The Spaniel Spot

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:40 pm

Congratulations!

gundogguy wrote:ESS of Long island trial October 4
Our Zeta dog wins Open AA She is the dog in in the foreground! Her 2nd placement in the last 3 weeks!
and big weekend for Mike Wallace and Salmy kennels as he also runs the 4th place dog FC Badger and wins the Puppie stake with Junior.
couple more weeks of trialing and the Zeta girl will be home for some pheasant hunting

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:26 pm

polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote:ESS of Long island trial October 4
Our Zeta dog wins Open AA She is the dog in in the foreground! Her 2nd placement in the last 3 weeks!
and big weekend for Mike Wallace and Salmy kennels as he also runs the 4th place dog FC Badger and wins the Puppie stake with Junior.
couple more weeks of trialing and the Zeta girl will be home for some pheasant hunting
Congratulations .
Any video's of those Blue ribbon runs?
(Nice markings on them springers btw )

Thanks Polmaise and Sharon.

Sadly no. We are light years behind the UK when it comes to videography of spaniel trials.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:40 pm

Way to go Hal and Zeta!!!!!!

marysburg · Post by **marysburg** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:37 pm

Congratulations, you must be so proud of her, and she is a real beauty. Where did you get her?

welsh · Post by **welsh** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:14 pm

Congratulations!

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:20 pm

Congrats!

IronRangeECS · Post by **IronRangeECS** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:27 am

Hi spaniel folks! I'm new to the forum, and I have some questions. I have a 1 1/2 old English Cocker. she is a Birdy pocket sized rocket of a dog who has been a treat to train. I purchased her September 1st of last year at 8 weeks old. I introduced her to dead birds the following weekend. by 12 weeks old I had her doing very short retrieves on woodcocks and small grouse donated by friends. these birds i froze and the lasted us into the middle of winter. because of financial and housing issues Dixie has only had the opportunity to retrieve birds a few time this summer. two quail from my parents coop and one of their guinea fowl she tackled while walking through the hay field. this last week. she has been introduced to gunfire, retrieves bumpers to hand and does a good job with hand signals. But a big problem has reared it's ugly head and I don't have the knowledge to draw upon in order to solve this problem. Yesterday Dixie flushed her first Woodcock. she did a great job on the flush. then she trotted over picked up the bird... and shredded it... Shaking it like rag doll. the bird was in pieces by the time I got to her. I did not yell at her or scold her she would not release the bird so i traded her the bird by throwing her bumper. (which was retrieved almost perfectly, like we had practiced....)

How do I stop this? My dad said get an E-collar, but most Cocker folks have told me not to use them.

So now I'm here.....

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:56 pm

IronRangeECS wrote:Hi spaniel folks! I'm new to the forum, and I have some questions. I have a 1 1/2 old English Cocker. she is a Birdy pocket sized rocket of a dog who has been a treat to train. I purchased her September 1st of last year at 8 weeks old. I introduced her to dead birds the following weekend. by 12 weeks old I had her doing very short retrieves on woodcocks and small grouse donated by friends. these birds i froze and the lasted us into the middle of winter. because of financial and housing issues Dixie has only had the opportunity to retrieve birds a few time this summer. two quail from my parents coop and one of their guinea fowl she tackled while walking through the hay field. this last week. she has been introduced to gunfire, retrieves bumpers to hand and does a good job with hand signals. But a big problem has reared it's ugly head and I don't have the knowledge to draw upon in order to solve this problem. Yesterday Dixie flushed her first Woodcock. she did a great job on the flush. then she trotted over picked up the bird... and shredded it... Shaking it like rag doll. the bird was in pieces by the time I got to her. I did not yell at her or scold her she would not release the bird so i traded her the bird by throwing her bumper. (which was retrieved almost perfectly, like we had practiced....)

How do I stop this? My dad said get an E-collar, but most Cocker folks have told me not to use them.

So now I'm here.....

