Dog is gun shy, very badly
-
snobo4rder08
- Rank: Just A Pup
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:23 pm
Dog is gun shy, very badly
I bought my puppy two years ago it is a chocolate lab and after six months of having it I scared it with gunshot out of a pistol I was stupid at the time and did not understand how to introduce a dog properly to gunfire now even if I take a gun out of it's case.my puppy will go hide under a chair. So would it help if I would get a Nother puppy and teach it the correct way and hopefully that would teach my dog that I have now the correct way. I am looking at another lab or a German shorthair pointer
-
RoostersMom
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 1754
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:42 pm
- Location: North Central Missouri
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
Nope - that won't help. Seeing another dog handle the gun well won't affect your current problem dog. If you want the dog to hunt with, you'll need to re-condition it to gunfire. If you don't care, then don't worry about it. Re-conditioning the dog will take real commitment, it's a hard and long process. If you want to have a hunter out of this dog, your very best bet is to take him to a professional that deals with gunshy dogs. There are many good ones out there. We had a gunshy chessie that we got from the animal shelter - he's now a bird retrieving fool and he doesn't mind the gun.
What are your long-term goals with this dog?
What are your long-term goals with this dog?
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
X2.........................
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
-
gonehuntin'
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 4868
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
- Location: NE WI.
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
This is a post I made on another forum. Some of the things in it don't apply to you, but I didn't feel like re-typing the entire post. Hope it helps
CURING GUN SHYNESS
A dog is very much like a person. Your fear of one thing can be so great, it outweighs
your desire to do another thing.
In this instance, your dog would love to retrieve, but something about that loud noise
(gunshot) has him so concerned, that the retrieve becomes secondary to his fear of the
noise.
So how do we counter this? There are two ways really, one using birds and the other to
just subject him to the loud noise in a pleasant surrounding over, and over, and over, and
over until he learns not to fear the noise.
I'll try and explain it so you understand.
Your dog is a BIRD DOG. He was bred, born, made, to hunt and retrieve birds. That IS
his life. It isn't being petted, watching TV, or eating. It is getting a bird in his mouth and
retrieving that bird. That desire overcomes every other desire the dog has, the desire to
eat, the desire to breathe, nearly the desire for life. It is the most powerful driving force
the dog possesses. Don't believe that? When the dog is eating, yell mark and throw a bird.
I guarantee he'll bolt from the food dish and grab the bumper. Same if he's on a female
breeding her and you throw a bird. I guarantee if he hasn't locked up yet, he'll jump off,
get that bird and return to his other favorite past time.
So what does this mean to us? It mean that we channel his most powerful drive and use it
to cure his greatest fear. By first throwing clip wings with no shot and letting that drive
surface and grow, and letting the dog have fun, we enhance the drive God has given him
then cure him of the gunshyness by using it. It is the fastest method I know of to cure a
dog of gunshyness yet build that incredible desire. If you get impatient and rush it, it
won't work. Here are the steps in order. There is no time sequence. You proceed only to
the next step when the dog is completing the step he's on at 100%. If you proceed too fast,
you can lose all of the steps and have to start all over.
1). Get the dog birdy. With no gun involved, have a helper throw a clip wing pigeon and
let the dog retrieve it. Start short at 50 yards and work out to 100 yards. Never throw the
birds so many times the dog wants to quit. About 10 times a session is fine. If you don't
have a helper, throw them yourself.
2). Good. He's birdy now. You have to restrain him and when you let him go, he goes flat
out for each pigeon, grabs it and comes back. He is insane to get the birds. Now we add a
gun and a helper. Have a helper stand 100 yards out in a BARE field with a riffle and .22
blanks. Start with a .22 crimp then go to the regular .22 blank. Have the helper throw the
bird in the air without firing and send the dog. Have the helper yell MARK before
throwing the bird to get the dog's attention. After the dog makes a couple of retrieves,
have the helper yell MARK, fire the riffle in the air with the muzzle pointed away from
the dog and send the dog while the bird is still in the air. You use a riffle because the
report is softer than with a pistol. A pistol directs the sound out each side and they're so
loud they even hurt your ears. Use a riffle. Did the dog do it OK? Did he show any
hesitation? If all went well, throw another six birds, firing a shot when the bird is in the
air and sending the dog.
3).Step three is exactly the same as step two, but shorten the helper to 90 yards. Each time
you progress to the next step, shorten it up by 10 yards. If the dog shows any hesitation,
back up 10 yards.
