The Spaniel Spot

[gundogguy]

You always make me smile Michael

Robert, Yes he does

[crackerd]

Strewth ! It's getting like that old t.v. programme called ," All Our Yesterday's" on here ! My earliest recollection of "rabbit hunting" is from about 1952 -53, I used to wait at an open window of a big old wooden hut for a rabbit to peek out from where they lived under the hut ...... I then dropped old bricks to try to brain 'em !

Bill T.

Between Bill T and Crackerd I'm going batty, I think the real name of this old TV programme is "The Last of the Summer Wine" or possible "Keeping up Appearances" You know the one with Mrs Bucket in the lead role "Mrs Bouquet" as she would prefer!

Thanks for the "compliment," Gundogguy, my hat was always off to Onslow on Keeping Up Appearances as a superior dog trainer (and rabid Green Bay Packers fan too) who kept Mrs. Bucket at bay - Onslow was a star, as was Compo on The Last of the Summer Wine (who might've been Bill T.'s doppelganger, what-what). RIP for the both of them now, alas, Geoffrey Hughes (Onslow) and Bill Owen (Compo).

MG

[Trekmoor]

I'm nuffin like Compo ! He had hair and teeth !

Bill T.

[CDN_Cocker]

Here's a discussion for y'all.... Jake delivers to heel 90% of the time. As a young dog I taught him that way since I was training with a retriever guy more often than the spanner folks. Now that I am starting to get into the spaniel games I worry that this will come back to bite me. Everyone else does the proper spaniel delivery to the front. Lately I have had the place boards out again and trying to get lots of repetitions to the front. With the boards he's an old pro. As soon as I take them away he goes straight to heel and I have to call him to "here", if ya catch my drift. Is this just going to take many reps? Obviously he has delivered a ton to heel so that is the dominant behavior he exhibits.... Even more importantly... does it matter? The rules state that the dog must deliver to hand (which he does flawlessly 100% of the time) but does not specify where his body should be in relation to the handler's. Ok... Go!

[gundogguy]

Here's a discussion for y'all.... Jake delivers to heel 90% of the time. As a young dog I taught him that way since I was training with a retriever guy more often than the spanner folks. Now that I am starting to get into the spaniel games I worry that this will come back to bite me. Everyone else does the proper spaniel delivery to the front. Lately I have had the place boards out again and trying to get lots of repetitions to the front. With the boards he's an old pro. As soon as I take them away he goes straight to heel and I have to call him to "here", if ya catch my drift. Is this just going to take many reps? Obviously he has delivered a ton to heel so that is the dominant behavior he exhibits.... Even more importantly... does it matter? The rules state that the dog must deliver to hand (which he does flawlessly 100% of the time) but does not specify where his body should be in relation to the handler's. Ok... Go!

Penance for sins committed. many many reps to fix. I'm not sure if it is even worth going to "war" over. "Does it matter"? Well you will stick out like a sore thumb! Just make sure when you cast him off Hie-on that he is conditioned to leave facing you with his back to the course, so you can send him down wind properly.
Over the years had a few folks come to training with gun dogs that had committed the same issues with dogs, it is the price they paid for training within a different culture. In those cases we did not bother to correct to many other issues to work on.

[gundogguy]

Cass
There were 8 trials held in Ontario this spring have the placements been published? was wondering about how many springer and cockers qualified for the Can.Nat Champs from those spring trials?

[polmaise]

Just make sure when you cast him off Hie-on that he is conditioned to leave facing you with his back to the course, so you can send him down wind properly.

There is your Golden nugget

[mnaj_springer]

Do you care if you stick out? If you don't, I guess it doesn't matter. I find the heel position useful when waterfowling. Seems to be a quicker transition from mark to memory bird.

[crackerd]

Here's a discussion for y'all.... Jake delivers to heel 90% of the time. ... does it matter? The rules state that the dog must deliver to hand (which he does flawlessly 100% of the time) but does not specify where his body should be in relation to the handler's.

