The Spaniel Spot

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:04 pm

Thanks Dude

He's a keeper thats for sure. Nothing sissy about that little cocker

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:16 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:He's a keeper thats for sure. Nothing sissy about that little cocker

A little birdie just told me the same thing about Jake, Cass, and it weren't one of these little birdies -

- moreover, my young friend, when that particular "birdie" gives Jake such a verbal attaboy, consider it worthy of framing.

MG

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:13 pm

That makes me feel good

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:39 am

At it again yesterday with krakadawn! Wind wasn't cooperating but still whacked a couple. The proof is in the pudding:

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:54 pm

Nicely done Cass! We took down another rooster on Saturday followed by a nifty "hunt dead."

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:24 pm

Here is a short clip from the Irish Spaniel Championship held yesterday !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx48-5g ... e=youtu.be

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:30 pm

Cass you and Jake are living large Nice way to spend some time with you dog!!

Polmaise what are watching there. Personally i could throw a bird across the water to the other bank, I do have a gold medal arm, and at least give the dog a proper test of land, water, land. Or is that not an expectation of spaniel water work during Championships. It did look similar of a USA Junior Hunter water test.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:35 pm

gundogguy wrote: Polmaise what are watching there. Personally i could throw a bird across the water to the other bank, I do have a gold medal arm, and at least give the dog a proper test of land, water, land. Or is that not an expectation of spaniel water work during Championships. It did look similar of a USA Junior Hunter water test.

True!...
Sorry to say

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:39 pm

polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote: Polmaise what are watching there. Personally i could throw a bird across the water to the other bank, I do have a gold medal arm, and at least give the dog a proper test of land, water, land. Or is that not an expectation of spaniel water work during Championships. It did look similar of a USA Junior Hunter water test.
True!...

Sorry to say

You are up late in Scotland waiting for St. Nick no doubt! Merry Christmas my friend!

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:11 am

gundogguy wrote:
polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote: Polmaise what are watching there. Personally i could throw a bird across the water to the other bank, I do have a gold medal arm, and at least give the dog a proper test of land, water, land. Or is that not an expectation of spaniel water work during Championships. It did look similar of a USA Junior Hunter water test.
True!...

Sorry to say
You are up late in Scotland waiting for St. Nick no doubt! Merry Christmas my friend!

Gundogguy, an amplification of Robt.'s nocturnal restlessness - he was up late in Scotland no doubt in great dismay at what passes for spaniel water "work" over there. Why, you'd have to believe Santa Claus was on the Slimfast diet to believe what was in his video constituted a water "mark" and retrieve.

MG

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:09 am

I was waiting for comments about that little film clip.

All the trial judges want to see is that a dog will swim, the idea being that if a dog will swim 5 yards it will swim 50. Spaniels in tests have to swim far further than that . I also noticed that one of the dogs dropped the retrieve when it reached land, if that had happened during the actual trial the dog might have been eliminated depending upon circumstances.

Merry Xmas to one and all.

Bill T.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:17 am

Trekmoor wrote:I was waiting for comments about that little film clip. All the trial judges want to see is that a dog will swim, the idea being that if a dog will swim 5 yards it will swim 50. Spaniels in tests have to swim far further than that . I also noticed that one of the dogs dropped the retrieve when it reached land, if that had happened during the actual trial the dog might have been eliminated depending upon circumstances.

Merry Xmas to one and all.

Bill T.

Thanks Bill I understand the concept completely about "will dog enter and will it swim will it return with the bird"!
In the Spaniel world here in the USA one cannot win a trial because of outstanding qualities in the water, however one can surely lose a trial by not maintaining established standards.
Water work is really an after thought here in the states.
Merry Christmas.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:14 pm

Trekmoor wrote: All the trial judges want to see is that a dog will swim, the idea being that if a dog will swim 5 yards it will swim 50.

Bill T.

Then 'they' have no idea !

