The Spaniel Spot

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:07 pm

Hal your last video with the marks with bumper in mouth intrigued me so I gave it a whirl in the back yard today with Jake. It was great, fun way to work on his memory. Have a very happy (and very muddy) pup now LOL.

UplandJim · Post by **UplandJim** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:19 pm

crackerd wrote:
You mean Montlerville, PA, right?

UplandJim wrote: It's in Tyrone, PA dude.

crackerd wrote: When you don't know what you don't know (and what you're "hoping to see"), you oughtn't "dude" somebody who might know what you don't...

MG

just got [mahsc] 2014 ESS Field Trial Results in my inbox this afternoon. The last name of the 4th placement owner handler rang a bell. Well played crackerd.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:21 am

My comment above was on place instead of placements (or placeboards), Jim - most generous hosts of any gundog event I've run over 20-odd years, at one of the best and truly gorgeous places for it, too. Go see 'em (and their place) any chance or invitation you get.

MG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:53 am

UplandJim wrote:
crackerd wrote:

just got [mahsc] 2014 ESS Field Trial Results in my inbox this afternoon. The last name of the 4th placement owner handler rang a bell. Well played crackerd.

Kathy Nestor from Michigan, an occasional training partner, judged the event for the Mid -Atlantic club trial

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:06 am

GRCH Harry and owner/handler Roxanne Fegley
In the Ring or field Harry can get the job done!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERjpZRGDXu4

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:54 am

Snow is almost all gone finally. Back to training!

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:41 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:Snow is almost all gone finally. Back to training!

What, he's now in training as an artist's model?

Gundogguy, nifty article in the current Purina Pro Club/Today's Breeder magazine about the recent cocker champs. in Bismarck. Lot of familiar names and photos making for compelling camaraderie, with proper due and adieu to Harold Bixby and his now-posthumous award. Wish I could link to it, but apparently not yet online.

MG

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:47 am

Hey Cass,
I wasn't sure if that was a placeboard or if you stole the drum riser from a KISS concert.

Mike

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:22 pm

LOL that was his original place board. I have a couple others that are only on 2x4s (on their side) but I still use the higher one a lot. For my benefit, not his. It saves my back lol

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:06 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:LOL that was his original place board. I have a couple others that are only on 2x4s (on their side) but I still use the higher one a lot. For my benefit, not his. It saves my back lol

This one is hard to move around.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:29 am

MJB64 wrote:This one is hard to move around.

That's brilliant, MJB, as in An Englishman's (or fbcocker's) home is his castle sort of thing.

They all have their particular perch as dictated by pedigree.The Boykin being from the South for example

usually only gets down off her throne to run out and retrieve a bird,

rather than flushing it first.

MG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:44 pm

crackerd wrote: They all have their particular perch as dictated by pedigree.
rather than flushing it first.
MG

The Springer sits on a higher place

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:47 pm

Nice photos guys

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:21 pm

polmaise wrote:The Springer sits on a higher place

Dunno know 'bout that, Robt. - maybe not even first among equals...

MG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:35 pm

How did I just 'know' that that pic was coming

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:07 am

It's so hard to humble around such photos of dogs and the things they can perch on.
When mine just enjoys a glass or two toasting her sire's NFC win! 2012

UplandJim · Post by **UplandJim** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:23 pm

gundogguy wrote:It's so hard to humble around such photos of dogs and the things they can perch on.
When mine just enjoys a glass or two toasting her sire's NFC win! 2012

Did not realize you had a Clifford pup. Good Luck with her!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:13 am

gundogguy wrote:It's so hard to humble around such photos of dogs and the things they can perch on.
When mine just enjoys a glass or two toasting her sire's NFC win! 2012

That's my kind of dog!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:47 am

UplandJim wrote:
gundogguy wrote:It's so hard to humble around such photos of dogs and the things they can perch on.
When mine just enjoys a glass or two toasting her sire's NFC win! 2012
Did not realize you had a Clifford pup. Good Luck with her!

Clifford "The Big red Dog" X Buccleugh Thistle. she will be turn Two in July. she is a hoot!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:52 am

Gundogguy, nifty article in the current Purina Pro Club/Today's Breeder magazine about the recent cocker champs. in Bismarck. Lot of familiar names and photos making for compelling camaraderie, with proper due and adieu to Harold Bixby and his now-posthumous award. Wish I could link to it, but apparently not yet online.

