Keeping a big-running dog handler-centered

Nutmeg247 · Post by **Nutmeg247** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:40 am

A comment in another thread, "That'd make an interesting discussion on its own......pushing a dog to run early on vs having them understand feathers come in conjunction with the handler then pushing them to run" had me thinking. I am an inexperienced trainer who is exclusively a foothunter, with a dog who left to his own devices will range a half-mile to a mile, particularly in the open, and seems happy to not check back in until he's thirsty. In denser cover he does pull in, and also moves more slowly after an initial burn-off of energy. I've never really had to encourage him to run, but haven't really focused on keeping him in, except that I do try hard to keep him in e-collar range. For training, obviously he needs to be near me at some points. Otherwise, is range an issue beyond grey hairs when you lose track of the dog? Also, since he doesn't seem too focused on me out there, should I do more to work on him being handler-centric?

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:18 am

I have dealt with this before. Last week was the most recent. Luckily he was a very tough dog. Make sure he knows his commands and you are producing birds. Crank up the juice and put him away immediately. Repeat the next day. If the dog doesn't behave he doesent get to run again that day. Always start the morning training off with a bird opportunity after that it's up to the dog if he wants more birds or to be corrected and put up again.
A runoff or what some call a great forward race does a foot hunter no good IMO

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:43 am

I have had pointers for the last thirty years or so. Virtually all of the dogs that I have had and have now are directly out of horse back all age breeding. I am a foot hunter and occasional small time foot trialer. Early on I used the ecollar to teach the dogs to handle. When a dog started to get out of pocket I would call to him and if he didn't respond I would use the ecollar. This worked but I think I have found a better way. When I start running a puppy I carry a sack of pigeons with me. I will periodically call to the dog, get his attention and then toss a pigeon. It doesn't take long and the dog wants to keep track of me and respond when I call because he is convinced that I crap pigeons. This seems to work much better for me because the dog is handling and checking in because he wants to, not because he is being forced to. Later, when the dog is older and broke I will occasionally drop a wing locked pigeon or a pen raised quail in to a patch of cover near me and then call to the dog, so he has a find when he comes to me. I may do this one time every five or ten times that I run them.

I also do not believe that a forward race equals a run off. The more that I mess with bird dogs the more I appreciate a dog that is always forward. My pet peeve is to have a dog behind me when I am hunting.

cmc274 · Post by **cmc274** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:46 am

A dog learns to go with you and pay attention to you on the end of a rope. Then start dropping the rope and then start letting them loose, keep them close and make them handle.

What rimker mentions about flocking dogs is tried and true for a lot of folks.

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:39 am

gotpointers wrote:I have dealt with this before. Last week was the most recent. Luckily he was a very tough dog. Make sure he knows his commands and you are producing birds. Crank up the juice and put him away immediately. Repeat the next day. If the dog doesn't behave he doesent get to run again that day. Always start the morning training off with a bird opportunity after that it's up to the dog if he wants more birds or to be corrected and put up again.
A runoff or what some call a great forward race does a foot hunter no good IMO

Hey, I saw you sneak that in there. I don't care how far my setters " run off"

as long as they hold that point until I get there.... and doesn't work behind me.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:29 pm

Sharon I agree 100% on the dog not working behind. But I'm a fan of getting that bird 150 yards slightly forward and to my left before working the 500 yard ahead bird. Also the Wild Western quail are pretty good runners and become flighty also if I'm not able to reach them quick even if my dog is steady 20 yards off. I'm also poking some fun at the judges who claim "the dog had a great forward race but had a little too much hunt."

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:57 pm

If the dog is 500 yards ahead then I assume there weren't any birds between me and 500 yards away.

No experience on wild western quail unfortunately. Our birds hunker down until ............A covey here is 2 birds. :roll:

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:29 pm

I like to have them as puppies think birds fly from my derriere

I don't do initial training with check cords only dropping pigeons. It seems to put in their mind that once in awhile I know something they don't and birds are found at times with me not inspite of me. Once i have a pup truly honest on his birds , I quickly try to get them to make the association that the way they get feathers is to work for me, honestly.

Done early on , I believe, it makes a dog (who has the mental capacity to range wide) keep you in its mind and want to keep track of you. Seeing that fireball pup consistently stop far off, out front, to see where you are and take a direction is what really trips my trigger.

Rinker and I seem to be along the same lines in thinking.....

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