The Spaniel Spot

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:45 am

Wow love the photos! Must have been a great time to be there from the start.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:21 am

chrokeva wrote:Must have been a great time to be there from the start.

Gundogguy's not that old! He only goes back to the 1930s and the Dust Bowl era, when they would plant birds in the puckerbrush for trials. His voice is still a little raspy on account of that, except on the Internet. (Just joshing - great shots, Gundogguy.)

MG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:02 pm

We had a fun day competition at the weekend with over 80 folk ,friends family and Gun dog club members .
This was one of the 9 little tasks we set up .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMtPKwvROJc

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:47 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:I like the hats! I wear a similar one while upland hunting, despite the protests of my wife.

C'mon MnaJ you no i cannot let that go! which hats the Ladies are wearing or the ones the Men are wearing?

The first trial I ever gunned I wore a rather stylish fedora, and a shirt and pheasant tie and Tweed shooting jacket, over time when blaze orange became the law of the land. I finished my 12 yrs as a trial gun wearing and orange ball cap with an Old English D on it.
I do remember when we trialers dressed the part we had trialing clothing and regular old every day field clothing for hunting and/or training.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:52 pm

crackerd wrote:
chrokeva wrote:Must have been a great time to be there from the start.
Gundogguy's not that old! He only goes back to the 1930s and the Dust Bowl era, when they would plant birds in the puckerbrush for trials. His voice is still a little raspy on account of that, except on the Internet. (Just joshing - great shots, Gundogguy.)

MG

MG I did not take those pics heavens to betsy my mother was only 1 year baby when that trial was run! Guns were also expected to judge a small part of the trial. Here the traophy for the best Amatuer handler in the Open.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:53 pm

polmaise wrote:We had a fun day competition at the weekend with over 80 folk ,friends family and Gun dog club members .
This was one of the 9 little tasks we set up .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMtPKwvROJc

Nice training day an event for folks to take part in I'm sure!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:44 pm

Thought I would 'bump' the Spaniel spot up ? Just for kicks .
Let's throw a stick for Fido ?
It's been done for decades and all those dogs and family memories have Fido coming back with the stick and the game starts all over again.
So why in the Gun Dog Training world of owners do we frequently see and read posts on social media and forums along with blogs and in magazines of the ever popular issue of 'Retrieving' and all the elements involved in the process to achieve Fido to fetch and bring back to fetch again ?
The Novice 'Gun Dog' owner will at the very minimum require his/her dog to 'Mark' a bird that is shot and falling from the sky ,to be steady to that shot and be comfortable with the situation ,be commanded to fetch by the owner ,pick it comfortably and carry whilst returning and deliver it to hand ?..Right?
So , before any other complicated stuff like Blind retrieving or stop whistle or direction handling etc are attempted does the owner not get Fido to do this basic scenario perfect before attempting anything far beyond the capability of both ?.
Easier said than done ?...Fido has to do some basic training way before any stick or Dummy or even a Bird is shot from the sky ! ..
Heel work and heel position before the dog is sent has to be done . Steadiness and acclimatisation to both shot and thrown dummy , cues and trigger commands for release have to be installed and understood by the dog .familiarisation of retrieve article be it dummy or fur or feather should have been done,and confidence in carrying the article in the mouth without damage and a swift recall to deliver whilst holding until told to release by the owner ! ..Pheww!!
No wonder Fido get's it wrong these day's when you throw a stick ?
Let's use the ever popular 'Cocker' for this ..rather than a ''natural born retriever'?.....
This is the first 2 clips in a series following the progress of this wee dog.
But the 'Yard' stuff like 'Heel, sit ,stay.No, Recall' have obviously been accomplished ,just like any other ''pet dog'' will have or should have achieved . Sort of KC Good citizen bronze certificate smile emoticon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx4mf16oyIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IppyJ7o2Eic