...I'm not sure if it is even worth going to "war" over. "Does it matter"? Well you will stick out like a sore thumb! Just make sure when you cast him off Hie-on that he is conditioned to leave facing you with his back to the course, so you can send him down wind properly.
Over the years had a few folks come to training with gun dogs that had committed the same issues with dogs, it is the price they paid for training within a different culture. In those cases we did not bother to correct to many other issues to work on.

Hah, I'm one of those kultural kontrarians - didn't have too many other issues to work on except for having a minor spaniel that I really, really would've liked to run FTs with. As with mnaj_springer, however, most of my actual gundog work was waterfowling, thus the side delivery (at heel) - and the side send which was/is superb for my needs with multiple marks and lines to them. Also, didn't want to denigrate spaniel tradition by sending from the side back into the bird field with "Hie on!", thus the command for carry on was changed to "Get out!" Always properly downwind, of course...

MG

[polmaise]

I assumed ' since Cass mentioned 'Rules' in his question it was relating to competition rather than the fabulous sport of water fowling .Perhaps I'm reading it different.

[crackerd]

No rules pro or con on delivery and resend for any gundog games that I'm aware of, Robt. But remember, our retriever competitions are waterfowl-based and water-centric. Which means a straight line into the water with momentum behind it is most easily managed by kicking the dog off from one's side. And having it deliver to one's side also better enables the dog's "getting the picture" (regain the picture) it's mentally taken of multiple marks going down since it was at the handler's side when the birds were shot.

MG

[CDN_Cocker]

Yes Robert i am referring to FTs. I waterfowl hunt a fair amount so the delivery to heel is fine for me in that regard, my concern is how the judges would view such a thing

[polmaise]

Yes Robert i am referring to FTs. I waterfowl hunt a fair amount so the delivery to heel is fine for me in that regard, my concern is how the judges would view such a thing

I obviously can't comment on the views of judging on your side of the pond Cass. But I believe they would interpolate the same as the judges this side as per the rules in competition (Over here we have 'J Regulations' , J is is just the letter in the alphabet that relates to 'Gundog trials and tests' .
It also states only that ''Deliver tenderly to hand'' .

I have Retrievers ,Spaniels and HPR'S and all are conditioned to deliver with a sit in front delivery.
This side of the pond that, ''tenderly to hand'' is probably a big influence ? as we have an elimination fault with 'Hard mouth' and any 'shaking' by the dog when the game is in the mouth would/could attract attention? so I suppose the quicker the bird is delivered and handed to the judge in competition would be the best route.

We (UK) ,also don't have multiple marks for retrieving as in Dog by your side in the heel position for spaniels ,the emphasis is on hunting and flushing and in many situations retrieves from shot game that is flushed by the hunting dog and shot is actually a blind ! and the dog is 'cast' from where it 'dropped' - 'Sat to flush or shot' ,therefore remotely cast/sent from that seated position rather than from the heel
Vive le difference ! or not .. I also have all breeds wild fowling and in our more popular sport on driven game days 'Picking up' where they have more than triples to mark whilst at heel often in the hundreds and they appear to work it out . Like Gundogguy pointed out earlier, I don't think it's a battle that requires attention (imo) , after all, if in competition the judge(s) can only judge on what they see and if the dog and handler perform according to the rules as stated then who cares if the dog returns at heel or the front ?.....I know one thing !..Our 'Eye wipe' system sure solves all those problems in one go !

[gundogguy]

Yes Robert i am referring to FTs. I waterfowl hunt a fair amount so the delivery to heel is fine for me in that regard, my concern is how the judges would view such a thing

When trialing there are 1000's of ways to beat yourself. Delivery is one area that you can really leave a lasting impression of team work on the judges mind..if it is done in a proper upland fashion.
I know darn few judges that waterfowl hunt their spaniels. How do you think a non waterfowl judge would view a "retriever finish" on the retrieve? The next time you are at training or trialing pay attention to the dogs on the delivery, How many are face up front and how many deliver retriever style to heel.
Many times in trial it is the odd man out complex! And retriever finish does set one up poorly for a recast on the continue to quarter down the course. The retriever finish encourages a dog to punch straight out and possible pass a bird off to one side or the other. Just saying you will live or die in trial by your standards.