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:01 pm

gundogguy wrote:
Trekmoor wrote:I was waiting for comments about that little film clip. . I also noticed that one of the dogs dropped the retrieve when it reached land...

...In the Spaniel world here in the USA one cannot win a trial because of outstanding qualities in the water, however one can surely lose a trial by not maintaining established standards.

Robt., who won them Irish championships, by way?

MG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:05 pm

Ian Openshaw with Mallowdale Midge (Cocker) .
That little dog was just as pathetic in water as the rest !

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:54 pm

polmaise wrote:Ian Openshaw with Mallowdale Midge (Cocker) .
That little dog was just as pathetic in water as the rest !

I bet that has the springer folks a buzzing

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:26 pm

Normally there is no water test of any kind during or after a retriever trial or a spaniel trial in Britain. Such tests are reserved for dogs that are to become F.T.Ch.'s. Before gaining that award a dog must show that it will swim. I have only seen this done once. A lab was to be made up to Champion and was required to do a water test. A dead bird was thrown into a pond and the dog was sent. When it reached the bird and picked it the judges stopped watching. They turned away , they'd seen all they felt they needed to see. The dog was then a champion.

If water is present at a trial and a bird falls into it or over it during the course of the trial then the dog sent for it had better bring it back or be eliminated. Water tests to make dogs up to champion are different and are much easier. They are not held during the course of a trial.

Water tests held outside of the shooting season are usually part of a normal , fun test and they are sometimes very difficult water tests ....by British standards anyway !

There is quite a big difference between a trial and a test in Britain . I have won quite a number of tests but not nearly as many trials. If test awards were given K.C. recognition I'd have had a number of Field Test Champions.... I hope that never happens.

I think trial judges are correct not to require more than a definite no nonsense swim from a dog destined to be a champion . A more difficult retrieve would prove the handler was capable of training longer retrieves and blind retrieves from in and over water ....but the dog would already have proven it would readily swim. The sort of test seen in the film was given to test the dogs willingness to swim and not the handlers ability to train more difficult water retrieves.

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:37 pm

Bill,
The video clip was taken at the IRISH SPANIEL CHAMPIONSHIP !!
The dogs in the clip are Field Trial Champions!! ..
This is NOT a working test !

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:01 pm

polmaise wrote:Bill,
The video clip was taken at the IRISH SPANIEL CHAMPIONSHIP !!
The dogs in the clip are Field Trial Champions!! ..
This is NOT a working test !

The 7 foot, water retrieve?

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:15 pm

Thanks Robert, the Irish lads do like to do things "differently."

The judges still seem to judge the water retrieve ( done after all the hunting and retrieving that is done during the actual trial ?) as a very simple "does this dog swim or does it not ?" They seemed to treat it as I'm told spaniels to be made up to champion status are judged in Britain .

Is the water retrieve judged as "A" retrieve , "B" retrieve , " C" retrieve or is the water retrieve judged, for example, on a 1 to 10 score basis ? Or is the water retrieve judged as a simple " Pass" or "Fail ?" If an actual score is given is this then added on to the trial score to decide the Championship winner ? If an actual score is given then it could be difficult to judge which dog did such an elementary, short marked retrieve the best ?

It looked like a simple Pass or Fail "do you swim or don't you" test to me.

Bill T.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:39 am

The rules are simple : The dog must show that it can enter water before it can gain a title of ftch !
I bet they don't use the film clip in their promotional videos for stud or pups though

One man's entry to water however may not be the same as the next

I'm happy with that same 'bold' 'workman like' 'determined' 'Drive' 'Enthusiasm' 'with gusto' and all the other descriptions folk use so readily for spaniel work. ----- I just ask the same in the Air Land and Sea

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:59 pm

So I'm assuming Irish trials are like our's and springers and cockers compete against each other?

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:48 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:So I'm assuming Irish trials are like our's and springers and cockers compete against each other?

Good question,CDN, Maybe our UK friends could bring us here in North America up to date on the various spaniel events held in the UK.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:02 pm

With over 100 clubs and societies holding events regionally that would require someone with more time on their hands 'Gundogguy'

A good start is here though

.