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:36 pm

polmaise wrote:Thought I would 'bump' the Spaniel spot up ? Just for kicks .
Let's throw a stick for Fido ?
It's been done for decades and all those dogs and family memories have Fido coming back with the stick and the game starts all over again.
So why in the Gun Dog Training world of owners do we frequently see and read posts on social media and forums along with blogs and in magazines of the ever popular issue of 'Retrieving' and all the elements involved in the process to achieve Fido to fetch and bring back to fetch again ?
The Novice 'Gun Dog' owner will at the very minimum require his/her dog to 'Mark' a bird that is shot and falling from the sky ,to be steady to that shot and be comfortable with the situation ,be commanded to fetch by the owner ,pick it comfortably and carry whilst returning and deliver it to hand ?..Right?
So , before any other complicated stuff like Blind retrieving or stop whistle or direction handling etc are attempted does the owner not get Fido to do this basic scenario perfect before attempting anything far beyond the capability of both ?.
Easier said than done ?...Fido has to do some basic training way before any stick or Dummy or even a Bird is shot from the sky ! ..
Heel work and heel position before the dog is sent has to be done . Steadiness and acclimatisation to both shot and thrown dummy , cues and trigger commands for release have to be installed and understood by the dog .familiarisation of retrieve article be it dummy or fur or feather should have been done,and confidence in carrying the article in the mouth without damage and a swift recall to deliver whilst holding until told to release by the owner ! ..Pheww!!
No wonder Fido get's it wrong these day's when you throw a stick ?
Let's use the ever popular 'Cocker' for this ..rather than a ''natural born retriever'?.....
This is the first 2 clips in a series following the progress of this wee dog.
But the 'Yard' stuff like 'Heel, sit ,stay.No, Recall' have obviously been accomplished ,just like any other ''pet dog'' will have or should have achieved . Sort of KC Good citizen bronze certificate smile emoticon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx4mf16oyIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IppyJ7o2Eic

Good I like this. This exercise leaves you with all sorts of ways to create degrees of difficulties and ad factors to the routine. Nice Cocker any one would be happy to work with and hunt with.
By the way one of your best efforts as a cinematographer.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:07 pm

gundogguy wrote: By the way one of your best efforts as a cinematographer.

I used the Tripod

..Let's me get on with the stuff I'm slightly better at

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:42 am

polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote: By the way one of your best efforts as a cinematographer.

I used the Tripod ..Let's me get on with the stuff I'm slightly better at

Yeah, the lady who gave you the testimonial on the rtf obviously wanted that made known - she practically stalked me yesterday at training to "sing your praises." Told her she might want to consider importing you as her new trainer. (And wasn't half joking - of course she said I could use your help better than she ever could...

)

MG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:25 am

crackerd wrote: she practically stalked me yesterday at training )
MG

Nice to hear you are still attracting attention !

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:35 am

polmaise wrote:
crackerd wrote: she practically stalked me yesterday at training )
Nice to hear you are still attracting attention !

Usually the wrong kind of attention, but have to admit I turned on my sprinter's speed at about 220 yards instead of turning on the e-collar to make a correction that got the attention of the right party. Thereafter, things swiftly improved...maybe the best training effort of her life as put forth by the now-4-1/2-year-old "yearling." Which, given that the average age of our field trial retrievers is 7.5 years, holds out some promise for her, I suppose - even if she's not a spaniel.

MG

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:51 am

Thank you for posting the videos Polmaise. It was very interesting although I must admit I have a bit of difficulty in translation so I had to watch it twice to make sure I understood

. Good stuff.
Also that is one nice little cocker you have there!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:54 am

chrokeva wrote:Thank you for posting the videos Polmaise. It was very interesting although I must admit I have a bit of difficulty in translation so I had to watch it twice to make sure I understood . Good stuff.
Also that is one nice little cocker you have there!

Ah yes I have trouble with the California accents as well, i can never figure out what they are thinking or doing out your way!

Always have to read or watch reports twice from west coast.

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:01 am

Ahhhh yes that whole California accent thing can be a real problem. Sometimes you can't figure it out even if you are from California

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:14 pm

Sorry folks! I tried doing the 'English' version speak like on 'Pathe News' ..But it came out like a demented sheep giving birth in a gale !

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:26 pm

13 days till goose opens!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:49 pm

4 day's till Partridge !
Spaniels are best suited for this little game bird !

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm

Dove season opens Tuesday, September1st! The number one sought after game bird in the USA.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:12 pm

My new springer pup arrived here this afternoon and I was at once at war with my wife. I wanted to call him "Edge" but my wife likes boys names for male dogs. I have a very vague memory of my grandfather once telling me how to have a happy marriage. He said the trick was to find a good woman, marry her .....and then do what she says !

Normally I follow that advice but this time I stuck to my guns with the result being that I now call him Edge and my wife calls him " Eddie." It will work fine for the pup and it is a good compromise.