4). Now 80 yards.
5). Now 70 yards.
6) Now 60 yards.
7) Now 50 yards.
. Now 40 yards.
9) Now 30 yards.
10) Now 20 yards.
11) Now, for step 11, get rid of the helper. Now you take the clip wing, throw it, and
when the dog is in full pursuit, fire the gun with the muzzle directed away from the dog..
He should completely ignore the shot and dive for the bird.
12)Now repeat step 11 EXCEPT don't shoot the gun when the bird is in the air. Wait until
the dog pounces for the bird, his full attention on the bird, and fire the gun. Timing is
crucial and is everything here.
13). The final step with the .22 is to sit the dog, throw the bird with the dog sitting at your
side, and shoot the gun when the bird is in the air and send the dog. Did everything go
OK? Then we're now ready to introduce the shotgun.
To introduce the shotgun back right up to step 1 and do the whole 13 steps over again.
Sound boring and that it will take you a long time? It is and it does. That's why you pay a
pro so much to cure a gun shy dog. If the dog is not a bird-a-holic, you won't cure him by
this method. If he isn't a bird-a-holic, dump him because that isn't the dog you want
anyhow.
With a new pup, you don't have to be this careful, this is how a gun shy dog is broken. If
you get a new pup you break him to the gun differently, but that's for another thread.
Patience. If you have no patience and
aren't willing to follow a plan, you'll never train a dog. Patience, common sense, a
progressive program, understanding, discipline, a good dog. That's dog training.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2923
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NE WI.
Top
Re: Do we have any hope?
by Samm87 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:09 pm
CURING GUN SHYNESS
A dog is very much like a person. Your fear of one thing can be so great, it outweighs
your desire to do another thing.
In this instance, your dog would love to retrieve, but something about that loud noise
(gunshot) has him so concerned, that the retrieve becomes secondary to his fear of the
noise.
So how do we counter this? There are two ways really, one using birds and the other to
just subject him to the loud noise in a pleasant surrounding over, and over, and over, and
over until he learns not to fear the noise.
I'll try and explain it so you understand.
Your dog is a BIRD DOG. He was bred, born, made, to hunt and retrieve birds. That IS
his life. It isn't being petted, watching TV, or eating. It is getting a bird in his mouth and
retrieving that bird. That desire overcomes every other desire the dog has, the desire to
eat, the desire to breathe, nearly the desire for life. It is the most powerful driving force
the dog possesses. Don't believe that? When the dog is eating, yell mark and throw a bird.
I guarantee he'll bolt from the food dish and grab the bumper. Same if he's on a female
breeding her and you throw a bird. I guarantee if he hasn't locked up yet, he'll jump off,
get that bird and return to his other favorite past time.
So what does this mean to us? It mean that we channel his most powerful drive and use it
to cure his greatest fear. By first throwing clip wings with no shot and letting that drive
surface and grow, and letting the dog have fun, we enhance the drive God has given him
then cure him of the gunshyness by using it. It is the fastest method I know of to cure a
dog of gunshyness yet build that incredible desire. If you get impatient and rush it, it
won't work. Here are the steps in order. There is no time sequence. You proceed only to
the next step when the dog is completing the step he's on at 100%. If you proceed too fast,
you can lose all of the steps and have to start all over.
1). Get the dog birdy. With no gun involved, have a helper throw a clip wing pigeon and
let the dog retrieve it. Start short at 50 yards and work out to 100 yards. Never throw the
birds so many times the dog wants to quit. About 10 times a session is fine. If you don't
have a helper, throw them yourself.
2). Good. He's birdy now. You have to restrain him and when you let him go, he goes flat
out for each pigeon, grabs it and comes back. He is insane to get the birds. Now we add a
gun and a helper. Have a helper stand 100 yards out in a BARE field with a riffle and .22
blanks. Start with a .22 crimp then go to the regular .22 blank. Have the helper throw the
bird in the air without firing and send the dog. Have the helper yell MARK before
throwing the bird to get the dog's attention. After the dog makes a couple of retrieves,
have the helper yell MARK, fire the riffle in the air with the muzzle pointed away from
the dog and send the dog while the bird is still in the air. You use a riffle because the
report is softer than with a pistol. A pistol directs the sound out each side and they're so
loud they even hurt your ears. Use a riffle. Did the dog do it OK? Did he show any
hesitation? If all went well, throw another six birds, firing a shot when the bird is in the
air and sending the dog.
