and brought it to me and I let him hold it for longer period of time till he just dropped it in my hand this seemed to work out because the rest of the birds he came right to me.


When is the proper age to Force Fetch so I no when to purchase the program

About 9 months, but unless you are insensitive, I think hiring it done should be considered. It is tough on most owner/trainers. It is only one of two things that I don't do myself.

Neil

Just curious, what is the second thing you hire
A trainer for besides ff

Db

Donnytpburge wrote:Neil

Just curious, what is the second thing you hire
A trainer for besides ff

Db

Sending young dogs North to the prairies for the summer. I have found no subsitute in their development. The rest I can muddle through.

Neil wrote:

zink2013 wrote:I took him out for a walk yesterday after Doing some Ob Training my buddies were in the back of the farm hunting well they had 5 birds lost in a thick thicket Zink went In and hunted up all 5 lost birds for them he did amazing and he brought them back to me with no problem first bird he brought it out and dropped it so I started walking backwards and clapping my hands while bent over and he picked it back up and brought it to me and I let him hold it for longer period of time till he just dropped it in my hand this seemed to work out because the rest of the birds he came right to me.


When is the proper age to Force Fetch so I no when to purchase the program

About 9 months, but unless you are insensitive, I think hiring it done should be considered. It is tough on most owner/trainers. It is only one of two things that I don't do myself.

I have never waited that long with any of my dogs over many yrs. I typically have it done around 6 mos. assuming teeth are in. Take a look at Bill Hillman's dvd where by dogs go through a more gradual process and yes even earlier.
I know you folks are keen to start hunting their dogs at an early age. BEWARE you do not create more problems due to lack of basics and lack of standard. You will pay for this for a long time to come.

A rule of thumb in training is this............For every mistake or wrong doing you will have to do it about 7 times correctly to overcome the previous learned approach. Most people have a real problem correcting learned mistakes.

zink2013 wrote:Anyone have any Ideas why he is doing this ? and what I can do to fix it so he holds it and does not drop it.

Yes- He's doing it because you "commanded" him to And very often, most pups repetitiously hear a HERE or COME command when there's absolutely nothing in it's mouth as Birddog I believe, was eluding to.
If it were me, I'd keep Obedience and retrieving separate venues and then bring them together later , (or soon), when you begin formal training, without high expectations. Keep fostering /conditioning in some good retrieving ethics, with the idea that a retrieve isn't finished untill pup returns to HEEL, SITS, and drops the bird.

birddog1968 wrote:He's defaulting to what he knows he should do in that moment. I'd ease up on the OB work a little and concentrate on having him retrieve. Keep it fun for him. Maybe instead of commanding here just whistle twice to get him coming in. You've got lots of time for OB, work on fostering a good retrieve right now, to hand if possible. praise is your friend at this point.

+1 ^^^
Hey Birddog, new to the forum- enjoyed your post.