1st. If you can remember your breeder, contact them and find out if this behavior is showing up in of the other littermates. THEN, If this 'hard mouth is showing up in the breeding they if they are reasonable would want to know.
2nd Quit hunting this dog on game until you finish step 3
3rd plan on giving this dog a sequential trained retrieve. Force fetch will go along way to teach this dog proper mouth behaviors. during this process quit using frozen birds, use either clean paint rollers or grip sticks.
This development will in reality take you out of training mode and put you and the dog in rehabilitation mode. By rehab I mean this The dog has an issue and it should addressed before more information is piled on. Take you time it maybe the only chance you have.
As for the sequential FF program send personal message to Evan Graham an request his "SmartWorks " retriever program. In Minnesota there are a number of qualified Spaniel trainers that you contact should contact Morgan Haglin comes to mind Bill Beokman would be another. You are going to need some hands on help with your project!
Hal

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:57 pm

gundogguy wrote:
IronRangeECS wrote:Hi spaniel folks! I'm new to the forum, and I have some questions. I have a 1 1/2 old English Cocker. she is a Birdy pocket sized rocket of a dog who has been a treat to train. I purchased her September 1st of last year at 8 weeks old. I introduced her to dead birds the following weekend. by 12 weeks old I had her doing very short retrieves on woodcocks and small grouse donated by friends. these birds i froze and the lasted us into the middle of winter. because of financial and housing issues Dixie has only had the opportunity to retrieve birds a few time this summer. two quail from my parents coop and one of their guinea fowl she tackled while walking through the hay field. this last week. she has been introduced to gunfire, retrieves bumpers to hand and does a good job with hand signals. But a big problem has reared it's ugly head and I don't have the knowledge to draw upon in order to solve this problem. Yesterday Dixie flushed her first Woodcock. she did a great job on the flush. then she trotted over picked up the bird... and shredded it... Shaking it like rag doll. the bird was in pieces by the time I got to her. I did not yell at her or scold her she would not release the bird so i traded her the bird by throwing her bumper. (which was retrieved almost perfectly, like we had practiced....)

How do I stop this? My dad said get an E-collar, but most Cocker folks have told me not to use them.

So now I'm here.....
1st. If you can remember your breeder, contact them and find out if this behavior is showing up in of the other littermates. THEN, If this 'hard mouth is showing up in the breeding they if they are reasonable would want to know.
2nd Quit hunting this dog on game until you finish step 3
3rd plan on giving this dog a sequential trained retrieve. Force fetch will go along way to teach this dog proper mouth behaviors. during this process quit using frozen birds, use either clean paint rollers or grip sticks.
4th At this time NO ECOLLAR!
This development will in reality take you out of training mode and put you and the dog in rehabilitation mode. By rehab I mean this The dog has an issue and it should addressed before more information is piled on. Take you time it maybe the only chance you have.
As for the sequential FF program send personal message to Evan Graham an request his "SmartWorks " retriever program. In Minnesota there are a number of qualified Spaniel trainers that you contact should contact Morgan Haglin comes to mind Bill Beokman would be another. You are going to need some hands on help with your project!

I will not offer FF information via the internet I have not seen your dog!
Hal

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:04 pm

IronRangeECS wrote: How do I stop this? My dad said get an E-collar, but most Cocker folks have told me not to use them.

So now I'm here.....

An e-collar is not the answer for that problem. However don't take that the wrong way. "Most cocker folks" may tell you not to use e-collars, but you'd be quite surprised at how many actually do. For some odd reason e-collars are very taboo in the spaniel world - but they are certainly not uncommon. They are a [effective] tool, just as a leash or regular collar is. Nothing more, nothing less.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:01 pm

Just a heads up for all spaniel enthusiasts who wish to compete with their dogs

This man is 91 years 'young' and was placed second at an Open competition today. It's true that the dogs do the work in the field only because all the work by the handler/trainer has been done before it enters that field

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/features/jo ... pion-10256

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:08 pm

Bravo to the young man, Robt.! (Not Bill T. is it? - please tell more about the geezer, er, gentleman. Gotta be the A. Nelson Sills of international spanieldom! and you know that Nelson at whatever his age is the epitome of a field trial competitor.) So let's hear all about it, mate, from the elder end of spaniel trialing success!