The Field trial season ends with our shooting season and that is just a few weeks away .
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/activit ... g-gundogs/

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:57 am

Thanks for the resource, always good to have.
Spaniels competing for Field Championships in The US,either run in Springer or Cocker trials. We do not have an AV( all variety)system of competition. Spaniels and their owners have the opportunity to compete in two different but similar stakes,Open or Amateur all-age stakes. The difference in the two stakes is really about the handler of the dog. In the Open any one can run a dog, in the Amateur only a non-pro owner of the dog may enter and compete.

In Canada there is an Open all-age stake for all varieties of Spaniels. All handlers and dogs may compete for title. Springer's by their shear numbers dominate the game.

Our trial season has nothing to do with hunting seasons. In fact our 2015 session has begun with a trial on Long Island two weeks ago, Jan 10-11 a trial scheduled for Central Ohio. California and Texas will hold trials in Jan.and Feb.
I believe trials are conducted in every month of the year except for June and July and even that may have changed!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:10 am

There is much that could be taken from either side of the pond in the way trials/competition and hunting is done (imo) 'gundogguy' ?
Perhaps the individual KC's would rather not ,to keep their own individuality?

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:57 pm

I have used them while training with others. You definitely need more than 2... at least 6-8. I can't offer much insight - its not really the method I used to teach quartering. Works a little better with springers as they tend to go back and forth like that. Cockers have a little different style when hunting. Hopefully someone can give you more help. I have experience - but it is limited. And not my first choice for training quartering (which doesn't mean much - only trained this 1 spaniel).

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:05 pm

chrokeva wrote:I am curious if others on here use or have used buckets for quartering drills and if so what there experiences are with them? I am about two weeks into working with buckets with my 10 month old cocker and only have two buckets done (one right and one left) at about 17 yards. The buckets drills are much more tedious than I had expected but I am hoping we are past the hardest part since she is finally running out on the first barrel without a dummy planted behind it. We still need to tie in the two buckets and add at least two more from what I understand.
Any insight from those that have used this method?
Here is a short video from this mornings training session.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqYn7_c ... e=youtu.be

The fact that the bucket drills are tedious is a little to deal with,after all you have an obedience formula to teach your dog how run. The video suggests a number questions at first glance. Wind direction? Was the target bumper supposed to be in front of the next bucket or should it been behind? and will you be using the e-collar to correct when compliance is not met? Say when the dog turns on the wrong side of the bucket or even comes up short of the bucket! Has this pup been through place board training? Has he been steadied to wing and shot? has this pup been introduced to birds? There are always a lot of prerequisites in training dog and moving forward in their development.
Incidentally you can use a number of different items instead of buckets but you will need a few more than 2, and they probable should be white, at least in the beginning.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:38 am

Ok, To venture into this form of training you really should have dog that has been completely place board trained. That means all of the introductory work done in conjunction with the place boards. The Here command, the Hup command retrieving work intro to Birds, intro gun fire steadiness wing and shot and e-collar conditioning.
Quartering as such is not an obedience based behavior, it is a way the dog learns how to find birds using his nose and learning how to use the wind that assists them in producing birds for the gun. That means flushing birds with in gun range.. I doubt that I have ever gunned over a Cocker in trial or any where for that matter that has been "bucket trained to quarter the cover and ground", and that covers many years of spaniel work experiences.
However if the obedience trainer in you insists you really need to spend some time with the people that turn you on to this process, and I mean a lot of time. Brietbart would be able to help, though I'm not sure who else in California would be qualified to give you good understanding of this training formula, and trust me it is a formula. The first time I saw it was with Jim Dobbs,not a spaniel man as such but an excellent behaviorist.
Possible you should go hunting and see how a trained dog works and produces birds for the gun, those type of experiences can be most beneficial in learning what a spaniel does to get the job done

