The Spaniel Spot

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:18 pm

crackerd wrote: I agree with gundogguy as usual that test scores are irrelevant, it's pass/fail and any other "scoring" should be in your own head as handler on how your dog performed and what weaknesses you may need to work on going forward. Or, the way HTs work now and with the soccer-medal-for-everybody mentality, alas, how fast you can get that next rosette out of the judges' hands to add to your collection...

MG

Yes it does seem like it is up to the novice handler to fill in the blanks, i.e." scoring should be in your own head as handler". I still believe from a novice perspective (which I am) that some kind of input would nice from those with more experience.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:18 am

Do the judges themselves get any "training" prior to judging tests and trials in America ? It used to be the case here that for judging tests beginner judges were just chucked in at the deep end and left to sink or swim. If you sank you were unlikely to be asked to judge again !
Trials were a bit different because the results of trials mattered more. Beginner judges in trials were quietly and usually diplomatically supervised.

In Britain we now have trial judging "exams" ..... I never took these exams. I judged before they'd been introduced.

Bill T.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:13 am

Trekmoor wrote:Do the judges themselves get any "training" prior to judging tests and trials in America ? It used to be the case here that for judging tests beginner judges were just chucked in at the deep end and left to sink or swim. If you sank you were unlikely to be asked to judge again !
Trials were a bit different because the results of trials mattered more. Beginner judges in trials were quietly and usually diplomatically supervised.

In Britain we now have trial judging "exams" ..... I never took these exams. I judged before they'd been introduced.

Bill T.

Similar process here as well,especially the sink or swim part.At the present time there is Judging Seminar held by the various clubs across the US. One has to attend these day long class room sessions to be consider for judging assignments. One must also renew this process every 5 years. I too had judged tests prior to this program. After many years I attended a seminar since that time I have refused to accept any test judging assignments. Personally, IMHO tests are just an exercise in mediocrity. I always though "Gee I could have home training some really talented dogs". If a handler wants to improve their skills in running a dog you need to search out the best people in your area, train with them, compete in trial against them and gain real growth as dog or Spaniel person. When you associate with the best you get better or get out.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:07 am

gundogguy, does the mandatory attendance at a seminar also apply for spaniel field trial judging? I know I've taken the judging seminar for retriever HTs, but my snide remark about "anybody can" judge at retriever FTs was prompted by the credentialing of FT judges being so "loosey-goosey." In other words, anybody can do it (judge) if they've got a copy of the FT rulebook with them and have previously borne witness to a retriever picking a bird...Well, almost. (And certainly no offence meant, Robt.

)

MG

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:35 am

I'd judged retriever and HPR trials when the HPR folk decided that future judges and those of us who had only judged maybe half a dozen trials should "Carry a book." This entailed walking along with the "proper" judges but marking the dogs in the pages of a separate book. The book was examined at the trials end by the "A" Panel judge and his/her opinions of it were forwarded to the K.C. Once a book had been satisfactorily completed at several trials the apprentice judge then became a judge .

This meant I had to take days off work to travel to trials at my own expense and yet my opinions made no difference to the results of the trials. I wasn't pleased about this but was given a book to carry at a trial where an "A" Panel judge I considered to be a bit of a dud was judging. To be polite about it he couldn't have trained a goldfish to swim around a bowl.

Anyway I followed the trial all day and filled in my "book." The "A" Panel judge went into ecstasies about a contestants afternoon run. In his opinion it was a winning performance. He asked me how I'd marked that dogs run and I replied that I hadn't marked it . The judge was angry about this and wanted to know why I'd failed to mark my book. I replied that I hadn't marked that run because I'd eliminated the dog during it's morning run !

I was told by him that I could not do that and I said that I blurry well could because it was my book not his !

Me and that judge never did get on very well.......he had all of the theory off pat but not much of the practice. The end result of my book marking was however that his report to the K.C. was not complimentary and I never judged another HPR trial.
The judges always get the last word.

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:07 pm

Often the 'Show' folk get a pasting from 'Field' folk regarding the standard that wins regularly.
There is a standard set by the 'Breed standard' in the UK and the US kennel clubs and Judges should judge to that standard.
It is the same with 'Field' Trials and 'working tests' where the standard is judged.

What influences the future lines with the masses is the responsibility and ownership of the judges who give awards and folk will either breed or train to those achievements being awarded.
Pity 'we' in the UK don't have an Ombudsman or Monopoly commission within the 'Industry' .There is ONLY the Kennel Club.
Do you guys have such that could adjudicate judges decisions or awards ?