MG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:15 pm

crackerd wrote:Bravo to the young man, Robt.! (Not Bill T. is it? - please tell more about the geezer, er, gentleman. Gotta be the A. Nelson Sills of international spanieldom! and you know that Nelson at whatever his age is the epitome of a field trial competitor.) So let's hear all about it, mate, from the elder end of spaniel trialing success!

MG

Many couldn't lace his boots

The link and testament says it all .

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:41 am

polmaise wrote:
crackerd wrote:Bravo to the young man, Robt.! (Not Bill T. is it? - please tell more about the geezer, er, gentleman. Gotta be the A. Nelson Sills of international spanieldom! and you know that Nelson at whatever his age is the epitome of a field trial competitor.) So let's hear all about it, mate, from the elder end of spaniel trialing success!

MG
Many couldn't lace his boots
The link and testament says it all .

Thanks for sharing Polmaise, Prolly very few dogs could carry 'his" dogs lunch pail as well

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:51 am

gundogguy wrote:
polmaise wrote: Many couldn't lace his boots
The link and testament says it all .
Thanks for sharing Polmaise, Prolly very few dogs could carry 'his" dogs lunch pail as well

Gunddogguy, did you meet Mr. Shotton on any trips abroad or come in contact with any of the Chyknell cockers? - outstanding article (and as Robt. notes, testimony to his longevity and training [and athletics] skills). Ditto on the thanks for making it available, Robt.

MG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:47 pm

crackerd wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
polmaise wrote: Many couldn't lace his boots
The link and testament says it all .
Thanks for sharing Polmaise, Prolly very few dogs could carry 'his" dogs lunch pail as well
Gunddogguy, did you meet Mr. Shotton on any trips abroad or come in contact with any of the Chyknell cockers? - outstanding article (and as Robt. notes, testimony to his longevity and training [and athletics] skills). Ditto on the thanks for making it available, Robt.

MG

Never did meet Mr.Shotton on my trips to the UK Or other Cocker folks for that matter.
The 5 trips were spent scouting for Springer talent, and became very familiar with the Saighton blood lines the Winmillwood and the Flint Mountain dogs.
Talbot Radcliff, Allen Gwinn and Eddie Griffens were marvelous folks

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:01 pm

Just a little brag... Went for a little walk on some public land with my pup, she flushed 5 pheasant and we bagged one rooster, her first wild pheasant!

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:11 am

That is great! Any pics?

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:40 am

I do have a pic, but I am having trouble uploading pics on here... It always says the image is invalid.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:20 am

The future of the sport has some up and coming young stars.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... dling.html

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:48 am

Polmaise! That's awesome! Kids these days need to get out and have more real experiences. That's why I do what I do.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:17 pm

Been doing some advanced work with the 'Infamous' American Cocker in preparation for his first Field trial.
The Show Ring and glitz of Crufts with coloured ribbons is not enough for this wee man.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:21 pm

Been working on his water discipline ,just in case we have an opportunity for an 'eye wipe'

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:05 pm

Great to see the little American Cocker doing real work! I could barely talk my husband into a field bred English Cocker because his memories of cockers when he was growing up was that of a useless hunting dog. He now gives the little field bred cockers his respect but still looks down on the American Cockers.....I need to show him these photos

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:16 pm

Show him this Chrokeva.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPAfE-VolK0

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:34 pm

Just beautiful.....I will definitely be showing him this video!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:53 am

AM Cocker JR. Hunter "Keeper"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KmJnUuG3tg

This clip was after the steadying process!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ummIHazlaaI

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:41 pm

Wow so there is more than 1 working American Cocker? Seriously it is great to see

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:48 am

1 in the UK and 1 here in states.

I personally would not get all in on American Cockers. Over the last 25 yrs I have only worked with 3.

I have yet to train one that the owner was committed to the process. Showing, agility was way more important to them than field work!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:48 am

Sadly ,I agree with Gundooguy.