The pup has just turned 6 months old, is liver and white with liver fleckings and is rather lively. He is a very natural retriever , he has retrieved everything I have tossed for him so far with no hesitation at all when picking the item up. He does not deliver or present his retrieves as yet , he likes to do a victory circuit around the garden before he brings the article back to me. I'll take my time about curing that , it isn't something that worries me.

His breeder handed him over to me with the warning that he is not in any need of chases of any kind to make him "birdy." That is very true, his prey drive as it is called nowadays is already sky-high ! He charges after every bird that flies over or near my garden and nearly takes the fence with him in his efforts to keep going after the bird.
I had been considering taking him "dogging-in" with me (a form of sheepdogging pheasants back into estates) but having seen his extremely keen reactions to any bird he claps eyes on I have applied the reverse thrusters to that idea !

He knows the name his breeder gave him but that is no help at all since I have changed his name. He knows nothing else at all really but will sit to voice if he is directly in front of me and there is nothing else around to interest him.
His breeder ran-on 4 pups, reduced that to two pups then decided he liked the pup with the most liver in his coat. He also thinks the pup he has kept is likely to be a bit "harder" in nature and a more aggressive hunter......more likely to be a field trial contender.

From what I've seen so far Edge will be more than enough dog for me to train and get some control over . I always have had a strong liking for pups with a lot of "go" in them but Edge may have a bit too much for my state of health and fitness..... I should have got a nice, calm , easy going lab bitch pup but I never have had much sense !

Bill T.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:36 pm

Bill,

Sounds like fun times ahead! Can't wait for a video

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:25 pm

Hey Bill That is good news. Look forward to seeing and hearing about the journey that you and the pup about to take on!
At the very least probable will not have to answer many questions about bed wetting or when to shoot over the little guy.
In the not far near future when your little guy is steady, 'Dogging in" will be such such a great time for him and you. Very few Yanks would even have a clue about it value to both the dogs and the Estate.
Talbot Radcliff and Andrew Greene (Anglesey) mentored me on this particular activity, thanks for reminding me.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:15 pm

Hi Gun Dog Guy. The pup has settled down very quickly here and is calmer than I'd thought he'd be in the house.

If it is of interest to anyone this is an account of the dogging-in I did today with my Brittany and one of my cockers. I have copied it from another forum.
.....................................................................................................................................
Forth Estates - 12. 30 P.M. - mainly cloudy , some sunshine and a steady light to moderate wind.

Dogs - Libby and Charlie.

Pheasants were running along the estate roads in dozens , the dogs could see them and were getting more than just a little bit excited. When I stopped the car to dog-in my chosen stretches of hedge, fence , ditch and tumbledown wall I just about had to sit on the dogs after letting them out of the cage as birds galore were strutting about within 15 yards of my car.

Our first hunt was down a fenceline with rough cover along it's edge on a cheekwind. The birds were tending to run on ahead and then pop out onto the stubble I was walking on and that made things a bit difficult sometimes. Libby would be pointing into the fence line but was being distracted by birds she could easily see moving out of the cover just 10 to 20 feet further on.

She was a bit sticky on her third point and I repeated the flush command in a more commanding tone of voice .......enter Charlie the cocker who was walking at my heel. He is not sticky and I use that same flush command when directing him into patches of thick cover I think he may have missed. Charlie took that command to Libby as being his and nearly knocked her over as he bulldozed right into the nettles and brambles. It was Charlie's flush ....no doubt about that !

Both dogs were not too bad about stopping to flush although Charlie was a bit more chase minded than Libby. As we hunted the next section we were on a tail wind and Libby was at once having to follow foot scent rather than run on then hunt back.....if she'd hunted back to me the birds would have been pushed out in the wrong direction. She was working the foot scent along a strip of rough cover about 20-30 feet wide by 300 yards long as I walked the stubbles outside the cover.

I had a good idea how this was going to end up , she'd "pushed" birds for at least 200 yards without a single bird ever flying off. From my height above the cover I was catching glimpses of several birds running on ahead of her..... I think Libby saw birds from time to time too but she maintained her steady tracking speed through the cover. I don't want my pointing dogs to track on and on so I sent Libby in to flush with a very firm command while making sure Charlie remained at heel. In she went in a 10 to 20 yards rush and up got about 20 pheasants .

Libby collapsed flat on her belly as they flew off...... it's the first time I have ever seen her do that . At first I thought she was being ultra steady but I have a feeling she was slightly frightened by so many birds getting up so close to her...... a bit like when she sees 20 rabbits run off in front of her instead of just one.