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:13 pm

crackerd wrote:gundogguy, does the mandatory attendance at a seminar also apply for spaniel field trial judging? I know I've taken the judging seminar for retriever HTs, but my snide remark about "anybody can" judge at retriever FTs was prompted by the credentialing of FT judges being so "loosey-goosey." In other words, anybody can do it (judge) if they've got a copy of the FT rulebook with them and have previously borne witness to a retriever picking a bird...Well, almost. (And certainly no offence meant, Robt. )

MG

The trial game has a bit of a different process. There are workshops that that include class room and then off to the field for live action situations and discussions. Then there is an apprentice program that some one that is interested in judging trials has to take part in. It like any thing is not perfect but it is better than what was done years ago. Bottom line is that an individual needs to train with a group that is highly active and promotes the breed and trial program. All positive things come from the strong associations built from training groups. Which, though not always are associated with the various clubs holding trials. Because of the subjective nature of judging trials the process is probable about as good as it gets If trials were scored objectively then all you would need is a score keeper.

Trekmoor wrote:I'd judged retriever and HPR trials when the HPR folk decided that future judges and those of us who had only judged maybe half a dozen trials should "Carry a book." This entailed walking along with the "proper" judges but marking the dogs in the pages of a separate book. The book was examined at the trials end by the "A" Panel judge and his/her opinions of it were forwarded to the K.C. Once a book had been satisfactorily completed at several trials the apprentice judge then became a judge .

This meant I had to take days off work to travel to trials at my own expense and yet my opinions made no difference to the results of the trials. I wasn't pleased about this but was given a book to carry at a trial where an "A" Panel judge I considered to be a bit of a dud was judging. To be polite about it he couldn't have trained a goldfish to swim around a bowl.

Anyway I followed the trial all day and filled in my "book." The "A" Panel judge went into ecstasies about a contestants afternoon run. In his opinion it was a winning performance. He asked me how I'd marked that dogs run and I replied that I hadn't marked it . The judge was angry about this and wanted to know why I'd failed to mark my book. I replied that I hadn't marked that run because I'd eliminated the dog during it's morning run !
I was told by him that I could not do that and I said that I blurry well could because it was my book not his !

Me and that judge never did get on very well.......he had all of the theory off pat but not much of the practice. The end result of my book marking was however that his report to the K.C. was not complimentary and I never judged another HPR trial.
The judges always get the last word.

Bill T.

I have heard of that happening here, the dog game the world over is about the same!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:08 pm

gundogguy wrote: Because of the subjective nature of judging trials the process is probable about as good as it gets If trials were scored objectively then all you would need is a score keeper.

This little nugget here.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:55 pm

I thought you had to go through a judge apprenticeship to because a judge for hunt tests? And I believe hunt test judges have to have a dog (currently) that holds a title at the level they're judging?

But I could be wrong.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:20 am

mnaj_springer wrote: I believe hunt test judges have to have a dog (currently) that holds a title at the level they're judging?

But I could be wrong.

Your not wrong mnaj springer. It is a flushing dog hunt test, however there is a substantial percentage of folks judging that have never hunted or even shot a bird or rabbit over their spaniel or Airedale or retriever.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:36 am

Anyone gearing up to do a bit of shed hunting? I'm thinking I might take a walk this weekend if I can shake this flu I've been fighting all week.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:37 pm

crackerd wrote:gundogguy, does the mandatory attendance at a seminar also apply for spaniel field trial judging? I know I've taken the judging seminar for retriever HTs, but my snide remark about "anybody can" judge at retriever FTs was prompted by the credentialing of FT judges being so "loosey-goosey." In other words, anybody can do it (judge) if they've got a copy of the FT rulebook with them and have previously borne witness to a retriever picking a bird...Well, almost. (And certainly no offence meant, Robt. )

MG

And none taken Michael

This is a good read and pertinent to the discussion .
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/gundogs/tes ... uers-53291

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:28 pm

polmaise wrote:
crackerd wrote:gundogguy, does the mandatory attendance at a seminar also apply for spaniel field trial judging? I know I've taken the judging seminar for retriever HTs, but my snide remark about "anybody can" judge at retriever FTs was prompted by the credentialing of FT judges being so "loosey-goosey." In other words, anybody can do it (judge) if they've got a copy of the FT rulebook with them and have previously borne witness to a retriever picking a bird...Well, almost. (And certainly no offence meant, Robt. )
And none taken Michael

This is a good read and pertinent to the discussion .
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/gundogs/tes ... uers-53291

Roger that, Robt. - "Roger that" in our parlance meaning Affirmative! and not "rogering," you know, in y'all's. Excellent article in any event. Didn't address whether A Panel judges could also be professional trainers unless I somehow missed it, but I'm sure you can provide that insight.