The owner of the one I have been involved however may be one of the exceptions , who already achieved 'Show' Success with this wee guy and then got the 'real bug' for Gun dog work.

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:59 pm

Yeah can't really see myself ever owning a American Cocker as I very much prefer the looks and style of the field bred English Cocker. I figure if I end up with another dog at some point in the future it will be a Springer

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:57 pm

Me too!
Far too much of a challenge for most to train and complete a breed in the field that has been bred not to.
..........
Meet 'Paws' !...He is a scream

He is the Collie in the centre of this stuff .

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Think I saw that collie in "Challenge to Lassie" today on TCM, Robt., with Donald Crisp playing Polmaise of the Parsonage up thar' in Auld Reekie. Ask Gundogguy about the fieldie he's worked with - get one of these unsung or "under-purposed" spaniels that's got it, and gets after it, and nothing's more gratifying.

MG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:28 pm

Be the wrong 'guy' to ask ! ..MG
He most likely done it!....

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:44 am

I have only seen one American Cocker and that is the one Robert (polmaise) posted about. I liked that wee dog !

My only venture into spaniel breeds other than springers and cockers was with the two Clumber spaniels I trained but both of them came from Britain's rather scarce working clumber lines. The first one I trained was just about O.K. if you didn't mind her rather laid back attitude ....she eventually became just a family pet. The second one was and is a very different kettle of fish. He now works on rough shoots and on big driven shoots as a beating dog and is also a good "picking- up" dog ....he retrieves at some driven shoots and draws his owner quite a lot of favourable comments. I'm told his steadiness to fall leaves quite a bit to be desired but that is just about his only fault.
With the "right" mental attitude from a dog a lot can be achieved even if the dog is from one of the "other" spaniel breeds. From what I have seen the other breeds cannot compete with springers or cockers if you want to win trials . They just do not "go" hard enough or fast enough ....but I still like seeing them work.

Bill T.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:29 am

Bill,

Do either of the American spaniel breeds get used as beaters and/or pick up dogs on driven hunts there?

I'm just curious.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:52 am

I think Gumbo the American cocker has been to a driven shoot as a beaters dog . He is the only American breed of spaniel I have ever seen anywhere.

At one time I fancied getting a Boykin but the costs were prohibitive since , as far as I knew then, there were none in Britain. Since then I have discovered that one man in England has , or did have, a boykin or two that he worked but how well it or they worked I have no idea.

I think I'd take a chance on a boykin long before I'd take a chance on an American cocker , the boykin spaniel has a very recent work background and maybe has a larger working gene pool than the American cocker.

So far I have seen springers, cockers, clumbers, one Welsh springer and one Irish Water Spaniel at shoots here. The Welshie was dead slow and stop and did not like cover and the I.W.S. was dafter than a tuppeny watch ! I have seen a few show bred cockers and show bred springers taken to shoots but I was not terribly impressed ....to put it mildly ! One of those springers was the first "gundog" I ever bought and as they say here, I was , " seen coming !" He was show strain but back then I didn't know the difference ! He was a big lumbering sort of dog that weighed 55 lbs. of bone and muscle at just 10 months old. He was difficult to train and I eventually sold him on to an owner who expected much less from a spaniel than I do !

Bill T.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:18 am

Thanks Bill! The culture around driven hunts has always intrigued me. I think it's because it differs so greatly from the way I hunt: just me and my dog, walking hours for a few birds on public land. That being said, it's fun to hear about these driven hunts.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:36 am

Yes there is a big difference between hunting a dog in a beating line on a driven shoot and simply going hunting. The driven shoots woods and fields are likely to be stuffed full of pheasants which causes not too keen dogs to look a bit better as they hunt but which causes the very keen dogs to go a bit haywire unless you keep a very close eye on them !

I was out on a rough shoot last Saturday (walked bloomin' miles !) and my Brittany had 4 pheasants and one snipe to retrieve for all of her hunting. I walked for about 6 hours without a break and was exhausted by the end of the day .....but I felt she had deserved those birds although she could have achieved the same numbers of birds in less than 10 minutes at a driven shoot.