On the walk back to my car I let Charlie hunt the cover partly to get any remaining birds out of that hedge line which takes them out of the estate, partly to give him some fun and partly to have him check on Libby's hunting. He found and flushed only 3 birds which I thought put Libby's hunting prowess fairly high up the scale considering she'd flushed about 50 birds in total. That hedgeline , fence and ditch is the main route birds take out of the estate .

I had noticed I'd had to repeat the sit whistle twice as Libby hunted and repeat the recall whistle once which isn't too bad with that number of live distractions moving around so I was pleased with both her and Charlie as I neared my car.
A game crop of what I think is Kale mixed with corn was on my left and Libby moved into it just 20 yards from my car and at once pointed.

I'm not supposed to hunt the gamecrops but I didn't feel it would do too much harm to let her work out her point. I sent her in to flush but the bird was on the run and it took us across the corner of the game crop towards a stubble field. Libby was having trouble tracking that bird, it jinked all over the place and the crop was very thick. It got up just a few feet in front of her and she stopped to flush at once. Then I saw her start to chase, the bird was very poorly feathered and it landed again in the stubble field just 15-20 yards away where Libby could see it.

In Libby's experience as a picking - up dog birds that behave in that way are probably hit by shot and can be caught and retrieved.....she took off to catch it. I blew the whistle long and hard twice and she stopped as the bird made it's escape . It was a very near thing !

Bill T.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:12 am

polmaise wrote:4 day's till Partridge !
Spaniels are best suited for this little game bird !

gundogguy wrote:Dove season opens Tuesday, September1st! The number one sought after game bird in the USA.

Certain spaniels are best suited for this little gamebird, Robt. - gundogguy's got it

Or should I say best suited for this little gamebird when they're not taking big gamebirds out of the dove field!

Fifteenth dove (and early goose) opener for this littl'un tomorrow, quite looking forward to it.

MG

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:34 am

Great photos crackerd!
I am really curious how you handle these little dogs with injured geese and to be honest any big bird (rooster pheasant, etc). that may fight a dog? Is it common practice to force (e-collar) into a bird that is fighting? I have been told forcing them into a bird is how some trainers handle this and I am curious if this is the general conscience. Would it be more appropriate to help build a dogs confidence by putting them on many of these tough birds and helping them get a good outcome by backing them up?

My only experience with this has been in herding where a cow or sheep will turn and fight a dog and I can't imagine forcing them into a bite with a nick but I admit I am a total novice when it comes to gundogs. I know these are really newbie questions and probably most of you are laughing but I figure better to ask than to guess

.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:15 am

chrokeva wrote:...really curious how you handle these little dogs with injured geese and to be honest any big bird (rooster pheasant, etc). that may fight a dog? Is it common practice to force (e-collar) into a bird that is fighting? I have been told forcing them into a bird is how some trainers handle this and I am curious if this is the general conscience. Would it be more appropriate to help build a dogs confidence by putting them on many of these tough birds and helping them get a good outcome by backing them up?

My only experience with this has been in herding where a cow or sheep will turn and fight a dog and I can't imagine forcing them into a bite with a nick but I admit I am a total novice when it comes to gundogs. I know these are really newbie questions and probably most of you are laughing but I figure better to ask than to guess .

Thanks, chrokeva - nobody's laughing at an honest question as you've made, or if they are, they're only showing their own ignorance. First, my dogs when hunting don't wear an e-collar, which puts me in the great minority. The majority don't have it wrong, I just trust that my training has gotten them (the dogs) to the stage where wearing the collar afield is unnecessary - and I also find it's an aesthetic knock on gundog work, necklacing them as such.

As to using the e-collar to force a dog to pick up a goose, or any other sizable or difficult retrieve, don't do that either, as there could be bad ramifications from it. May not be in the minority there, but I can tell you that many still do - force dogs on geese and/or other birds that they should have great desire to retrieve in the first place. If Gonehuntin' on this board ever comes onto The Spaniel Spot thread, he might elaborate a lot better than I ever could based on his many years as professional trainer and hunter as well. But suffice to say, just not something I would ever do except as a last resort with a dog that has no retrieving desire whatsoever, and I've seen very few of those if the retrieving was cultivated from the start.