How 'bout for US spaniel FTs, gundogguy, have pros always been allowed to judge? I was telling Robt. offline that it's not done with retrievers here and I'm not sure if it ever was.

Further on to mnaj's comment on judging a hunt test requiring that you have titled a dog at the level you're judging, my personal belief is that should be a requirement for all competitions, particularly retriever FTs. But then you would get into a morass of Did you put an FC on the dog trained by your pro?, or Did the pro put an FC on your dog that never once ran for you?, or (AFC/FC speaking) did both of you make up the FC? Such a judges pool to come from those qualifications would be untenable to say the least.

MG

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:56 pm

I prefer judges to have competed in and won a few trials themselves. As far as I know spaniel judges have always been trial winners themselves ? I think that many years ago a few (very few) retriever trial judges had not won trials but were deemed experienced enough to judge all the same ? I know for certain that one particular retriever trial judge only ever won one Novice stake.

In HPR's things were a bit different. One "A" Panel judge had never even trained a dog and yet he felt competent not only to judge trials but to tell us competitors what we were doing wrong. I had one furious argument with him when he instructed me to keep my brittany within about 50 yards when hunting her as shotguns can shoot no further than that ! :roll: I told him it wasn't a bleeping spaniel trial he was judging and we sort of kicked off from there !

The HPR trial judges were sometimes given the position on the "old school tie" system........ I never did fit in with that.

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:06 pm

crackerd wrote: Further on to mnaj's comment on judging a hunt test requiring that you have titled a dog at the level you're judging, my personal belief is that should be a requirement for all competitions, particularly retriever FTs. But then you would get into a morass of Did you put an FC on the dog trained by your pro?, or Did the pro put an FC on your dog that never once ran for you?, or (AFC/FC speaking) did both of you make up the FC? Such a judges pool to come from those qualifications would be untenable to say the least.

MG

Bureaucracy and rules and right for one and not for others reminds me of 'Of mice and men' .Mr Steinbeck had a good call on this .George Orwell also had a handle on it with 'Animal Farm'..But hey ' alas ...the masses run with what gives the product no matter who or how those rosettes are either given or achieved .

The pc folk will applaud the ones with righteous accreditation. ..as long as it suits them.
I suppose the best is the one that bred it ,trained it,handled it,won it .Judged by nobody who knows it ?

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:28 am

crackerd wrote:
polmaise wrote:
crackerd wrote:

This is a good read and pertinent to the discussion .
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/gundogs/tes ... uers-53291

How 'bout for US spaniel FTs, gundogguy, have pros always been allowed to judge? I was telling Robt. offline that it's not done with retrievers here and I'm not sure if it ever was.

Further on to mnaj's comment on judging a hunt test requiring that you have titled a dog at the level you're judging, my personal belief is that should be a requirement for all competitions, particularly retriever FTs. But then you would get into a morass of Did you put an FC on the dog trained by your pro?, or Did the pro put an FC on your dog that never once ran for you?, or (AFC/FC speaking) did both of you make up the FC? Such a judges pool to come from those qualifications would be untenable to say the least.

MG

As far as I know Pros have in the Spaniel world have always been asked and/or invited to judge trials. I do realize that it is not a practice in the retriever trials for Pros to be involved in judging. I have always assumed it was because of the size of the two different communities. Much greater numbers in the Retriever trial game. However the reason may go much deeper than that.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:52 am

Oh, yeah. ... Much deeper. Supply and demands (plural) on the pro, potential conflict of interest (judging your clients and your clients' dogs and judging your adversary's client and your adversary's client dogs, etc.) and paycheck of course (for training [or not training or running client dogs while you're away judging], but not a paycheck for judging in its own right, since, as you know, all assignments are voluntary).

Would take a seismic shift for the retriever world to get pros in the judging rotation, probably never to happen despite some of us amateurs who are rootin'-tootin' over the idea.

MG

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:11 am

Got the dogs out for some exercise today. Out less than an hour and Jake flushed 2 grouse and made a nice find!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:07 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Got the dogs out for some exercise today. Out less than an hour and Jake flushed 2 grouse and made a nice find!