[gundogguy]

Yes Robert i am referring to FTs. I waterfowl hunt a fair amount so the delivery to heel is fine for me in that regard, my concern is how the judges would view such a thing

I obviously can't comment on the views of judging on your side of the pond Cass. But I believe they would interpolate the same as the judges this side as per the rules in competition (Over here we have 'J Regulations' , J is is just the letter in the alphabet that relates to 'Gundog trials and tests' .
It also states only that ''Deliver tenderly to hand'' .

I have Retrievers ,Spaniels and HPR'S and all are conditioned to deliver with a sit in front delivery.
This side of the pond that, ''tenderly to hand'' is probably a big influence ? as we have an elimination fault with 'Hard mouth' and any 'shaking' by the dog when the game is in the mouth would/could attract attention? so I suppose the quicker the bird is delivered and handed to the judge in competition would be the best route.

We (UK) ,also don't have multiple marks for retrieving as in Dog by your side in the heel position for spaniels ,the emphasis is on hunting and flushing and in many situations retrieves from shot game that is flushed by the hunting dog and shot is actually a blind ! and the dog is 'cast' from where it 'dropped' - 'Sat to flush or shot' ,therefore remotely cast/sent from that seated position rather than from the heel
Vive le difference ! or not .. I also have all breeds wild fowling and in our more popular sport on driven game days 'Picking up' where they have more than triples to mark whilst at heel often in the hundreds and they appear to work it out . Like Gundogguy pointed out earlier, I don't think it's a battle that requires attention (imo) , after all, if in competition the judge(s) can only judge on what they see and if the dog and handler perform according to the rules as stated then who cares if the dog returns at heel or the front ?.....I know one thing !..Our 'Eye wipe' system sure solves all those problems in one go !

+1

[CDN_Cocker]

What does eye wipe mean?

[Trekmoor]

Eyewipe......this is a good thing if it is your dog that eyewipes the previous dog or dogs tried on a retrieve. Your dog will gain high marks for performing an eyewipe and all the dogs previously tried on the bird or rabbit or hare will be eliminated from the trial. It is rotten when your dog gets eyewiped though ! I have seen as many as 5 dogs tried on a dead partridge in a retriever trial.
I think two of them were F.T.Ch.'s but none of the dogs could find it.

Out to the fall area walked two judges plus the gun who had shot the bird. The bird was as dead as a doornail and was found by the judges. All 5 dogs were eliminated ! It was a 24 dog Open trial and I think if dogs had continued to be sent about half the dogs in the trial would have been eliminated. I think the judges felt the same way and so they stopped at 5 dogs and picked the bird by hand.

My dogs have been eliminated in retriever trials due to being eyewiped but they also eyewiped other dogs in other trials so we were about eaksy-peaksy.

Eyewipes also happen in our spaniel and HPR trials. An eyewipe is the retrieving equivalent of one pointer bypassing game and it's running mate pointing that game soon afterwards . It is felt, rightly or wrongly, that if a bird can be found then it should be found by the first dog to come near it. Should that first dog fail to find the bird and yet the next dog does then that "next" dog has a better nose.

Eyewipes are a bit of a tradition here and though this may have started in the trial world it soon spread to just about any kind of retrieving. We love to rub it in at shoots if a dog we own manages an eyewipe on another man's dog ! At shoots it is all part of the fun and banter of the day but you should see the long faces when someone's dog gets eyewiped in a trial.

Bill T.

[mnaj_springer]

Cass, instead of reinventing the wheel with Jake, why don't you just get a new tire.