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:02 am

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:08 pm

chrokeva wrote:Thank you for your response. Yes you are right Gary Breitbarth and at least one other pro trainer here in California use buckets and I am closely following this formula. I do not have the experience to debate whether using this method is appropriate for quartering drills and have left that up to the pro that is helping me with this. I do agree that it does seem to be more obedience than actual quartering work and curious myself how this is going to tie into a hunting situation but again I am not the pro here only a person trying to train there dog with the help of a pro in my area. I was just curious if others had used this method and if so what there experience has been with it but it sounds like something that is not used so much throughout the country.
As far as cockers and quartering I still have no idea what the difference is in how a springer and how a cocker is suppose to quarter. There is only one other FBECS in my area and it was trained to quarter with buckets in the same pattern as a springer as it was sent out to a springer trainer. I have heard that cockers tend to quarter more in a "V" pattern at trials but I cannot confirm this. Maybe someone on here can? If it is so that cockers move more in a "V" pattern is there a reason for this? It seems a lot of ground would not be covered in this type of pattern but perhaps there is a reason for it?
Anyway lots of questions and I imagine after the trial season is done and I am able to watch some of these dogs run things will become more clear to me.

Good glad you are working with someone. as for Cocker quartering habits the big difference would in the range as compared to Springers. The Cocker patterns would much less in width and depth than a Springer pattern. As for "V" or any other letter, wind direction dictates the shape and scope of the pattern, not breed. ask your mentor if a down wind pattern would produce a 'banana shaped' running pattern or would the pattern stay "flat and go from bucket to bucket".
How often do you meet with your mentor?

This link is about as good as it gets when describing the place boards and the bucket pattern running drills https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXfpfh39kKI
watch this vid in full screen mode if you can!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:22 pm

V pattern , W pattern or even Banana pattern?....
A couple of Big boulders in the path changes that and so does the terrain and more importantly where the game actually IS ?
.............
As for 'teaching' the dog to 'quest' between two guns?......
Two pigeons either side with a couple of good (guns) helpers make pretty good ''Buckets''

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:34 pm

polmaise wrote:V pattern , W pattern or even Banana pattern?....
A couple of Big boulders in the path changes that and so does the terrain and more importantly where the game actually IS ?
.............
As for 'teaching' the dog to 'quest' between two guns?......
Two pigeons either side with a couple of good (guns) helpers make pretty good ''Buckets''

I agree completely Polmaise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXfpfh39kKI

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:13 pm

gundogguy wrote:
polmaise wrote:V pattern , W pattern or even Banana pattern?....
A couple of Big boulders in the path changes that and so does the terrain and more importantly where the game actually IS ?
.............
As for 'teaching' the dog to 'quest' between two guns?......
Two pigeons either side with a couple of good (guns) helpers make pretty good ''Buckets''
I agree completely Polmaise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXfpfh39kKI

The 'Buckets' appeared 'superfluous' .
I liked that Keller left in the 'dizzied' bird that did 'not fly'

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:30 pm

chrokeva wrote:I will ask how wind direction will change her running pattern and I imagine we will be going over this in detail as we get further along in our training. As of now we are done with most of our obedience (not including this bucket work) she has been collar conditioned (again not on buckets), placeboard trained and has a force hold. I meet with my mentor once a week which seems to keep us on track and moving forward. I have intentionally decided not to hunt with her this first year (much to the disappointment of my husband) so that we can get these basics out of the way. I had many people tell me (including my mentor) that my time would be wisely spent not hunting and training this first year...so here we are. I understand that I have a lot to learn but believe me when I say that I am making my best effort to do this correctly and learn about all the things that I am sure many on here have been doing for years. I just keep telling MYSELF that everyone has to start somewhere.

As far as going hunting was not thinking that you take your dog hunting but rather go with some one who has a trained spaniel.
As for wind direction by going hunting you would soon learn the importance of understanding direction and intensity and how it affects the dog! as Polmaise mentioned in his post terrain will also influence running pattern. Best of training

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:48 pm

chrokeva wrote:I will ask how wind direction will change her running pattern and I imagine we will be going over this in detail as we get further along in our training.