So what happens if a dog refuses a goose or a wounded pheasant? - well, one might go back to force fetch and better impart it - and even then with praise for what the dog's going through. But the better idea would've been to acclimate your dog to bigger birds right after coming out of force fetch - or even before starting FF if the dog shows interest in, and already has "the chops" - for picking it up. That would have been a dead goose carried over the previous season, or previous hunt, and encouraging the dog to pick it by whatever way you can get the dog enthusiastic over making that retrieve.

Handling bigger birds isn't natural for lots of spaniels (or even some retrievers), and many will balk after first attempting to pick a goose without success. I encourage...I don't force. Once they get the hang of it, and the handling of weight displacement, they will try their hearts out until they can't do it any more. They may drop a goose along the way, or put it down to get a better handle, but I've never demanded perfection, just want game delivered in a prompt and conserving manner, and to hand. I don't think it's overstating the case that any spaniel, any gundog is capable of doing that if you've done the job of bringing them - and their enthusiasm for retrieving - along from an early age. Lastly, you can't simulate a wounded pheasant spurring a dog or a crippled goose wing-flapping a dog in the face, nor would you want to, but I've not known any dogs put off for long by such occurence. If they're gundogs, and well-bred gundogs for their work, a little smack ain't going to be any real setback.

MG

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:57 pm

Thank you for the in depth explanation! It really helps to clarify a few things going through my head. I would love to be able to bring my young cocker out on geese this year as the opportunity is plentiful here in California delta but I keep thinking I may put her overhead so I am so happy to hear that it can be done with time and patience (and lots of good retrieving instinct).
I have heard of several dogs that have had quite a set back from being forced into birds. I am not sure how this (forcing into birds) would differ from the force fetch as it seems most (if not all) the dogs that I have heard of that did badly being forced into birds had already gone through the force fetch. So I am wondering...is the force fetch and forcing into birds the same thing? I hope my questions are not too frustrating

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:21 pm

Sept 1 brings on the early goose season here in Mich and the Mourning dove season in Indiana. I live in Michigan 15 minutes north of Indiana. I kind of like to 'match the hatch" so to speak. The dove season allows for a considerable amount of retrieving opportunities (15 bird bag limit) whereas goose shooting not so much (5 bird bag limit).
I usually shoot my 12 bore year round in training so the dove season allows me to get the 28ga and have some sport.

My good friend Steve Rodock and his EC Smoke having a little polishing session, find,flush steady and call-off retrieve for late in the session. Smoke (7yr) has placements in both the Open and maturer AA. As well as hunting Michigan grouse and woodcock, and Minnesota and North Dakota game birds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN7CTEusA3M

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:57 pm

chrokeva wrote:Thank you for the in depth explanation! It really helps to clarify a few things going through my head. I would love to be able to bring my young cocker out on geese this year as the opportunity is plentiful here in California delta but I keep thinking I may put her overhead so I am so happy to hear that it can be done with time and patience (and lots of good retrieving instinct).
I have heard of several dogs that have had quite a set back from being forced into birds. I am not sure how this (forcing into birds) would differ from the force fetch as it seems most (if not all) the dogs that I have heard of that did badly being forced into birds had already gone through the force fetch. So I am wondering...is the force fetch and forcing into birds the same thing? I hope my questions are not too frustrating

I've made the conscious choice that the first geese I send my dog to pick up will be D-E-A-D dead. If that means I walk out there to finish them, so be it. But she will be confident, eager, and happy retrieving dead geese before she gets a shot at any cripples.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:47 pm

You southern folks are quite lucky with your dove season. We too recently got a dove season but since it is in its infancy, there are not a whole lot to be had. I think it would be a fantastic way to start the season. Unfortunately around here, most of the doves are city dwellers hahaha. Every morning I have at least 8 in my yard when I take the dog out. He gets a sit to the flush refresher every day before his morning pee hahahaha. I hope dove hunting takes off up here and becomes big like it is in the states so people start growing crops to bring the birds in.

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:53 pm

I've made the conscious choice that the first geese I send my dog to pick up will be D-E-A-D dead. If that means I walk out there to finish them, so be it. But she will be confident, eager, and happy retrieving dead geese before she gets a shot at any cripples.

Thinking this is a very wise choice. I imagine a wounded goose could be a pretty darn mean.

