Steady

[Swampbilly]

Hey folks!
1st post here.
Read what Gonehuntin' suggested, went out in the yard, "whacked" my dog with the HEELING Stick to re-enforce, and now I have a huge "problem"-

He keeps coming back for more, what should I do?

[gonehuntin']

Hey folks!
1st post here.
Read what Gonehuntin' suggested, went out in the yard, "whacked" my dog with the HEELING Stick to re-enforce, and now I have a huge "problem"-

He keeps coming back for more, what should I do?

Oh-oh swamp. Now you're on the "dog abuser" list too.

There are many good trainers on this forum. It's more slanted toward pointing dogs, but lots of flusher and waterfowl folk here as well. Welcome to the board!!!!!!!!

[Tooling]

Nicking your dog on a low level with an e-collar may inspire cries of brutality and new posts on the subject too so be cautious and choose your words carefully. Comprehension does not run rampant with some.

[Swampbilly]

Oh-oh swamp. Now you're on the "dog abuser" list too.

There are many good trainers on this forum. It's more slanted toward pointing dogs, but lots of flusher and waterfowl folk here as well. Welcome to the board!!!!!!!!

Thanks 'Gone!
Here's to hoping my post didn't come across to others as being a smarty pants, but did feel like it might give some kind of an example of that if you use any adversive properly the dog shouldn't be afraid of it.
Don't believe the dog pictured looks overly "whacked" or beaten.

Have got nothing but respect for fellow Pointin' Doggers', but don't understand why some would folks view a HEELING Stick as a possible "weapon".
Just like any other tool in the tool box- Heeling Stick, Pinch ,Prong, E-collar, Ear Pinch, or even your own voice, you have to have enough pressure to change the dogs' behavior however much that is.
No need to overwhelm the dog with it.

Nicking your dog on a low level with an e-collar may inspire cries of brutality and new posts on the subject too so be cautious and choose your words carefully. Comprehension does not run rampant with some.

Thanks for the heads up

[polmaise]

Hey folks!
1st post here.
went out in the yard, "whacked" my dog with the HEELING Stick to re-enforce, and now I have a huge "problem"-

He keeps coming back for more, what should I do?

Welcome Swampbilly, I would suggest that if the dog keeps coming back for more' then It's not 'STEADY'!
It's a pity you joined in the thread so late,as the original poster has already indicated and thanked for the advice received.
But I'm sure your contribution to other posts will be invaluable.
.......
The moderators on this forum would appear to be very tolerant and that is encouraging on an open forum. I'm sure that they, like so many others see that when a thread digresses to a point of personal direction or a gathering of support for an individual ,rather than a valid point for discussion that would or could continue debate? then it would be time to call it a day and just go train your dog whatever way you choose or are comfortable with.
I usually find that when something is rammed down my throat , I kinda choke !...I like a bit of banter and a sense of humour I've worked with almost all breeds in various disciplines ,much time has also been working with service dogs during my 12 years military service and if I could complement the image displayed I've had them sitting with a stick of semtex and a stick of dynamite! ...But that doesn't mean that they are clever ,or I am a good trainer!.....Y'all go figure yourselves out within the 'cleek'. I've seen it before.
(young Banks) You have a nice day. Apologies for using your thread to 'air' the response ...how did you get on with the 3 card trick clip btw, hope it helped.

[birddogger]

Hey folks!
1st post here.
Read what Gonehuntin' suggested, went out in the yard, "whacked" my dog with the HEELING Stick to re-enforce, and now I have a huge "problem"-

He keeps coming back for more, what should I do?

I love it. Welcome to the board!

[EvanG]

Nicking your dog on a low level with an e-collar may inspire cries of brutality and new posts on the subject too so be cautious and choose your words carefully. Comprehension does not run rampant with some.

Thanks for the heads up

"CLICK"

EvanG

[Tooling]

Nicking your dog on a low level with an e-collar may inspire cries of brutality and new posts on the subject too so be cautious and choose your words carefully. Comprehension does not run rampant with some.

Thanks for the heads up

"CLICK"

EvanG

Hey wait a minute..thought you didn't believe in clicker training..lol

[Double Shot Banks]

Just curious as to where the discussion has gone?
i must have missed something

[gonehuntin']

Basically, you had a poster touting information that was not true. If you go on any retriever forum, read any of the books I named, watch any of the DVD's I mentioned, you will see how a heeling stick is used with retrievers.