MG[/quote]

Crackerd, Harold was a Prince of man he trial dogs often in Michigan. had the pleasure of gunning for him on many occasions. The tribute speaks loudly of the love the Cocker community had the Man and his dogs

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:30 am

Been doing a bit of shed training with Jake. He hasn't got his first real find yet, but he's getting good at finding this old shed.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon May 05, 2014 5:46 pm

Nice pic Cass Just wait till the day he finds an old carcass and curls up inside the rib cage. Always makes for an interesting ride home.
Quiet training week for Zeta, she is in season, giving here some rest before start the training regime till autumn.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon May 26, 2014 3:54 am

Just in case any one out there is thinking about complaining about the heat and summer conditions, here is a vid from 1/1/14
3f degrees above zero, wind chill about -22f

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXb3Q4Byzmc

already putting the fire wood up for the next season which is only 4 months away!

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Mon May 26, 2014 9:55 am

What heat and summer conditions ? I don't think the temperature has gone much above 15 c. here so far.... not while I've been looking anyway !

Bill T.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue May 27, 2014 3:40 am

Trekmoor wrote:What heat and summer conditions ? I don't think the temperature has gone much above 15 c. (45 F) here so far.... not while I've been looking anyway !

Bill T.

Very sorry have not been keeping up with Scottish weather conditions. Here in the middle of the USA it has been closer 28c-32C of late. I only posted because I had heard folks complaining already about the heat. Considering that we had just gone through the toughest winter her in the states in the 60 years.
I have had friends just return from holiday in Europe and the complained also about cool conditions.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Tue May 27, 2014 4:57 am

I continually forget or fail to grasp the huge area America is . It surprises me that areas of America so far apart can all seem to have hot weather at the same time. I think the weather conditions vary much more widely in Britain over a far smaller area . Maybe the sea all around us has a lot to with it plus the hill ranges are not as far apart here. .... If you don't like the weather in Britain, just wait a moment and it will change for you !

Bill T.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat May 31, 2014 2:11 pm

Trekmoor wrote:I continually forget or fail to grasp the huge area America is . It surprises me that areas of America so far apart can all seem to have hot weather at the same time. I think the weather conditions vary much more widely in Britain over a far smaller area . Maybe the sea all around us has a lot to with it plus the hill ranges are not as far apart here. .... If you don't like the weather in Britain, just wait a moment and it will change for you !

Bill T.

USA is big I think we could fit 3 maybe 4 UK's within our borders. and that not figuring in Alaska and Hawaii. Huge variance in Dailey temps and precipitation and wind velocity and dirctions. By the hot( 84F) and dry here in the Midwest, rain , hopefully by Sunday night>

SpringerDude · Post by **SpringerDude** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:19 pm

Been a while since I visited this forum. Here is an update that some of you have heard already.
My pup, Josie, completed her Master Hunter title on May 18, 2014 at the AKC Spaniel Hunt Test hosted by the English Springer Spaniel Club of Eastern Nebraska.
In October 2013, at 17 mths, Josie passed her 1st Master Test and then in her second test broke on the shot and DQ'd. Her next attempt was in Wisconsin a couple weeks later and she got her 2nd Master Pass.
Then we ran a couple of Field Trials, hunted woodcock, picked up birds are Euro Shoots, etc. Then at the end of April 2014, Josie went 2 for 2 at the Missouri Hunting Spaniel Club's hunt tests. A few weeks later, we went to the hunt tests in Nebraska completing her title going 4 for 4 this Spring. She has really been a nice dog to train and fun to hunt and run in tests. A dream at Euro hunts just doing retrieving work.

Just thought I would share my excitement.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat May 31, 2014 5:55 pm

Congratulations! That's a special dog.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat May 31, 2014 6:46 pm

Way to go SD!!!! That's awesome!

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:23 am

Well done with your dog Springer Dude. Would you tell me please what a "Euro Shoot" is ? Is it what we call "Driven Shooting ?"

Bill T.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:52 am

You got it Bill, it is pass shooting pheasants. Well some them pass. short clip early autumn "Euro" shoot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_07QOygsA

SpringerDude · Post by **SpringerDude** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:32 pm

Bill,

You can check out this website. it has a video as well. This is one place I go to work my dogs picking up pheasants.
http://showmebirds.com/hunts/european-hunts/

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:24 am

Zeta the War princess having a go at some brace work. Gets an honor and then a retrieve.
As always view video on expanded or full screen!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:12 am

I think you forgot the link Hal

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:25 am

I enjoyed the videos , some of that looked like good fun. I have a few questions concerning the dog work . It is too easy to get a misinformed opinion when watching videos of what actually happens but do the dogs used for picking up during the driven pheasant shoots always sit so close to the guns ? I ask this because it would be a very rare thing for me or any other picker up to be so close to the shooting while picking up.

