The Spaniel Spot

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:58 am

The expense of the game will really test one's mettle but after 35 yrs I think I have settled in. Like what my wife tells folks It is what we do!

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:42 am

Here is a video of my little girl on one of her senior hunt tests in Washington this past month. The first bird was better and I sent her a little too quick on her second bird because I was thinking to myself that it was a difficult retrieve so sending her quickly was a good idea (in retrospect I think I should have held her a bit longer). I am hoping to have her ready for master by December but thinking the water work is going to hold us back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgrgB5pM2TM

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:01 pm

Good video! and you are correct about delaying the release for the retrieve. It is at this stage in pups development I want to turn marks into memory marks.
Call Bridgett off the shot flyer bring here to heal and walk away, leaving the bird for the time being. In the beginning 10-15 feet then send her for the bird. as she develops I would want the goal to be to leave the training field completely, go all the back to the truck then send her.
Of course in a group session explain to others present that is your plan. Also starting healing her in the gallery while another dog is working, start the honoring process and polish on her manners, she must be quiet and calm in the gallery when another dog working. Keep at it your doing well. When at training I would also encourage your guns to ride birds out a bit farther. "I always remind them that i would rather have bird missed at 50 yards than killed at 25 yards" Now you can not do that at a Test you have take what they give you. Trial guns are different they will do that automatically.
Hal

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:29 pm

gundogguy wrote:Training develops the strength needed. Over the years have seen a lot of flush shy dogs that just do not handle the explosion of the wings in the cover. It is the strong dog that can stand the commotion that is taking place at the moment of flush.

Training for the very same or similar yesterday. It wasn't the best of days weather for shooting .The birds quite rightly did not want to fly in to that grey matter,but it did make the opportunity to have them sit tight and in numbers. There is about 30 -40 pheasants right in front of this young guy and he handles pressure like he was more mature in years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5Ay_4v ... e=youtu.be

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:01 pm

gundogguy wrote:Good video! and you are correct about delaying the release for the retrieve. It is at this stage in pups development I want to turn marks into memory marks.
Call Bridgett off the shot flyer bring here to heal and walk away, leaving the bird for the time being. In the beginning 10-15 feet then send her for the bird. as she develops I would want the goal to be to leave the training field completely, go all the back to the truck then send her.
Of course in a group session explain to others present that is your plan. Also starting healing her in the gallery while another dog is working, start the honoring process and polish on her manners, she must be quiet and calm in the gallery when another dog working. Keep at it your doing well. When at training I would also encourage your guns to ride birds out a bit farther. "I always remind them that i would rather have bird missed at 50 yards than killed at 25 yards" Now you can not do that at a Test you have take what they give you. Trial guns are different they will do that automatically.
Hal

Thank you for the wise advice. I have not even thought of turning her marks into memory marks but it sounds like very good advice indeed. I would imagine doing this will help with steadyness as well as memory? Also healing her in the gallery during training is something she needs badly. Her gallery manners when at recent tests and trials was less than stellar and I promised myself I would work on it.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:04 pm

Great video chroveka!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:48 pm

polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote:Training develops the strength needed. Over the years have seen a lot of flush shy dogs that just do not handle the explosion of the wings in the cover. It is the strong dog that can stand the commotion that is taking place at the moment of flush.
Training for the very same or similar yesterday. It wasn't the best of days weather for shooting .The birds quite rightly did not want to fly in to that grey matter,but it did make the opportunity to have them sit tight and in numbers. There is about 30 -40 pheasants right in front of this young guy and he handles pressure like he was more mature in years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5Ay_4v ... e=youtu.be

Robt, You have it so good there. Wow do I miss beating and picking! What great sport, and a super way to polish off a good young dog, or proof a veteran dog