You could try teach a new command in which he is sitting in front, facing you. Maybe "front" or something else of your choosing. That way way you don't have to battle him over the delivery, but once he's given up the bird and you've praised and/or watered him, you can say "front" and then recast, which may help prevent him punching out.

[polmaise]

You could try teach a new command in which he is sitting in front, facing you.

Nearly there !
But, how about the handler 'turning around to face the dog' ? when it does the conditioned 'retrieve to heel ?. That would be 'step 1' ..in shaping a new behaviour/learned response ? for the same reward .

[polmaise]

What does eye wipe mean?

You don't get it in ''tests'' ..Only in ''Trials''
When the handler and dog fails to deliver that particular game tenderly to hand and the other one does

[gundogguy]

What does eye wipe mean?

In Cocker trials here in the States an "Eye wipe " allowably and possible have seen a number of times.

[Trekmoor]

I was given a springer pup of 5 months old to train last Sunday. Her owner wanted her to retrieve , she was not keen on it he said.
Some pics of the springer pup. I can now have her retrieve right past my other dogs as in the pic below with a tennis ball ......and I discovered today that she is a natural pointer ! She either scented a rabbit my Brittany was pointing or she honoured the Brittany's point .....or maybe a bit of both ???





She isn't keen on cover yet, all she has known up to now is a large, paved courtyard . Training retrieving only would be boring for me and for her so I will do a bit more than her owner asked me to do. It will give me practice for when I get my own springer several months from now.

Bill T.

[crackerd]

I was given a springer pup of 5 months old to train last Sunday. Her owner wanted her to retrieve , she was not keen on it he said.
Some pics of the springer pup. I can now have her retrieve right past my other dogs as in the pic below with a tennis ball ......and I discovered today that she is a natural pointer ! She either scented a rabbit my Brittany was pointing or she honoured the Brittany's point .....or maybe a bit of both ???

Golden opportunity, Bill - send her over, c/o Gundogguy, Upper Peninsula, or c/o me, Eastern Seaboard, and we'll get her either in the spaniel hunt test program or the pointing dog tests if they open them up to odd breeds that are not spaniels like they have done with "flushing tests." Surely, she'll flush, too?

MG

PS I thought this was to be your dog that you were all excited about on "wullie's" forum, and not a client's springer?

[Trekmoor]

I probably won't be getting my own springer until December or January. Probably January as I think his owner/breeder will be travelling up to here for a trial or two then. This late date will give him enough time to ensure he isn't giving me the best of the 4 pups by mistake ! I think the pup will be 6-8 months old by then and ready to start work on.

This springer bitch pup I have here to "train" to retrieve is a nice bitch but so far shows not much whizz-bang-wallop when either retrieving or hunting. In fact she does not hunt at all so far . To be fair to her she has never been given any chance to hunt before now. She has experience only of a very large paved courtyard where she was trained by her owner a vocal sit and to walk to heel. I'd have preferred her to have done no heelwork training. I think heelwork , done too early, can inhibit a pup as a hunter.

I was not given her to train as a hunter however, her owner just wanted her to retrieve and she is now doing that, maybe not very fast but she is retrieving. I will try to build on what she is now doing but will also add other bits of training to prevent both her and me becoming bored.

I don't know her breeding because whether a pup's breeding is F.T.Ch. x F.T.Ch. or is Trashcan x Sludgebucket if I take in a dog to train it then I just have to train it.
I don't suppose she will be a consistent pointer. I will not be encouraging the point as it would entail more work for me and because her owner did not ask me to and has no idea that she would point if encouraged. Since she does now retrieve ....and training it was not at all difficult, all I did was play with her, I can now hand her back over but her owner will be given the choice of getting her back with him now or of me continuing to train her for a while yet.

Unfortunately this is the worst part of the year in which to get a spaniel pup hunting. The cover is very high, very thick and is full of jaggy things.
My area has very few rabbits especially in the places where an inexperienced pup could encounter them. Without the Brittany being present I would not have found today's rabbit, she found and pointed it about 40 - 50 yards away from me which is a bit too far out even for one of your American horizon hunting spaniels !