Hard to explain, kind of something you need to see. A simple example is a dog going straight into the wind will have a more back and forth (windshield wiper) pattern whereas when working downwind the dog will need to run out farther in front and circle back into the wind (toward you) to scent game. Even my simple example sounds confusing lmao. Maybe its just me... hahaha

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:35 am

chrokeva wrote:CDN....hearing this kind of reminds me of learning to sail a boat . Someone can tell you how the wind will influence the boat but until you are behind the helm and feel the wind on the sails, waves on the hull, and the current of the ocean you really do not know how it will feel.
I am really looking forward to learning and more important experiencing these things with my dog in the future.

exactly good analogy. Right now you are at the stage that concerns are for the mechanics of dog training. Getting past the mechanics so one can find the dogs talent level is the true essence of developing a AA dog.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:44 am

Until I read this thread I had never heard of buckets being used to help establish a hunting pattern. My immediate thought when reading of this was that the buckets positions with regard to the winds direction would have to be considered or a trainer could end up with a clockwork mouse of a dog that hunts to the buckets and not to the wind. If buckets were used on a cheek wind I cannot figure out how they would be useful at all unless the dog completely ignored the wind direction in favour of maintaining it's pattern to the buckets ? I wouldn't want a dog to do that.

Bill T.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:19 am

Chrokeva, why do you think it's wise to not use birds when teaching patterning?

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:44 am

Well that's not how I teach patterning... Yeah when you first start with a young dog it can help associate the peep-peep with changing direction, but after that I don't have helpers. But I do use birds to teach patterning because that's why we teach it, to find birds.

MJB64 · Post by **MJB64** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:37 pm

Trekmoor wrote:Until I read this thread I had never heard of buckets being used to help establish a hunting pattern. My immediate thought when reading of this was that the buckets positions with regard to the winds direction would have to be considered or a trainer could end up with a clockwork mouse of a dog that hunts to the buckets and not to the wind. If buckets were used on a cheek wind I cannot figure out how they would be useful at all unless the dog completely ignored the wind direction in favour of maintaining it's pattern to the buckets ? I wouldn't want a dog to do that.

Bill T.

I have heard some very experienced guys speaking about certain dogs say "you can tell that dog is bucket trained". It was not meant as a compliment. Same pattern with every wind.

Mike

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:20 pm

I have heard some very experienced guys speaking about certain dogs say "you can tell that dog is bucket trained". It was not meant as a compliment. Same pattern with every wind.

Mike[/quote]

Yeah I've seen some of those myself lol

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:39 pm

LOL? I guess that is your way of telling me that my dog will stink after this.
Very nice! :roll:
Enjoy your dogs and your forum!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:45 pm

chrokeva wrote:LOL? I guess that is your way of telling me that my dog will stink after this.
Very nice! :roll:
Enjoy your dogs and your forum!

Or a challenge for you to show how good your dog 'is' ?

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:15 pm

chrokeva wrote:LOL? I guess that is your way of telling me that my dog will stink after this.
Very nice! :roll:
Enjoy your dogs and your forum!

LOL chroveka - theres more than one way to skin a cat. Don't allow differing opinions ruffle your feathers - there are a lot of them here. Buckets can be useful as long as not too much emphasis is put on them and the dog is also being handled on live birds in differing wind directions. The key with spaniels is lots of variety - lots of one type of training will make a dog that looks like it has lots of that kind of training... if that makes sense.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:29 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:
chrokeva wrote:LOL? I guess that is your way of telling me that my dog will stink after this.
Very nice! :roll:
Enjoy your dogs and your forum!
LOL chroveka - theres more than one way to skin a cat. Don't allow differing opinions ruffle your feathers - there are a lot of them here. Buckets can be useful as long as not too much emphasis is put on them and the dog is also being handled on live birds in differing wind directions. The key with spaniels is lots of variety - lots of one type of training will make a dog that looks like it has lots of that kind of training... if that makes sense.