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:50 pm

chrokeva wrote:
gundogguy wrote:Good video! and you are correct about delaying the release for the retrieve. It is at this stage in pups development I want to turn marks into memory marks.
Call Bridgett off the shot flyer bring here to heal and walk away, leaving the bird for the time being. In the beginning 10-15 feet then send her for the bird. as she develops I would want the goal to be to leave the training field completely, go all the back to the truck then send her.
Of course in a group session explain to others present that is your plan. Also starting healing her in the gallery while another dog is working, start the honoring process and polish on her manners, she must be quiet and calm in the gallery when another dog working. Keep at it your doing well. When at training I would also encourage your guns to ride birds out a bit farther. "I always remind them that i would rather have bird missed at 50 yards than killed at 25 yards" Now you can not do that at a Test you have take what they give you. Trial guns are different they will do that automatically.
Hal
Thank you for the wise advice. I have not even thought of turning her marks into memory marks but it sounds like very good advice indeed. I would imagine doing this will help with steadyness as well as memory? Also healing her in the gallery during training is something she needs badly. Her gallery manners when at recent tests and trials was less than stellar and I promised myself I would work on it.

If you are attending a group session get as much work done as possible use them to your best advantage. make friends but do not spend that valuable time just socializing train your dog.

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:23 pm

polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote:Training develops the strength needed. Over the years have seen a lot of flush shy dogs that just do not handle the explosion of the wings in the cover. It is the strong dog that can stand the commotion that is taking place at the moment of flush.
Training for the very same or similar yesterday. It wasn't the best of days weather for shooting .The birds quite rightly did not want to fly in to that grey matter,but it did make the opportunity to have them sit tight and in numbers. There is about 30 -40 pheasants right in front of this young guy and he handles pressure like he was more mature in years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5Ay_4v ... e=youtu.be

That was impressive for him to keep his cool in that excitement. Nice work.

Mike

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:25 pm

gundogguy wrote:
gundogguy wrote: If you are attending a group session get as much work done as possible use them to your best advantage. make friends but do not spend that valuable time just socializing train your dog.

ahhhh it is like you have been spying on me at training

. OK less socializing and more training it is.

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:31 pm

MJB64 wrote:
polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote:Training develops the strength needed. Over the years have seen a lot of flush shy dogs that just do not handle the explosion of the wings in the cover. It is the strong dog that can stand the commotion that is taking place at the moment of flush.
Training for the very same or similar yesterday. It wasn't the best of days weather for shooting .The birds quite rightly did not want to fly in to that grey matter,but it did make the opportunity to have them sit tight and in numbers. There is about 30 -40 pheasants right in front of this young guy and he handles pressure like he was more mature in years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5Ay_4v ... e=youtu.be
That was impressive for him to keep his cool in that excitement. Nice work.

Mike

It really is amazing how well this young dog handles what is going on!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:23 am

chrokeva wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
gundogguy wrote: If you are attending a group session get as much work done as possible use them to your best advantage. make friends but do not spend that valuable time just socializing train your dog.
ahhhh it is like you have been spying on me at training . OK less socializing and more training it is.

Over the years I have seen much that goes on at a training session, Divorces, marriages and who knows what. Keep you dog out on a lead and be ready to recognize training opportunities. That will really help make the birds seem less expensive and you get more bang for your buck! Keep on pressing on!

A side note, after 3 series of the Cocker Champs there are 49 dogs left. 40 dogs have been excused in the first 3 series. 4 & 5th today and tomorrow with water some where in between

and our Zeta made a 4th place at Sinking Valley, Tyrone, PA ESS trial 10/29. Hopefully she has come out of her funk that was brought by a heat cycle. She will run again at Valley Forge Trial Saturday

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:32 am

I think they just started the third series today.

Mike

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:19 pm

Like I was saying Cocker Champs called 30 dog back to the fourth. They have literally been whacking close to 20 dogs a day out the of trial each series They called 87 dogs to the line in series one, now with 30 left with 2 series to go. Sharp pencils.. From what I have been told marking and retrieving been the real problem for those that are now on the side lines spectating.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:05 am

The beginning of the 5th and final series of the US Cocker Champs. 19 dogs back in the wood. rainy misty day here in Michigan 47 degrees F

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:29 pm

Good luck Jordan!

jhorak · Post by **jhorak** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:44 pm

We came out okay in an extremely difficult and competitive Nationals. Third place, Guns, and Amateur Handler. My other entry got a certificate of completion, but no hardware.

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:56 pm

Congrats on a great week.