Driven shoots are primarily there to give men with a lot more money than I have plenty of birds to shoot without having to do much walking or any hunting. The dogs, whether they are beaters dogs or pickers-up dogs are secondary to the shooting.

Bill T.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:59 am

Trekmoor wrote:I have only seen one American Cocker and that is the one Robert (polmaise) posted about. I liked that wee dog !

My only venture into spaniel breeds other than springers and cockers was with the two Clumber spaniels I trained but both of them came from Britain's rather scarce working clumber lines. The first one I trained was just about O.K. if you didn't mind her rather laid back attitude ....she eventually became just a family pet. The second one was and is a very different kettle of fish. He now works on rough shoots and on big driven shoots as a beating dog and is also a good "picking- up" dog ....he retrieves at some driven shoots and draws his owner quite a lot of favourable comments. I'm told his steadiness to fall leaves quite a bit to be desired but that is just about his only fault.
With the "right" mental attitude from a dog a lot can be achieved even if the dog is from one of the "other" spaniel breeds. From what I have seen the other breeds cannot compete with springers or cockers if you want to win trials . They just do not "go" hard enough or fast enough ....but I still like seeing them work.

Bill T.

I have worked with a few more than two Clumbers, say 8. And about half of them had some drive one could work with and other half did not.
Like Trekmore I always enjoyed watching them, but knew they did not have enough "go"
As I have seen over the last 20 years or so It really is not a dog thing it is more of a people thing. The minority spaniel breeds, meaning all of the different varieties other than what is known as Field bred Springer's and English Cockers, are owned in large part by folks that just do not understand the Country Sports. and will never be involved in the Sporting life other than buying their field clothing at Cabelas You know what I mean the "pumpkin brigade"

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:25 pm

I have never been to one but we do, in Britain, have what I think are called "minority breed trials" for the "other spaniel" breeds. The winners of those trials get a bit hot under the collar if you even suggest that they are not the equal of the trials for springers and cockers.

As far as I am aware one clumber spaniel has gained a place in what I would call a proper trial where springers and cockers compete on equal terms against each other. No other spaniel breed has managed even a Certificate of Merit. Two of my cockers were bred by a field trial judge, he warned me after judging a trial for the "other" spaniel breeds not to expect too much from the clumber I was about to train.

The "minority" retriever breeds here don't do too well in trials either. I have judged in a Novice trial where a Flatcoat gained an award ....and deserved it too but our retriever trials are dominated by labs and to a lesser extent by Golden Retrievers. I've seen and still see an occasional Curly Coat or Chesapeake in training for field trials but they never seem to make the grade.... too slow and not good enough when they need to be handled seems to be the usual problems. I was very disappointed never to see a really good Chesapeake as I once wanted to give one a try . The breed just does not seem suitable for trialing, not the ones I see anyway.

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:12 pm

Since this is the Spaniel spot,
If it's Clumbers who have merit then this one deserves it. So does the guy who done his trade just down the road from Bill T's House .
Flintwood Snowflake Macgiriaght is the only bitch in living memory to have won two field trials. She has also won an Open Gundog Working Test. She has been awarded the KC Working Gundog Certificate and Won the Marsh trophy at Crufts 2008 in the Gamekeepers Ring for "Best Sporting Spaniel Bitch" against 27 other bitches!!
.........
Chesapeake's are not often seen at UK field trials as they are probably in the water

...where they should be ! and more often should the UK Labrador retriever in a field trial.(but that's another story).
........
Flat coats and Curly coats were more common in the early 1900's but that's way before mine or anyone else's and probably never to be seen again since the dominance of the Labrador retriever and the versatility of the breed for competition.
........
Cocker's were even a more rarity in the shooting field as recent as 20 years ago as I recall !...Hard pushed to see one at a shooting peg or the picking up team let alone compete with an English Springer Spaniel in competition.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:18 pm

I saw my first ever work bred cocker just over 30 years ago and can remember thinking ...."So that's what they look like !" They have gone from almost total obscurity to being one of Britain's most popular gundogs. They deserve to be too, they just love to work.
I can't remember seeing many at shoots until about 12 years ago. I now see them as beaters dogs, as picking - up dogs and even as peg-dogs.