Bill T.

[gundogguy]

I . She has experience only of a very large paved courtyard where she was trained by her owner a vocal sit and to walk to heel. I'd have preferred her to have done no heelwork training. I think heelwork , done too early, can inhibit a pup as a hunter.

Bill T.

Thanks for that comment I believe that as well. Heeling and even to much sit training to early in a pups life can become real handicaps for the pup to over come when it is trying to figure out bird finding. It is like taking the permission away from the dog to be a dog!
"bit too far out even for one of your American horizon hunting spaniels" by not emphasizing heal work developing an American horizon hunting spaniel is quite possible.

[Trekmoor]

My cockers tend to be horizon hunters I have seen two of them as much as 150 yards out trying to find rabbits among gorse bushes on a hillside. They wouldn't last 10 seconds in a trial here but I know that is my fault for letting them hunt further and further out. The picking up I do is mainly to blame for this as I like and expect my dogs to rake the woods far and wide for any fallen birds. Quite often it is just as I am getting annoyed by the length of time they have been away that one or more of the little devils returns with a bird.

Bill T.

[polmaise]

The stop whistle is a good tool to inhibit horizon hunters

[Trekmoor]

I'll tell my cockers that next time they condescend to return.

Bill T.

[Trekmoor]

I thought that since I can't seem to sleep tonight I'd post this in ..... one or two of you may enjoy it. If it is thought unsuitable, mods please feel free to delete.

This evening was training class evening and since my Brittany has come into season I took my cocker Charlie along instead. I have done some training with Charlie over the last four years or so but very little and very infrequently. He does his job as a picking up dog well enough not to need constant retraining.

Picking up standards were not quite enough this evening however ! I haven't been to the classes for about 4 weeks and when I turned up this evening things had changed a bit .....only Labradors , fairly advanced Labradors were present. I joined in with the labs and just made the best of the retrieves as I could.

The training ground is truly excellent , I'm told John Halstead has travelled there to train his labs once or twice . The land is very uneven, full of humps, bumps, very steep hill slopes and numerous ponds . By this time of year the cover is very high, much higher than wee Charlie which put him at a considerable disadvantage. He couldn't even see the marked retrieves being thrown sometimes !

He was not better than the labs but he did manage to retrieve every dummy thrown for him or planted for him as blinds. I had to handle like crazy quite often but between us, he got every dummy. He was having to return towards me at times in order to see which way through all the tall grasses and other cover I was trying to send him. He did a couple of good marked retrieves with no extra commands ....but those two marks were the only ones he could actually see over the tops of the cover . He did blinds and he did double marks as blinds and he did blinds with easily seen distraction dummies.

His worst fault showed when he returned to me with dummies. Charlie is a show off and he is also a bit possessive of dummies. Those two things combined ensured that he wriggled and pirouetted in front of me instead of just giving me the dummies. His antics amused the lab folk but did not amuse me !
The little devil thoroughly enjoyed his evening out and the lab folk were very complimentary about how well he handled. I felt he could have responded at once to some of my stop whistles but he did not. He moved back towards me to try to see me better through or over the cover . It showed dog sense but did not show instant dog obedience.

It was a very pleasant evening out with wee Charlie ..... alias the Devil's own cocker. I have one or two friends who make the sign of the cross to ward off evil when he appears at shoots. Charlie has made his own legend around here.

Charlie .... otherwise known as "Charlie Yabugger !"






Bill T.

[CDN_Cocker]

Fantastic Bill I have enjoyed your posts lately, haven't replied as I don't have much to say but just wanted you to know I enjoy your posts very much. Good to see some pics of Charlie! I really like that young springer you're training too... I love black and white springers. If I ever cross that line, I think I'd be after one.

[mnaj_springer]

I love black and white springers. If I ever cross that line, I think I'd be after one.