Eva, don't go away ticked or licking perceived wounds - before you zapped all your responses, you had used an analogy about sailing for how spaniels' quartering works. Another adage that's applicable here, a la the Greeks, goes "It ain't the size of the ship, but the motion in the ocean." Not all spaniels are born naturally quartering, and not all of them, even within the same breed, quarter alike naturally. So there's a lot of leeway both for instilling a pattern and perfecting it. For hunting most working spaniels of any breed will naturally "quarter down" to the terrain; the big runners with their wiper pattern too will do it differently in the grouse woods.

But whether buckets are used, or a zig-zag solo afoot, or gunners on the wing "flashing" birds, a pattern is soon inculcated to the dog, to be honed by the repetition of where it's finding (and inevitably flushing) birds. Some spaniels are trained more to run a straight line to "find" their birds

(and it may help if they have the avian equivalent of buckets are out there afield for them to run to

). But they also have the quartering - whatever the pattern entails that the breed works best on, and whatever means of accomplishing it - put in them at a very early age. Breed irregardless, you work to bring that out in them so they can use their nose most proficiently. So stick with it (and with some of the advice proffered here by the likes of Gundogguy, Polmaise and (Star or Sir) Trekmoor) - and your pup will be fine however you choose to proceed.

MG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:17 am

Wow i take a day off from a thread and folks are enjoying the holidays.. Crackerd is right on!
The Bucket drill is nothing more than a set-up that handler and dog can participate in. Say much like "Force to pile" is a setup that non-slip retriever folks use to help prepare their dogs for the work that waits them. Now I do not know very many spaniel folks that use force to pile when training for the upland, however I have and the dogs survive it very well, and really if one wanted a fool proof "hunt dead" command for spaniel hunt tests, I don not test but I do it any way because I never find training and spending time with me dogs as tedious.
I digress, Chrokeva never ever take any thing on the internet personal, I really find it difficult to offer specific information on a dog and handler I have not watched work together. So at this time I think you and your dog are doing well and as I have said before i'm glad you have some you work with on a frequent basis. Let's no how you and your pup grow.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:48 pm

gundogguy wrote: I digress, Chrokeva never ever take any thing on the internet personal, I really find it difficult to offer specific information on a dog and handler I have not watched work together. Let's no how you and your pup grow.

+1
Unless you have physically met the person typing ,there is no way you can see what their make up is like

.If you don't have a thick skin then perhaps the Spaniel world is not really for you?

..Mine make a fool out of me every day

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:21 pm

Thank you gundogguy and crackerd for you thoughtful response. Although I doubt I would put myself out there on a forum like this again I do appreciate you both taking the time to explain some of the things that were said without being sarcastic and unkind. I believe most people would be much kinder if talking to someone in person but on the internet people tend to be rather harsh and I probably am not cut out for this type of communication.
I hope everyone on here continues to enjoy there dogs as much as I do mine.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:04 am

Cold December day, poor scenting conditions and strong birds good time to call Zeta off of marks and keep her honest to bird movement and gun fire.
She really is scary honest. I do not recommend a lot of training or conditioning on a down wind course (back wind), it can lead to some bad habits, such as punching out and un-steadiness due to the distance from the handler and/or gun. But it should be address on a occasion just to keep you dog with you! In the video we are running the beat due north with a stiff wind blowing on our backs from the south to the north. Nancy and I were very pleased with the dogs work that day! Under these conditions you might notice that I the gun makes the decision whether or not Nancy should send the dog for the retrieve. In this case the bird volunteered and was not actually flushed by the dog, at this point in her training Zeta only gets retrieves on bird she flushes. In a small way that allows her some ownership of birds she produces vs's birds that are volunteers. This also acts as an honor conditioning when we are training with just one dog in the field, and it requires another level steadiness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CqSa0BMEnw