Mike

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:03 pm

jhorak wrote:

We came out okay in an extremely difficult and competitive Nationals. Third place, Guns, and Amateur Handler. My other entry got a certificate of completion, but no hardware.

That is a amazing accomplishment. Congratulations!!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:38 am

Nice work Jordan, very well done indeed!

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:22 am

Well done.

Bill T.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:35 pm

All right! Congrats.

Flint · Post by **Flint** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:24 am

Very impressive Jordan!

Enjoy!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:42 am

Always a balancing act between encouraging the hunt and allowing the dog to hunt on it's own whilst maintaining a bold flush with a stop to that flush.

This young one had been 'pulling out on scent' recently especially on sparse cover.
A cock Pheasant was spotted running along the edge of a fenced wall with open ground to the right. Perfect opportunity to 'pip' this one on the ground scent rather than let him run on the scent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjUT0-r ... e=youtu.be

jhorak · Post by **jhorak** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:17 pm

Flint wrote:Very impressive Jordan!

Enjoy!

Thanks! Kind of cool that you saw the conception of the addiction 4 years ago

Flint · Post by **Flint** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:31 am

jhorak wrote:
Flint wrote:Very impressive Jordan!

Enjoy!
Thanks! Kind of cool that you saw the conception of the addiction 4 years ago

I saw it coming!

I expect to hear a lot more from you in the future.

Smilin Spaniels · Post by **Smilin Spaniels** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:51 am

I've been following this thread for a while and I must say, it is great. I have a FBECS. I love showing what these little dogs can do. I certainly can't say I'm very experienced with training a gun dog, but so far she has turned out great. I am curious though, field trials intrigue me. I am wondering, where would one even start to look so they know how to train the dog for what it would be judged on? Sorry if this is a very rookie grade question, but that's what I am, and I'm hoping to continue learning from this thread. Thanks everyone!

Smilin Spaniels · Post by **Smilin Spaniels** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:47 am

Just curious, as I am a rookie trainer you could say, but where would you even begin to look or check to know how to train your dog if you wanted to do field trials. I'm assuming their are certain things that would need to be trained that aren't necessarily needed if you are just the casual hunter. Just curious as field trials are kind of intriguing.

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:04 pm

Smilin Spaniels wrote:Just curious, as I am a rookie trainer you could say, but where would you even begin to look or check to know how to train your dog if you wanted to do field trials. I'm assuming their are certain things that would need to be trained that aren't necessarily needed if you are just the casual hunter. Just curious as field trials are kind of intriguing.

Here are a couple of places to start.

http://www.mnhuntingspaniel.com/
http://www.fieldcockers.com/

Mike

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:50 pm

Smilin Spaniels wrote:Just curious, as I am a rookie trainer you could say, but where would you even begin to look or check to know how to train your dog if you wanted to do field trials. I'm assuming their are certain things that would need to be trained that aren't necessarily needed if you are just the casual hunter. Just curious as field trials are kind of intriguing.

First hand is best

Get in touch with someone who already does it successfully.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:27 pm

Smilin Spaniels wrote:I've been following this thread for a while and I must say, it is great. I have a FBECS. I love showing what these little dogs can do. I certainly can't say I'm very experienced with training a gun dog, but so far she has turned out great. I am curious though, field trials intrigue me. I am wondering, where would one even start to look so they know how to train the dog for what it would be judged on? Sorry if this is a very rookie grade question, but that's what I am, and I'm hoping to continue learning from this thread. Thanks everyone!

Go to your breeder, start there. if they are not involved in spaniel performance events then find some in your state that is. Go to a trial walk in the gallery ask questions. If it looks like a good time you will be able to find a training group.
links to Cocker info http://www.fieldcockers.com/
The FBCocker calendar http://www.fieldcockers.com/events2015.html
This has just ended with the National Championships, however the new year will begin very soon. Springer Champs are set to begin very soon. Amatuer Champs begin tommorrow in New York, Open Champs begin the 19th of November in Oregon
The internet is great for generalized information, Spaniel training requires getting your hands dirty in the field. Good luck finding like minded folks to work with.
Hal

Smilin Spaniels · Post by **Smilin Spaniels** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:36 pm

Thanks for the information. And sorry for the double post. Appreciate the responses.

jhorak · Post by **jhorak** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:31 pm

What part of MN are you in? There are quite a few Spaniel people in the state, and some great resources.