Then I won't let you near my little bitch! You wouldn't be the first who's tempted to steal her away

[gundogguy]

Whenever I hear the conversation change to the color of a dog(spaniels). I always think of the old English expression. ""Liver and white for Spaniels Black and white for sheep dogs".

[mnaj_springer]

When I find a breeding and litter I like, I always pick for the color and look. At 8-10 weeks old it seems like a crap shoot, and life's too short to hunt over an ugly dog.

[CDN_Cocker]

Whenever I hear the conversation change to the color of a dog(spaniels). I always think of the old English expression. ""Liver and white for Spaniels Black and white for sheep dogs".

LOL, I still think they look sharp. When they're little balls of fur there isn't much else to base your choice on other than colour lol. If I was after a springer though I wouldn't look specifically for black and white. Only if there were black and white pups in the breeding that I wanted would I end up with one.

[gundogguy]

Hey Mnag and Cdn color does not matter to me, and it does not matter to me if that is what you like. You like it! My 1st Springer Turtle Creek Free Spirit was a gorgeous Black and white springer she lived to be 17 yrs old. I shot a pheasant over her on her 17th birthday. She did me proud. Breed he 4 times she never produce a champion though she produced some fine gundogs, she was out some outstanding Satan blood. I have had some really nice B/w spaniels over the years, though I never been able to champion one. Our 6 champs have all been Liver and white. Thank goodness that we spaniel folks have some colour to choose from. Though I'm a little suspect of Tri-colored dogs if you know what I mean.

[gundogguy]

I was given a springer pup of 5 months old to train last Sunday. Her owner wanted her to retrieve , she was not keen on it he said.
Some pics of the springer pup. I can now have her retrieve right past my other dogs as in the pic below with a tennis ball ......and I discovered today that she is a natural pointer ! She either scented a rabbit my Brittany was pointing or she honoured the Brittany's point .....or maybe a bit of both ???

Golden opportunity, Bill - send her over, c/o Gundogguy, Upper Peninsula, or c/o me, Eastern Seaboard, and we'll get her either in the spaniel hunt test program or the pointing dog tests if they open them up to odd breeds that are not spaniels like they have done with "flushing tests." Surely, she'll flush, too?

MG

PS I thought this was to be your dog that you were all excited about on "wullie's" forum, and not a client's springer?

So sorry Though the great Rex Carr taught me never to say never. I will have to say that I NEVER will prepare or enter a dog in the spaniel hunt test again in the near or far future.
By the way how far are You, Crackerd, from Boston or Cooperstown NY? will be out that way next week!

[mnaj_springer]

Hey Mnag and Cdn color does not matter to me, and it does not matter to me if that is what you like. You like it! My 1st Springer Turtle Creek Free Spirit was a gorgeous Black and white springer she lived to be 17 yrs old. I shot a pheasant over her on her 17th birthday. She did me proud. Breed he 4 times she never produce a champion though she produced some fine gundogs, she was out some outstanding Satan blood. I have had some really nice B/w spaniels over the years, though I never been able to champion one. Our 6 champs have all been Liver and white. Thank goodness that we spaniel folks have some colour to choose from. Though I'm a little suspect of Tri-colored dogs if you know what I mean.

If you want to see a nice b/w bitch, look at Ken Hanson's little girl AFC Blue River's Fast Track "River". She's got skills and good looks!

[Trekmoor]

An update on the springer pup I'm getting. His breeder ran - on 4 pups and then 3 and then just two. I've been contacted by the very happy new owner of one of the earlier "discards" who says he is delighted with his pup and that I'm a very lucky man to be getting either one of the two remaining pups .....he has seen them out and about doing puppy things.

The breeder contacted me just 15 minutes ago to say that he has decided which of the remaining two pups he will be keeping .....but he said it was a bit of a toss-up which one he kept. He made his choice based partly on his pups colour, it has more brown in it, and partly because it is a more aggressive hunter. It looks like I will now be getting my pup by the start of September .