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:57 pm

gundogguy wrote: My good friend Steve Rodock and his EC Smoke having a little polishing session, find,flush steady and call-off retrieve for late in the session. Smoke (7yr) has placements in both the Open and maturer AA. As well as hunting Michigan grouse and woodcock, and Minnesota and North Dakota game birds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN7CTEusA3M

What a nice cocker! I really love watching those hard charging dogs

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:12 pm

chrokeva wrote:
I've made the conscious choice that the first geese I send my dog to pick up will be D-E-A-D dead. If that means I walk out there to finish them, so be it. But she will be confident, eager, and happy retrieving dead geese before she gets a shot at any cripples.
Thinking this is a very wise choice. I imagine a wounded goose could be a pretty darn mean.

Geese are mean in general. The only good goose is a dead one!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:53 am

Trekmoor wrote:Hi Gun Dog Guy. The pup has settled down very quickly here and is calmer than I'd thought he'd be in the house.

If it is of interest to anyone this is an account of the dogging-in I did today with my Brittany and one of my cockers. I have copied it from another forum.
.....................................................................................................................................
Forth Estates - 12. 30 P.M. - mainly cloudy , some sunshine and a steady light to moderate wind.

Dogs - Libby and Charlie.

Pheasants were running along the estate roads in dozens , the dogs could see them and were getting more than just a little bit excited. When I stopped the car to dog-in my chosen stretches of hedge, fence , ditch and tumbledown wall I just about had to sit on the dogs after letting them out of the cage as birds galore were strutting about within 15 yards of my car.

Our first hunt was down a fenceline with rough cover along it's edge on a cheekwind. The birds were tending to run on ahead and then pop out onto the stubble I was walking on and that made things a bit difficult sometimes. Libby would be pointing into the fence line but was being distracted by birds she could easily see moving out of the cover just 10 to 20 feet further on.

She was a bit sticky on her third point and I repeated the flush command in a more commanding tone of voice .......enter Charlie the cocker who was walking at my heel. He is not sticky and I use that same flush command when directing him into patches of thick cover I think he may have missed. Charlie took that command to Libby as being his and nearly knocked her over as he bulldozed right into the nettles and brambles. It was Charlie's flush ....no doubt about that !

Both dogs were not too bad about stopping to flush although Charlie was a bit more chase minded than Libby. As we hunted the next section we were on a tail wind and Libby was at once having to follow foot scent rather than run on then hunt back.....if she'd hunted back to me the birds would have been pushed out in the wrong direction. She was working the foot scent along a strip of rough cover about 20-30 feet wide by 300 yards long as I walked the stubbles outside the cover.

I had a good idea how this was going to end up , she'd "pushed" birds for at least 200 yards without a single bird ever flying off. From my height above the cover I was catching glimpses of several birds running on ahead of her..... I think Libby saw birds from time to time too but she maintained her steady tracking speed through the cover. I don't want my pointing dogs to track on and on so I sent Libby in to flush with a very firm command while making sure Charlie remained at heel. In she went in a 10 to 20 yards rush and up got about 20 pheasants .

Libby collapsed flat on her belly as they flew off...... it's the first time I have ever seen her do that . At first I thought she was being ultra steady but I have a feeling she was slightly frightened by so many birds getting up so close to her...... a bit like when she sees 20 rabbits run off in front of her instead of just one.

On the walk back to my car I let Charlie hunt the cover partly to get any remaining birds out of that hedge line which takes them out of the estate, partly to give him some fun and partly to have him check on Libby's hunting. He found and flushed only 3 birds which I thought put Libby's hunting prowess fairly high up the scale considering she'd flushed about 50 birds in total. That hedgeline , fence and ditch is the main route birds take out of the estate .

I had noticed I'd had to repeat the sit whistle twice as Libby hunted and repeat the recall whistle once which isn't too bad with that number of live distractions moving around so I was pleased with both her and Charlie as I neared my car.
A game crop of what I think is Kale mixed with corn was on my left and Libby moved into it just 20 yards from my car and at once pointed.

I'm not supposed to hunt the gamecrops but I didn't feel it would do too much harm to let her work out her point. I sent her in to flush but the bird was on the run and it took us across the corner of the game crop towards a stubble field. Libby was having trouble tracking that bird, it jinked all over the place and the crop was very thick. It got up just a few feet in front of her and she stopped to flush at once. Then I saw her start to chase, the bird was very poorly feathered and it landed again in the stubble field just 15-20 yards away where Libby could see it.

In Libby's experience as a picking - up dog birds that behave in that way are probably hit by shot and can be caught and retrieved.....she took off to catch it. I blew the whistle long and hard twice and she stopped as the bird made it's escape . It was a very near thing !