3).Step three is exactly the same as step two, but shorten the helper to 90 yards. Each time
you progress to the next step, shorten it up by 10 yards. If the dog shows any hesitation,
back up 10 yards.
4). Now 80 yards.
5). Now 70 yards.
6) Now 60 yards.
7) Now 50 yards.
. Now 40 yards.
9) Now 30 yards.
10) Now 20 yards.
11) Now, for step 11, get rid of the helper. Now you take the clip wing, throw it, and
when the dog is in full pursuit, fire the gun with the muzzle directed away from the dog..
He should completely ignore the shot and dive for the bird.
12)Now repeat step 11 EXCEPT don't shoot the gun when the bird is in the air. Wait until
the dog pounces for the bird, his full attention on the bird, and fire the gun. Timing is
crucial and is everything here.
13). The final step with the .22 is to sit the dog, throw the bird with the dog sitting at your
side, and shoot the gun when the bird is in the air and send the dog. Did everything go
OK? Then we're now ready to introduce the shotgun.
To introduce the shotgun back right up to step 1 and do the whole 13 steps over again.
Sound boring and that it will take you a long time? It is and it does. That's why you pay a
pro so much to cure a gun shy dog. If the dog is not a bird-a-holic, you won't cure him by
this method. If he isn't a bird-a-holic, dump him because that isn't the dog you want
anyhow.
With a new pup, you don't have to be this careful, this is how a gun shy dog is broken. If
you get a new pup you break him to the gun differently, but that's for another thread.
Patience. If you have no patience and
aren't willing to follow a plan, you'll never train a dog. Patience, common sense, a
progressive program, understanding, discipline, a good dog. That's dog training.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2923
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NE WI.
Top
Re: Do we have any hope?
by Samm87 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:09 pm
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
Gonehuntin, great post.
I would also start putting a gun down beside his food bowl. If he wont eat take the food up and repeat the next day, keep food from him until he ignores the sight of the gun. After a few days of him eating with the gun nearby, pick the gun up and handle the gun around him as he eats. If he shys away take his feed up. repeat. When he is ok with you handling the gun work the action. The introduction of the gun around food prevents a set back when you get ready to introduce the gun associated with birds.
I would also start putting a gun down beside his food bowl. If he wont eat take the food up and repeat the next day, keep food from him until he ignores the sight of the gun. After a few days of him eating with the gun nearby, pick the gun up and handle the gun around him as he eats. If he shys away take his feed up. repeat. When he is ok with you handling the gun work the action. The introduction of the gun around food prevents a set back when you get ready to introduce the gun associated with birds.
Last edited by birdshot on Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
gonehuntin'
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 4868
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
- Location: NE WI.
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
Yes, that is excellent advice. That makes the gun a pleasant experience.birdshot wrote:GDF, great post.
I would also start putting a gun down beside his food bowl. If he wont eat take the food up and repeat the next day, keep food from him until he ignores the sight of the gun. After a few days of him eating with the gun nearby, pick the gun up and handle the gun around him as he eats. If he shys away take his feed up. repeat. When he is ok with you handling the gun work the action. The introduction of the gun around food prevents a set back when you get ready to introduce the gun associated with birds.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
Take the dog to a pro that specializes in curing gun shy. You are just going to make it worse.
-
Georgia Boy
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 753
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:50 pm
- Location: Georgia
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
Some people may disagree with this but I honestly believe there is a genetic component to being gun shy. I will also say there could be environmental factors that may contribute as well and I do a proper introduction to gunfire with all pups at my kennel.
Home of the truly versatile hunting companion www.vommountaincreek.com
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
I agree, and too often if cured, it manifests in other aberrant behavior, it is symptom.Georgia Boy wrote:Some people may disagree with this but I honestly believe there is a genetic component to being gun shy. I will also say there could be environmental factors that may contribute as well and I do a proper introduction to gunfire with all pups at my kennel.
That is why I think he needs a pro. He admits to screwing up the first time, it is likely he will again.
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
Where are you located?
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
If not genetic, then at least influenced by association with the bitch during litter-rearing.Georgia Boy wrote:Some people may disagree with this but I honestly believe there is a genetic component to being gun shy. I will also say there could be environmental factors that may contribute as well and I do a proper introduction to gunfire with all pups at my kennel
-
QuailHollow
- Rank: Senior Hunter
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:21 am
- Location: South Central Penn.
Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly
Ok, been in this situation before.. I haven't 'cured' it, but I'm at least back where we started. First, I was given a dog as a birdy yearling. I had tested the dog in the yard with the natural progression to birds and a blank pistol. Since he appeared to be associating everything, and was happy to give chase and ignore the 'POP', we took him hunting with our seasoned dog when Pheasant season opened. He was running the field like crazy, but not hunting as ... he had no clue what he was there for. Ok, no problem, that's typical. So my seasoned dog points, and a shot is fired. My dog didn't see the bird and he's rattled by it. So my seasoned dog points another bird. My husband says to get my dog over there - the bird flushes, both dogs take chase, and the shot is fired. Big mistake. The gun fire turned him right square around and he never left my side after that.. A shot gun, in his mind, was much scarier than the blank pistol.. and the fact that it was being fired multiple times did him in. He was jumping on me, and walking in my path the rest of the afternoon. I kept him out, thinking that he needed to work through it. It didn't help. Additionally, it didn't help that my neighbor likes to shoot crows and groundhogs from his back porch... which is just across our field.
I started really thinking about *what* to do with him. I didn't know if it could be fixed, or, if I had ruined him. I know how much he loves the ATV. It's always a race he has to win with the other dogs when I get it out. So, I loaded my blank pistol pulled out the ATV and waited for the dogs to get SCREAMING/BARKING EXCITED. I opened the kennel door for everyone to bust out and start back to hunting camp - and as they did I fired the blank pistol. No reaction. - -- and NO BAD ASSOCIATION TO BIRDS (mind you - no good association either - but I was trying to separate the two ideas at this point). I continued to do this for 3 weeks. When I felt comfortable that I was getting no reaction from him, I took the blank pistol into the woods. I fired it, once, while he was on his way back to camp up ahead. Remember, my dog runs TO me to crawl up my back .. so I wasn't afraid of him running further away. No reaction. I repeated this process until I was wasting so many blanks that my husband actually pointed out the fact that the pack was empty.
In the meantime, I was also working him with pigeons and quail WITHOUT the blank pistol. He was a bit *off* with the birds after the whole thing, so I allowed him to bump and chase and.. yes, .. he even caught a few. Once I determined he was nice and birdy, and the blank gun was no longer terrifying, I pulled the two components back together and it has been that way ever since. I just finished his Junior Hunter title this weekend. I stake him out at any hunt test or field trial I go to. As the association begins to be rebuild, he is 'marking' for birds when he hears gun fire. At this point, we will need to reintroduce him to the shot gun and see if my process was a success. Only time will tell... I feel I will *know* when he's ready for that next step. We are almost there.
Good luck to you. This is just my experience with one dog. I hope it helps.
I started really thinking about *what* to do with him. I didn't know if it could be fixed, or, if I had ruined him. I know how much he loves the ATV. It's always a race he has to win with the other dogs when I get it out. So, I loaded my blank pistol pulled out the ATV and waited for the dogs to get SCREAMING/BARKING EXCITED. I opened the kennel door for everyone to bust out and start back to hunting camp - and as they did I fired the blank pistol. No reaction. - -- and NO BAD ASSOCIATION TO BIRDS (mind you - no good association either - but I was trying to separate the two ideas at this point). I continued to do this for 3 weeks. When I felt comfortable that I was getting no reaction from him, I took the blank pistol into the woods. I fired it, once, while he was on his way back to camp up ahead. Remember, my dog runs TO me to crawl up my back .. so I wasn't afraid of him running further away. No reaction. I repeated this process until I was wasting so many blanks that my husband actually pointed out the fact that the pack was empty.
In the meantime, I was also working him with pigeons and quail WITHOUT the blank pistol. He was a bit *off* with the birds after the whole thing, so I allowed him to bump and chase and.. yes, .. he even caught a few. Once I determined he was nice and birdy, and the blank gun was no longer terrifying, I pulled the two components back together and it has been that way ever since. I just finished his Junior Hunter title this weekend. I stake him out at any hunt test or field trial I go to. As the association begins to be rebuild, he is 'marking' for birds when he hears gun fire. At this point, we will need to reintroduce him to the shot gun and see if my process was a success. Only time will tell... I feel I will *know* when he's ready for that next step. We are almost there.
Good luck to you. This is just my experience with one dog. I hope it helps.