It has an Open winner dam and a F.T.Ch. sire with a bit of a name as a cover blaster. My pup will be 6 -7 months old when I get him and I am going to call him "Edge" ......if my wife allows it , she likes little boys names ! :roll:
All the pup knows is to recall to name so I will have every chance to muck up the rest of his training. The original date for me getting him was next January and I'd sort of hoped I'd be getting an already half trained pup . His breeder has far better facilities for spaniel training than I do but that will not be happening.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the pup and will have to restrain my inclinations to take him picking -up at this years shoots .....I'd wreck him for sure !

Bill T.

[polmaise]

What's the sires name Wullie ?

[Trekmoor]

I am very poor at remembering K.C. names but "Saturn Spirit " seems to ring a bell ?

Bill T.

[Trekmoor]

I've been doing a bit more research than I usually do. " F.T.Ch.Saturn Spirit " is the grandsire and his pup "F.T.Ch. Samsir Babbler" is the sire.

Dam (I think) is Open F.T.W. "Tygore Kick."
The 5 generation pedigree only contains about 7 dogs that have not "done something" in field trials. I'm not much of a "Pedigree Pete," I take chances if I know the breeder.

"Pedigree Pete" was the nickname given to a spaniel man about 40 years who could recite pedigrees back to when Methuslah was a pup but who couldn't win a trial to save himself. His nickname has stuck in my head far better than any pedigree !

Bill T.

[polmaise]

Fortunately these days at the touch of a button with 'MYKC' there is no longer the requirement for 'Pedigree Pete' .. who more often than not in those days could not be contested when quoted ! and was usually regarded by folk like myself as a 'blethering auld git'
'Saturn's Spirit' does have a reputation for hard hunting .Some of his off spring don't?..but that could be due to loads of other factors.
Good luck with the pup Wullie I'm sure it will keep you young

[gundogguy]

I've been doing a bit more research than I usually do. " F.T.Ch.Saturn Spirit " is the grandsire and his pup "F.T.Ch. Samsir Babbler" is the sire.

Dam (I think) is Open F.T.W. "Tygore Kick."
The 5 generation pedigree only contains about 7 dogs that have not "done something" in field trials. I'm not much of a "Pedigree Pete," I take chances if I know the breeder.

"Pedigree Pete" was the nickname given to a spaniel man about 40 years who could recite pedigrees back to when Methuslah was a pup but who couldn't win a trial to save himself. His nickname has stuck in my head far better than any pedigree !

Bill T.

We must have his twin over here in U.S. "Pedigree Phil" could tell you every pup of out of top studs and the get from most of the dams, yet could not make a dog cum here if he had to.
Blood is blood you still have to do something with it. As the old saying goes "Train your dog the birds will come"! Have fun Bill T.

[CDN_Cocker]

That Samsir Babbler is a sharp looking dog, I'd love to see what he hunts like

[gundogguy]

And another Throw back Thursday comes around.
1990 conducting the 1st of many work shops for a group of Spanielers.
Myself and me Tally girl,my first English import, demonstrating a finished retrieve!

[mnaj_springer]

And another Throw back Thursday comes around.
1990 conducting the 1st of many work shops for a group of Spanielers.
Myself and me Tally girl,my first English import, demonstrating a finished retrieve!

But it's Wednesday??... Is there a glitch in the Matrix?

[polmaise]

You have to pinch yourself and remember Gundogguy , that you have to understand most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many of them are so injured ,so hopelessly dependant on the system,that they will fight to protect it.

[gundogguy]

You have to pinch yourself and remember Gundogguy , that you have to understand most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many of them are so injured ,so hopelessly dependant on the system,that they will fight to protect it.

Truer words have ever been spoken!

[gundogguy]

As Autumn approaches thought I would share some photo's from the 2nd Springer Field trial ever run, back 1928, on Fishers island, New York

[mnaj_springer]

I like the hats! I wear a similar one while upland hunting, despite the protests of my wife.