Now you have some trainers posting that understand the stick and it's uses.

All trainers employ different methods, it's just that most don't put their foot in their mouth and say the other is wrong. The things I told you are methods employed by virtually every retriever trainer today, and that is very easy for you to verify.

You can only train using one program Banks; decide which one you want and stick to it. Evan,s is a very good program.

[Swampbilly]

Early duck is this weekend
Thinking i will hold him steady when the ducks come in, and my dad will shoot them, i will send him. To get a good picture in his head about hunting.
Isaac and Banks

That's probably a good bet considering the time you've got between now and this weekend- particularly if you know that it's probable that your dog may not be steady or break from SIT once those hen Woodducks begin getting vocal in the a.m., or you blow a duckcall, or he sees birds approaching, or even gunfire.

But make no mistake- as mentioned previously: Time restraints should not be a deciding factor as to whether or not to begin proofing or re-enforcing, it's never "too late" to start.

Good too, to establish an "agreement" between you and dog that unless he's steady and quiet he gets absolutely nuthin'. You can begin establishing that in the training field by denying the dog a retrieve when he's not steady or gets vocal on the line.
That, combined with proper re-enforcement and corrections, (yes, that can include a HEELING Stick) can help establish the steadiness that you'd want in a Gundog.

Set your dog up in the training field in low cover with a clipped winged pigeon tossed on the ground in front of him from a distance. He doesn't get it untill he's steady. Make proper corrections.
Shot flyers work wonders too!
Lastly-
Nothing beats a good day training with other dogs who are retrieving while your dog is honoring. There's been some good lessons learned like that!

[EvanG]

Abuse? :roll:

EvanG

[polmaise]

Early duck is this weekend
We have a location to hunt with lots of woodies and teal.
Banks is steady when i throw bumpers, but he is a young dog and is really wiggle and excited (doesnt want to sit still obviously)
Is there anything i can do to train for this to help keep him steady other than just throwing bumpers (he is used to this)
Thinking i will hold him steady when the ducks come in, and my dad will shoot them, i will send him. To get a good picture in his head about hunting.
Thanks,
Isaac and Banks

There was a topic on RTF Isaac discussing similar ,and in a more understanding manner , this may help
http://www.northernflight.com/forceorcorrection.htm

[Swampbilly]

Polmaise -
Enjoyed that read!
I'd respectfully like to add something to it's context

"Breaking or creeping is a common behavior exhibited by excitable, high-drive dogs. The key word here is excitable. The goal is not to stop the dog from breaking, but to recondition the dog to embed a behavior to be sitting in the heel position," said Pete. "It's not don't break the sit, but the mind-set must be changed to I must be next to my handler's side, Steady and Quiet, in order to be released to make the retrieve.

[krakadawn]

This poster, me, gave great, current and valid advice. I would suggest Neil spend time with a retriever trainer and maybe read some of the books on retriever training line the ones by Quinn, Morgan, Wolters (D.L.), or Shoemaker then come back and dine on his words.[/quote]

I totally agree with the above statement. Rarely do I get embroiled in such discussions as the context is so varied between retrievers and pointing dogs however, we have some folks here who are limited in their scope, understanding and application of learning theory/practise when it comes to this topic.
We have some that know
We have some that don't know
Worse... we have some that don't know that they don't know!

To the original poster, you might steady a dog to hand thrown bumpers. Will he remain steady when the guns goes off? How about a loud gun? How about adding a bird in the equation? How about a quacking live bird? How about when another dog is in the hide? How about when a bird has to be sluiced to finish it off? How about when people are moving? These are the other factors to consider and be taught. They don't happen by chance.
If you are a true student of the game then you will expose/teach these situations whether you're running a field trial or hunting behind your house. You will develop a standard with these skills bringing a level of dependability to your dog. If you don't you will live with the consequences....breaking dog, unsafe shooting over dog, lost birds, interfering with others, poor quality to hunt etc.................

We have a number of good programs for people to reference regarding the teaching sequentially of retriever skills. I know Lardy, I prefer his material, folks would be well advised to visit his program/process and become informed. Once you do that you can see how easily the OP's question can be addressed and one can start to plan some effective training.

By the way, the whacking stuff is just silly. We all use heeling sticks to support high level line manners and focus on line. At no times is the use inhumane,

Regards,