Also, while not easy, you can certainly figure this stuff out on your own. Read some of the resources that have already been mentioned, watch some videos, read the green book on trials, and get busy training. Also, hunt tests are a great way to start out and get you ready to make the leap to trials.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:35 am

Results of the 2015 ESS National Amatuer Champinonships http://essft.com/2015nac/callbacks.html

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:49 am

A 9 year old winning 'Gundogguy' .I assume that's pretty exceptional ?

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:24 pm

polmaise wrote:A 9 year old winning 'Gundogguy' .I assume that's pretty exceptional ?

Gives me hope yet hahahaha

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:31 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:
polmaise wrote:A 9 year old winning 'Gundogguy' .I assume that's pretty exceptional ?
Gives me hope yet hahahaha

I would say that 9+ years is exceptional, I'm sure she has had a long and exciting career.

Haha ha! Cass you might notice that Treva had 3 other champioships made over the last 9 yrs, NAFC FC AFC CFC Expressway's Retrievin' Fool - Treva
She has had a long career in the trial game I be doubting that Montler sat around waiting for her to mature.

The National Open Champs begin Nov 19. Out west in Oregon I believed 89 dogs are entered.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:27 am

gundogguy wrote:
CDN_Cocker wrote:
polmaise wrote:A 9 year old winning 'Gundogguy' .I assume that's pretty exceptional ?
Gives me hope yet hahahaha
I would say that 9+ years is exceptional, I'm sure she has had a long and exciting career.

Haha ha! Cass you might notice that Treva had 3 other champioships made over the last 9 yrs, NAFC FC AFC CFC Expressway's Retrievin' Fool - Treva
She has had a long career in the trial game I be doubting that Montler sat around waiting for her to mature.

The National Open Champs begin Nov 19. Out west in Oregon I believed 89 dogs are entered.

LOL Yes I saw that, just being hopeful. Actually I have been thinking going forward I may invest more time in hunt tests next year. With the amount that I work and my family, it isn't easy for me to travel enough to trial. I will run the ones close to me, but I think I may be better off using hunt tests to better myself as a trainer/handler.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:44 pm

Hope everyone's season has been going well. I haven't been online much as I've been swamped at work and my spare time is spent either getting my daughter to her figure skating engagements or hunting. Mainly geese so far this season, been out for grouse a few times and while the dog has been putting on quite a show, he hasn't got much of a partner to make the shot. Here's a couple shots from last Saturday... 9 geese - Jake retrieved all but 2 (which landed beside us and didn't require a retrieve). Even being the smallest "retriever", he was the only one that would actually retrieve a goose. He put on a clinic for the other 2 dogs. Hoping to get out for some more grouse though, only a month left of the season and I haven't shot a single one yet.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:51 pm

You should be very proud of that dog and your success in training Nick.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:36 am

CDN_Cocker wrote: putting on quite a show, he hasn't got much of a partner to make the shot. Here's a couple shots from last Saturday... 9 geese - Jake retrieved all but 2 (which landed beside us and didn't require a retrieve). Even being the smallest "retriever", he was the only one that would actually retrieve a goose. He put on a clinic for the other 2 dogs. Hoping to get out for some more grouse though, only a month left of the season and I haven't shot a single one yet.

That just great Cass, Nice pics of Jake and the birds. Nice to see Jake getting some hunting time in!
One question why would someone bring their dog Goose hunting if they would not retrieve geese? Do they really believe that Jake is going to teach their dog how it is done. Dogs should be trained before they are asked to do the work. Really unfair to expect a Lab and a Toller to retrieve under those conditions without proper training!
Remember shooters are not born they are made! There is a process that people that want to become efficient shots go through..
The gun I'm holding in my avatar, I have pull the trigger at least 250,000 times. And that is the difference between a winner and whiner!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:20 am

gundogguy wrote:
That just great Cass, Nice pics of Jake and the birds. Nice to see Jake getting some hunting time in!
One question why would someone bring their dog Goose hunting if they would not retrieve geese? Do they really believe that Jake is going to teach their dog how it is done. Dogs should be trained before they are asked to do the work. Really unfair to expect a Lab and a Toller to retrieve under those conditions without proper training!
Remember shooters are not born they are made! There is a process that people that want to become efficient shots go through..
The gun I'm holding in my avatar, I have pull the trigger at least 250,000 times. And that is the difference between a winner and whiner!