That's amazing. I help many dog owners break their dogs of chasing trash, and was well rewarded for my efforts. And your out there encouraging it. :roll: Wow!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:42 pm

Lol no chasing involved. Only retrieving. Was hoping we might see a woodcock or 2 back but no luck just grouse.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:36 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Lol no chasing involved. Only retrieving. Was hoping we might see a woodcock or 2 back but no luck just grouse.

Is your shooting season on game still on ?

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:41 pm

No. Rabbit is open but I don't hunt rabbit often.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:10 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:No. Rabbit is open but I don't hunt rabbit often.

You should try it

sure does get the gears up ,and also separates the flushers from the chasers .
Bolting rabbits with ferrets also sharpens the shooting

If you have access to them.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:43 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Lol no chasing involved. Only retrieving. Was hoping we might see a woodcock or 2 back but no luck just grouse.

Did you give your dog a little pat on the head for finding the shedd. That is the encouragement i'm talking about. It's your dog run it any way you like, but I would never encourage one to hunt deer. Makes no sense, besides those horns just do not cook up very good!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:44 pm

Yes I did, it's taken me quite a bit to get him to search out sheds. He won't chase deer though, we've jumped many while bird hunting and he doesn't even blink - he doesn't make the connection. I would never encourage him running deer, just like I don't allow chasing squirrels, etc. But I am perfectly fine with him picking up sheds in the off season as it is something I enjoy myself. He still prefers flushing ruffies though lol. We expect them to find and flush all different sorts of upland birds, rabbits and waterfowl... picking up a shed or bumper is just one more thing on the list.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:09 am

Here's a discussion for everyone. Training on wild birds vs pigeons/chukars/pheasants. This winter, although we haven't had much snow and it hasn't dampened training much, I just have not had time to pick up pigeons. I really only have 1 or 2 days a week that I can get the dog out for a good run and I want to be able to just get out there and go, rather than go get pigeons and then go. I have not been training with my normal club either as its a 3 hour drive and the reports have been that the cover hasn't been great there as they have had a fair amount of snow off and on so I have opted not to to waste my time driving 3 hours there and 3 hours back for 1 or 2 runs down the field. So, I have been working on wild birds. Obviously I cannot predict where they are and if we go out for an hour he may only make 2 contacts but with work and everything else going on, my main priority is just getting him out for a run. What I do though since I haven't been buying pigeons is that I carry my blank gun with me and when he flushes a grouse (no woodcock back yet!) I fire off the pistol and make sure he is steady, then we move on. Anyone else train on wild birds like this? Obviously planting pigeons/chukars/pheasants is more ideal for preparing for tests and trials but I feel that using wild birds keeps his nose sharp and requires minimal setup time. We were out yesterday and had 2 flushes, and he was solid on both. Just about to head out here again for a bit since I have some time this morning. I may get him out again next weekend but if so that'll be the last. I generally figure the birds start nesting around the first of April so don't want to disturb that. We'll be back to pigeons and polishing.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:31 pm

Sure Cass hunting dogs and gun dogs have been develop this way for many years. Whats the harm most of the companion spaniel dog culture in N.America does it just the way you describe. And with a little luck your lil black dog is bound to bring back some shedds

Great fun for you and Jake!
Now if your are asking about a Field Trial spaniel training, the game demands way more precision than what can be developed on a couple of wild bird contacts per weekend walk about!
Hie-On!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:38 pm

Probably some over here have built a 'Rabbit Pen' ,...Now that doesn't necessarily always have rabbits in it . Never been a great fan of using them on a regular basis ,but it's one way to guarantee a contact flush.

Fortunately I have a 40 acre Rabbit pen at the back door. The serious 'top' trial'ers travel many miles for the right ground at the right time of year.
Again, I am fortunate that around March the estates that have reared pheasant shooting and also 'catch up' birds after the shooting has finished at end of January for the purpose of 'laying hens' they also catch the Cock birds in them catchers ' which have no value and are always killed. Well , I collect them and release them on my 40 acre rabbit pen, and continue to 'hunt/flush' well into May/June . ..Cock birds don't nest

.July,is 'counting season' for the Grouse so 'flush a plenty' , and right back in the saddle come August for the real thing

.
I'm sure even the novice at games with intent to reach the top level can do it with much imagination and ingenuity.....and desire.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:41 pm

Big news for the spaniel spot. Congratulations to springerdude and his Josie dog for getting her AFC! Tell us all about it Tim!!!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:15 am

Thanks Robert, rabbit pens just do not get any respect here in N. America..