They are the only breed of spaniel that often gives the springers a hard time in trials.

Bill T.

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:43 pm

Bill....did they love to work 30 years ago also?
I am curious if breeding over the past 30 years has brought them where they are today or if they were the same dog 30 years ago.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:21 pm

I don't really know the answer to that question . I saw a few cockers back then but did not see them actually working. I was deeply into labs back then so if cockers were at a driven shoot I attended , they would be beating all day and I would be picking up all day . We'd have been unlikely to see each other. I think a few of the cockers back then were showing great promise and one or two of them were giving the springers trouble in trials .

Since then cocker fanciers of considerable ability seemed to pop up out of the woodwork all over the place ! Those people made sure that the gains made by the previous breeders were not lost and that the cockers abilities continued to improve while managing to breed out some of the cockers earlier less endearing habits , like their one-time reputation of being hard to train ! They also managed to (partially) breed out the once fairly common cocker trait of taking birds away and burying them ! One famous cocker even gained the nickname of "The Undertaker" due to his habit sometimes showing up in trials !

I read that this dog was otherwise very, very good and it is now in most pedigrees . Sorry I cannot be more helpful, I never have been much of a one for studying pedigrees ever since a friend of mine who never won a single trial gained himself the nickname of "Pedigree Pete" because he could recite dogs pedigrees back to when Methusla was a pup but couldn't train a dog to find it's dinner in a dish ! I didn't want the same reputation so I didn't study pedigrees very much !

Bill T.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:51 pm

However they got here, I'm recommending a working cocker to my younger brother. I think it'll be a good fit. He hunts grouse more than pheasant (I'm the opposite). And I hunt waterfowl and he doesn't.

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:58 am

Some really interesting stuff Bill.....especially the past reputation of being hard to train as most I have seen (mostly videos and my own pup) seem to be pretty biddable little dogs. One thing for sure is the past breeders (and current) of these little dogs did a bang up job in keeping the dogs working ethic alive. Although I believe the Springer is king of the spaniel world I hear these little Cockers being mentioned in the same sentence often

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:36 am

ESS Parent Club Trial 10/24-10/25
Our little virginal 27 month old spaniel (Zeta) wiggled he way through a crowd of artful dodgers , scaly wags and thieves to garner a Fourth Place finish at this prestigious annual affair in New York. This particular trial also demands a water test which provides some drama for all those dogs that have made it through 3 series, fail the water and your out of the trial. 39 dogs in attendance, the crème of the East coast society
This is her 2nd placement this month and 3rd over all for the Autumn schedule.

welsh · Post by **welsh** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:01 am

I missed all this chat re American Cockers, being busy hunting and all.

I know a few American Cockers from my training group and have also seen one from the States up for a hunt test. I have to say I really like them, but not as hunting dogs ... the ones I know show a lot of heart and enthusiasm but don't always have the instincts. You get a dog with a great nose that won't retrieve, or a dog that loves to retrieve but doesn't hunt well. You don't get the whole package. But with some work to bring these dogs back they could be a lot of fun.

Heard remarks this summer from folks who have been in the trialing world here for years, saying how the English Cocker has come along and improved in the past 20 years or so.

Having a Welshie as I do, I can say that some of the knocks on them are accurate. They're slower than springers ... but they should be, because not all breeds are the same and this has always been their way. But for the hunting I do, this works out. Speed avails you nothing in a woodcock covert and a dog that runs itself out in an hour is no good in the fifth hour of hunting, third day in a row. She drives me nuts all summer with the training group, as the springers run circles around her, and then by mid October I decide she's a genius. Depends on the need.

I do like English Cockers....

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:25 pm

Congratulations to Gundogguy and Zeta. Sounds like a very nice dog. I especially like the idea of a water test!