Yes I said this as well in regards to expecting retrieves from a dog not properly trained. Fell on deaf ears though I believe. As for the shooting - if I ever get the chance to come down to Michigan I think you could teach me lots about both shooting and dog training. Maybe that could happen some day!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:55 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
That just great Cass, Nice pics of Jake and the birds. Nice to see Jake getting some hunting time in!
One question why would someone bring their dog Goose hunting if they would not retrieve geese? Do they really believe that Jake is going to teach their dog how it is done. Dogs should be trained before they are asked to do the work. Really unfair to expect a Lab and a Toller to retrieve under those conditions without proper training!
Remember shooters are not born they are made! There is a process that people that want to become efficient shots go through..
The gun I'm holding in my avatar, I have pull the trigger at least 250,000 times. And that is the difference between a winner and whiner!
Yes I said this as well in regards to expecting retrieves from a dog not properly trained. Fell on deaf ears though I believe. As for the shooting - if I ever get the chance to come down to Michigan I think you could teach me lots about both shooting and dog training. Maybe that could happen some day!

Two part post.
My imagination runs wild when I think of 3 dogs working together on a Goose shoot. Jake is line steady and normally would not need to be restrained are other two dogs tied up. Or are they each given a chance to work and then Jake is released to clean-up. I trust all 3 are not allowed to run in to the mark at the same time. Please explain how a day in the goose fields works. I'm sure Crack,Polmaise and Trekmore would want to hear as well.
Shooting school is opened during the summer months.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:49 pm

Honestly I take it as an opportunity to proof Jake. They make attempts with their dogs (which are restrained until allowed to go) and then if they go and won't pick up, they're called back (if they haven't already gave up and ran back) and then I send Jake. I would not consider myself a goose hunter and to be honest, I don't even shoot that often when we're out - my focus is on Jake and ensuring he is steady. Kind of ironic that I'm the most focused on my dog when he's the only trained one lol. But I see it mainly as a training opportunity so that's how I use it.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:01 pm

It's not ironic or a coincidence Cass. He's the most well trained of the 3 because you do pay attention!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:07 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Honestly I take it as an opportunity to proof Jake. They make attempts with their dogs (which are restrained until allowed to go) and then if they go and won't pick up, they're called back (if they haven't already gave up and ran back) and then I send Jake. I would not consider myself a goose hunter and to be honest, I don't even shoot that often when we're out - my focus is on Jake and ensuring he is steady. Kind of ironic that I'm the most focused on my dog when he's the only trained one lol. But I see it mainly as a training opportunity so that's how I use it.

Good for you! Glad to hear your having fun with Jake. You might remind your mates with the non-retrieving retriever breeds that are taking a dog hunting that does not understand it job the way Jake does. They are being successful at teaching and training their dogs to be failures as retrievers.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:43 pm

Yeah he's an easy one to have fun with, he's been a pretty forgiving pupil.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:29 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Honestly I take it as an opportunity to proof Jake. They make attempts with their dogs (which are restrained until allowed to go) and then if they go and won't pick up, they're called back (if they haven't already gave up and ran back) and then I send Jake. I would not consider myself a goose hunter and to be honest, I don't even shoot that often when we're out - my focus is on Jake and ensuring he is steady. Kind of ironic that I'm the most focused on my dog when he's the only trained one lol. But I see it mainly as a training opportunity so that's how I use it.

Cocker's are good to show the labs where to look /mark

. But we both know that's not true

Training one to do it ?..well that's a different ball game

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:54 pm

I absolutely love that picture Robert!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:24 pm

Mine too

..If only you knew the company we were in