Shoutout to springerdude, kudo's to Josie I can still visualize Josie"s Granddam FC PIE tearing thee the fields up, in Texas and Oklahoma

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:46 am

Congratulations to springerdude and Josie....awesome job!

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:46 pm

Some spaniel pics from another forum that I thought you guys might enjoy.

http://www.thefieldtrialer.com/forum/vi ... =12&t=6371

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:45 pm

Sharon wrote:Some spaniel pics from another forum that I thought you guys might enjoy.

http://www.thefieldtrialer.com/forum/vi ... =12&t=6371

Good looking pup. Photo quality is phenomenal.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:17 pm

Sharon wrote:Some spaniel pics from another forum that I thought you guys might enjoy.

http://www.thefieldtrialer.com/forum/vi ... =12&t=6371

Great quality pics Sharon ,Thanks for sharing.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:11 pm

I noticed this on another forum and thought some of you might like to see these little films.

http://www.whaupleygundogs.co.uk/index.php?id=51

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:36 pm

The pics were fantastic Sharon! ..whenever someone starts adding links to some one else though ,I get hairs on the back of my neck . Thinking they are promoting ?..Not in your case however as they are just fantastic pictures ,no one could disagree ??..

When it'[s open season for promotion ' I like this one'

...No great pics and no great clips . Just good dogs . As seen ..?
http://stronggundogs.com/

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:52 pm

No promotion. That forum has no shortage of business; I just thought you guys would enjoy them. Totally sincere.

Enjoyed those clips Trekmoor . Thanks.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:17 pm

The photos Sharon posted are just from another forum. She posted a thread from field trialer but it was also on upland journal. This is not promoting anything. It is someone who owns a dog they are proud of.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:52 pm

Like This

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:20 pm

New article from Gun Dog Mag.... perhaps crackerd may find this of some interest.... http://www.gundogmag.com/breeds/breed-p ... x-spaniel/

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:19 pm

Zeta has now made FC Wins the Open at Valley Forge. Her third Bluin the last 18months. Glamour shots to follow.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:59 am

Way to go Zeta!!!!!!!!! Awesome news Hal! Got your sights set on the National now????

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:28 am

Well done.

You must be chuffed to bits !

Bill T.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:46 am

Trekmoor wrote:Well done. You must be chuffed to bits !

Bill T.

Bill you are correct about that. We use a saying around our house.
"All they can bea" Making Champ is really nothing more than committment to the dog. And of course developing the god given talent the little fur ball possesses. Our commitment is complete every thing from here on out is just graveHer win was at Valley Forge, she will run in Sussquehanna thi week Friday and after that I not sure of the schedule.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:54 pm

Hal, you're going to have to give us more to go on than that. Where's our recap of the event?

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:09 pm

That is quite a accomplishment....congratulations!!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:04 pm

gundogguy wrote:And of course developing the god given talent the little fur ball possesses.

Congratulations , and of course You should be proud !
There are many that have been blessed with an 8 week old 100% perfect and just screwed it up every day until it was a wash out

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:47 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Hal, you're going to have to give us more to go on than that. Where's our recap of the event?

Ok cass here is the recap
Zeta found,em flush,em mark,em retrieve,em better than any of the other dogs entered on Saturday in Valley Forge Pa. And the judges panel made her thier best dog in trial.couple of videos in my signature for any one that wants see FC Zeta run as a young AA trial prospect. Sorry no trial video cover in PA 5,6 feet tall really tough stuff real Spaniel cover.

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:27 pm

After going to a springer trial this weekend where much of the cover was 5 to 6 feet like it seems was the case for Zeta I have a new appreciation for dogs that can work this type of cover....truly takes a dog with lots of push.
Could not get a decent photo of a dog in this cover but here is a photo of one of the gunners.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:49 am

Cover that high is a bit of a nightmare for everyone. The handlers cannot see the dogs and neither can the judges. A very experienced field trialing lady was competing in the first spaniel trial I ever saw. Her bitch was given a hunt through waist high, very densely growing kale. Her dog found nothing but was kept in the trial. I asked the lady how she knew where her dog was in the kale in order to handle it. She told me she hadn't seen her dog during her entire run so she'd just whistled and wiggled her arms about occasionally to make things look good to the judges ! When her dog did appear just in front of her as the kale field ended she behaved as if she'd known the dog's whereabouts the whole time.

Bill T.