Bill T.

Great fun,Bill. Folks would have know idea what that type of work would be like. It brought back many memories. Thanks for sharing!

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:43 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:You southern folks are quite lucky with your dove season. We too recently got a dove season but since it is in its infancy, there are not a whole lot to be had. I think it would be a fantastic way to start the season. ... I hope dove hunting takes off up here and becomes big like it is in the states so people start growing crops to bring the birds in.

Cass, a little clarification: Y'all need to start growing Boykins to bring the birds in -

Bringing birds in with the best of 'em for 15 seasons now -

and bringing credence to that bumper sticker, you know, the one that goes

BOYKINS ARE BETTER DOVERS

MG

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:37 am

Hahaha. You know I think a boykin would be right up my alley. I like the compactness of a spaniel, but I'm a real fan of retrievers as well - its just the size that prevented me from getting a lab when I got Jake. Boykin might be the best of both worlds. However, after seeing the style of a cocker hunting I don't know if I'll ever be able to stray from it now. As much as I love labs when I'm throwing birds and/or being a retired gunner near a blind retrieve, I don't enjoy watching them hunt like I do a spaniel. I think I need a bigger house with lots of land so I can get one of everything I want!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:55 pm

crackerd wrote:
CDN_Cocker wrote:You southern folks are quite lucky with your dove season. We too recently got a dove season but since it is in its infancy, there are not a whole lot to be had. I think it would be a fantastic way to start the season. ... I hope dove hunting takes off up here and becomes big like it is in the states so people start growing crops to bring the birds in.
Cass, a little clarification: Y'all need to start growing Boykins to bring the birds in -

Bringing birds in with the best of 'em for 15 seasons now -

and bringing credence to that bumper sticker, you know, the one that goes

BOYKINS ARE BETTER DOVERS

MG

The most wonderful aspect of dove season is that it usually very short lived. My needs for a non-slip retriever usually last a day or 2. However it does give us a chance to burn some powder and start talking about the Grouse and woodcock openers which will be in less than two weeks.
Out with a dear friend and her Airedale for a bit of sport! As she usually reminds me the Airedale is bred for everything, Fur, feather, or man! This a particular dog can hunt all that might and if need be with take the bad guy down on command!

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:52 am

I experienced a very bad hiccup in my training of the springer pup I got last Saturday. In short, I lost him ! We were about 6 miles from home and in a wood when a large dog approached and the pup took off. The large dog was a show bred setter and he was not at all aggressive but the pup took fright and ran off into the woods.

I saw him again just once that afternoon but a lady who was trying to help went towards him and she had a big dog with her so the pup ran off again. That was early on Wednesday afternoon and he was seen by a woman riding her horse that same afternoon. By the following day I'd contacted the local dog wardens, the police, the local vets and anyone else I could think of about his being lost.

I searched for hours for him on Thursday but didn't find him and there were no sightings of him either from the public. On Friday Polmaise turned up at my door to help in the search and we spent most of the morning looking for him as I placed food near to where the lady on horseback had seen him. We didn't find him but I'd taken my Brittany with me hoping Edge might be pleased to see her. I let her roam a bit but she only found a hare.
Robert had to go home but my wife and I searched again with no joy. Thanks Robert, it was appreciated.

Then just as my wife and I began to drive home we were told he had been seen at 10 p.m. on the Thursday night by a lady who lives nearby. I went to her house and though she wasn't in her husband gave me what details he could of where he had been seen ......it was exactly the same area he'd first got lost in . Then at 7 p.m. he was seen again in that area by another lady who'd read about his loss on Facebook and who had gone searching for him. I went down into a very steep sided ravine above the river 100 yards down below and looked for him along the side of the ravine but for a human that hillside is nearly impossible to move along. I went back to my car exhausted never having seen him.
That place is the most difficult place for a man to move about in around there but that was Edge's chosen hiding place .....probably because it never gets disturbed ?

I now had a feeling he was only coming out of hiding in the evening and in the dark of night to scavenge. My wife and I went back there last night at about 9 p.m. intending to "stakeout" the place until midnight. It was pitch black in those trees near the ravine but we stuck it out and caught a very quick glimpse of him but my wifes torch scared him off.
Another hour or two went by and along came the same lady who had seen him on Thursday night. She doesn't even own a dog but she hated to think of a terrified 6 months old pup out there and starving so she'd gone to the trouble of buying a bag of treats to attract him with.