At the estates I pick up for I would probably get sacked from the job if I was that close to the guns as they were shooting. We (the pickers up) usually do not send dogs in front of the guns until the drives have ended. We also often leave the birds that fall within maybe 30 or so yards from the guns but behind them until the drive has ended. That does vary a bit from estate to estate.

Two of the shoots I pick up for operate a two tier system of pickers up. One tier maybe 40 yards or more back from the guns where most of the birds will fall and the second tier .....the one I am usually in, anything up to 150 yards back from the guns. My job as a "back marker" is to find the birds, often runners, that fall or glide in a long way back from the guns. When the drive has ended my dogs have usually already found the birds back there so I begin to hunt my dogs forward towards the guns in order to find any remaining birds between myself and the front tier of pickers up. We call this "sweeping."

I would be concerned that with so many birds being fired at in the film , especially at long range, a high proportion of those birds could be runners and the dogs are not in the best position to quickly collect those runners. Are some of the handlers and dogs working as "back-markers ?"

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:24 am

Horses for courses Hal, and yes you guys can have a lot of fun with good dogs at these 'Euro' type shoots

As you know over here we have several scenarios which fall in the category of 'Driven shoots' such as Grouse where we can have dogs in the ''Butts'' (Blind) and they are right next to the guns and used for picking up (retrieving) and with traditional driven pheasant and Partridge we also have ''Peg dogs'' which are by the guns side and used for picking up (retrieving).
Like has been mentioned , but just for clarity for some who may not have had the pleasure of seeing well trained dogs being steady under the barrage of multiple shots and multiple birds being shot with the dogs at the side of the gun,there are a few (good ones

) that also send their dogs during this action on injured game (cripples) whilst there are dead/shot game en route (poison)

and the shooter continues to shoot these driven birds over head .Spaniels and retrievers mostly but I've seen just one or two other breeds perform the task admirably.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:45 pm

gundogguy wrote:Zeta the War princess having a go at some brace work. Gets an honor and then a retrieve.
As always view video on expanded or full screen!

Thanks Cass I have to be retrained every so often, I know the Vet was headed for the stable 1st thing this morning.. here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4OeNqB6_04

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:58 pm

polmaise wrote:Horses for courses Hal, and yes you guys can have a lot of fun with good dogs at these 'Euro' type shoots
As you know over here we have several scenarios which fall in the category of 'Driven shoots' such as Grouse where we can have dogs in the ''Butts'' (Blind) and they are right next to the guns and used for picking up (retrieving) and with traditional driven pheasant and Partridge we also have ''Peg dogs'' which are by the guns side and used for picking up (retrieving).
Like has been mentioned , but just for clarity for some who may not have had the pleasure of seeing well trained dogs being steady under the barrage of multiple shots and multiple birds being shot with the dogs at the side of the gun,there are a few (good ones ) that also send their dogs during this action on injured game (cripples) whilst there are dead/shot game en route (poison) and the shooter continues to shoot these driven birds over head .Spaniels and retrievers mostly but I've seen just one or two other breeds perform the task admirably.

Courses of Horses is the best way to approach this Trekmore and Polmaise, the system used here in the US is designed to do one thing sell a large number of birds quickly,
sport and tradition have very little to do with it. Though in most cases the bag rarely exceeded 50% so one might contend there was and element of sport involved As for the dog work after being "Captain of the Shoot" for some twenty years Booking and presiding over some 300 of these group shoots, I tended to only send my dogs on deads and cripples that fell some distance from the back line at least allowing a reasonable mark or handle on blinds. One the selling points of these shoots here in my part of the country was a walk-up or rough shoot on the birds that flown thru the barrage, picking many cripples and dead's was a way to make the guns feel a little better about their shooting in the morning.
The best shoot I ever presided at was 500 released 496 in the bag 9,000 shell expended. The worse shoot was 100 birds released and 12 birds bagged and that included the walk-up after wards. as you might imagine lots of birds left over to train on the following week

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:46 pm

gundogguy wrote:
the system used here in the US is designed to do one thing sell a large number of birds quickly,
sport and tradition have very little to do with it.