By sheer chance he came back into view in her cars headlights and to cut a long story short he stuck his head into the bowl of food I'd brought with me and we caught him. He'd had me worried sick .....almost literally. I had hardly eaten or slept since he got lost .

I do not know if it actually helped or not but I'd deliberately urinated on some fence posts and a few trees in that area hoping my scent would "hold" him there. I also do not know why his stomach was bulging full when we found him.....but I do have a strong suspicion ! About 200 yards from there at the top of the hill is a large dog kennels full of highly pedigreed show dogs. I think he'd raided it , maybe more than once !

Once that food appeared again "at his other end" my wife who has a nose a bloodhound would be proud of, at once declared ....."That's Arden Grange." That type of kibble is just about the most expensive on the market here .....Edge had been doing well for himself ! He was very thirsty but not particularly hungry.

He had behaved as a wild animal would and had deliberately moved away from human contact while he was lost. Perhaps he felt he was being hunted by the several well meaning people who'd joined in the search on Thursday and Friday ?

He is covered in burrs and seems to have wrenched a hind leg in some way.... I will be taking him to the vet for a check - up.

I am not at all sure how his training will go after this experience . He definitely does not like large dogs and is maybe wary of human contact too now. I think I will take him to obedience classes, not for the training but to let him see large dogs under closely supervised conditions.
I'll let you know how we get on but this has cast a shadow over his career as a gundog.

Sorry for the long story but I have such a sense of relief that he is now safe again after 3 days and nights of "free hunting."

Bill T.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:42 am

Wonderful news Wullie, I was following Edge's story on the other forum. Glad he's back home, now you can rest your mind a bit!

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:29 am

You are very lucky. I had a similar experience and never saw my dog again. Not something you totally get over ever .

shags · Post by **shags** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:58 pm

What a harrowing experience! Losing a dog is the worst, and I'm glad you got him back.

FWIW, sometimes it helps to lay your jacket or some other article of clothing with your scent on it in the area your dog took off from, or where he seems to be hanging out. Some folks even leave the dog's crate with the door open. Plenty of dogs have been found curled up on the jacket or in the crate the next day.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:42 am

Good to hear Bill Always tough to lose one really uplifting when you do get them back.
Link is to a recent story here in the USA Lost dog is found! http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/06/lo ... tcmp=hpbt4

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:48 pm

I took the springer pup to the river early this evening . I already knew he liked splashing though shallow water but I wanted to see if he would swim in slightly deeper water. He went straight in with no encouragement at all and swam a couple of strokes and brought back the dummy. At least he's not frightened of water !

Bill T.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:02 pm

This is good news Wullie!

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:14 am

So happy that you found your pup.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:18 pm

Thanks, the pups doing fine and is just beginning to regain some of his confidence. He now has a fear of people and of large dogs, I hope time and maybe some treats given to him by strangers will help to get him over this.

Bill T.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:21 pm

Trekmoor wrote:Thanks, the pups doing fine and is just beginning to regain some of his confidence. He now has a fear of people and of large dogs, I hope time and maybe some treats given to him by strangers will help to get him over this.

Bill T.

Good to hear>we will know you are really doing well when the pictures of this pup start showing up!!! Hint Hint!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:36 pm

I'm sure You will pull this dog around Bill. I was more than happy to spend that day help looking for the lost pup.Good to catch up with you too! Been a long time.
I hardly catch up with you these days other than the visit at your place on times like this.
Looking forward to your development with this one on this forum and possible encounters on the circuit

atb
Robert

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:55 pm

Well the goose and dove opener has came and almost passed. Unfortunately I won't be out till next week because I'm a fool and am getting married on Saturday hahaha. Next Saturday though the holy grail opens - grouse, followed by woodcock on the 20th (sunday). I don't clip the dog but I decided to try and do something about those burr magnets the average person calls "ears". I shaved them down a bit (not a whole lot, just trimmed up with scissors and shaved behind the ear. I'm not crazy with how it looks but hopefully it will save me some work next week. Should be interesting, with all the wedding planning and my crazy hours at work I haven't had him on birds this summer. Anxious to see how that will pan out. I plan on going out next weekend if its not too hot, although I don't care for early season grouse and woodcock... Too much green. October is on the way though so I have that to look forward to. Next week will be more conditioning than anything I suppose.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:22 pm

Congrats on the impending nuptials. My anniversary is September 12th as well!