It's the same here! with commercial shoots ,the birds in the bag are revenue (dollars at the end of the day) no-matter how they are shot found or delivered at the end of the day. It's not my favoured course with or without horse ,but sometimes a necessary evil as it brings revenue to the overall 'game'.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:53 pm

Thanks for the explanation. As long as a good effort is being made to find the birds that get shot I don't mind at all how it is done.

We have drives here where we are told not to send our dogs into certain woods to fetch any birds that may have fallen in there during the drives. Those woods will be hunted through by the beaters dogs as part of a later drive and the beaters dogs find the birds.

Bill T.

SpringerDude · Post by **SpringerDude** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:01 pm

The way the dogs are handled is sometimes up to the handler and the shoot. At Show Me Birds, they want the dog going after the birds as they are hit. I like to keep my dogs steady until the bird is down before I send them. I will also hold my dogs off a "dead" bird in case the next one shot is a cripple and I need to get a good mark and quick recovery of that bird. However, not all the dogs are trained to a nice level. Some handlers think that just because their dog will run out and grab and bird and come back it is "trained" but they really don't have any control over their dog. But that is OK. This shoot has historically had mostly Lab's on the course but there have been some nice spaniels getting some work as well. Sometimes 4 of the 10 stations have nice springers.

We sit close to the gun so that we are out of the guns way. We sit down so we are safely out of the way of a high shot crossing on either side of the guns. No birds are to be shot below a 45 degree angle due to the potential of a dog being out on a retrieve and a low shot could be hazardous.

The shoots are all in the afternoon and the "clean up" hunt will take place in the following morning. So the shoot owner wants all dogs on lead so that birds are not being flushed off the farm.

One difference is that on a 300 bird shoot, all 300 birds are paid for. The gunners get to evenly split the shot birds after they are cleaned by the shoot workers. A little different than only paying for the birds shot.

I use the shoots to work on the obedience of waiting while multiple gun shots are fired and watching un shot birds flying overhead. We all know our dogs will retrieve birds so keeping track of retrieves is not as important as watching the dog handle technical situations. Such as ... stopping on a retrieve to mark a shot bird and then completing the first retrieve before picking up the 2nd bird marked. or .. marking down several dead birds, then making a long cripple retrieve and then quickly picking up the dead birds as the shooters rotate stations. Just fun to give the dog plenty of experience.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:37 am

Purina pro plan article of the 2013 Cocker National Champs in Bismarck North Dakota. Well done!
https://purinaproclub.com/resource-libr ... o-Bismarck

SpringerDude · Post by **SpringerDude** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:11 am

A few interesting SI articles: Spaniel Related

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:57 am

SpringerDude wrote:A few interesting SI articles: Spaniel Related

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

Thanks Tim for the links, I was amazed at the bias in the article Mag1001629 was a hit list against field trailing.

SpringerDude · Post by **SpringerDude** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:55 am

Hal,
Do you think they would have used $17,000 worth of pheasants to run 29 dogs in that National?

That seems a little "high" in my opinion.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:48 am

SpringerDude wrote:Hal,
Do you think they would have used $17,000 worth of pheasants to run 29 dogs in that National?

That seems a little "high" in my opinion.

In 1955 if the birds were $4@ that would mean they had in excess of 4000 pheasant purchased for the champs. That would be a few to many birds for 29 dogs spread over the course of the trial.
In all these years I have never read an article that brought finances into the discussion of field trailing.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:40 am

Next weekend I am going to make the trek to take in the Central Ontario Spaniel Club's Open AA trial! I can't wait to see some high caliber springers and cockers competing! This will be my first trial I have ever observed. Any tips to make make it the best experience possible?

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:10 am

Get there early and volunteer to carry the shagger's basket. You will have the best view.
Mike

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:32 am

MJB64 wrote:Get there early and volunteer to carry the shagger's basket. You will have the best view.
Mike

Good for you Cass good advice on the shagging,4th best spot in the trial after the handler,judge, and guns.
Take water bound to be warm. Let people know where you live you might be surprised that some of the entrants may be close by neighbors, look for training opportunities with those in a attendance. Dan Lussen from NY, George Kittle from our club Great lakes is on the Judges panel. George lives about an hour east of us in North Adams, Mi Have fun!
I see that Sudbury is running this weekend, had a placement there back in early part of decade, our Blaze dog!