Hunting Dog Training & More    

Popular Searches: Garmin Astro | Dog Collars | Tri-Tronics | SPORTdog

The Spaniel Spot

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby Sharon » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:42 pm

welsh wrote:Oh, and while we're talkin' spaniels ... I'm getting little sleep this week.

Image



That's a beauty. Enjoy. :)
User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 7589
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Canada

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby Trekmoor » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:56 pm

Training/encouraging a dog to go back for memory retrieves or to train it to do "blind seek backs" along the route just walked by the trainer is pretty easy I think. A "true" blind is a progression from this and, as I am discovering, not all dogs make that progression easily.

I train for blinds with spaniels just as I did with labs, brits and G.S.P.'s . Up until this springer every spaniel I have had has made the mental leap from memories etc. to "true blinds" fairly easily. I am having to think a bit more deeply when training blinds to this fella !

At present I am working on getting distance done in a straight line from him for if he will go 100 yards for memories etc. without checking partway out to begin hunting then it is my hope he will then be more likely to go 30 -60 yards in a straight line when he is eventually sent for a "true blind."

Bill T.
Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby chrokeva » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:28 pm

I am sure there are many ways to get a spaniel to run a straight line but here are a few videos that Gary Breitbarth did on teaching a spaniel to take a straight line (part two is where he adds cover). I have been working on this with my dog but have not brought it to cover yet.

(part I)
http://www.gundogsonline.com/video/hunt ... part-i.htm

(part II)
http://www.gundogsonline.com/video/hunt ... art-ii.htm

I have also been working my dog on taking a straight line in water by doing something called "channeling" I am sure many of you know that process but this is all new and exciting for me and my dog to learn.
User avatar
chrokeva
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: California

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby CDN_Cocker » Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:16 pm

welsh wrote:Oh, and while we're talkin' spaniels ... I'm getting little sleep this week.

Image

What a sharp little looker! Where's it from???!
User avatar
CDN_Cocker
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 1277
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:59 pm
Location: ON, Canada

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:24 pm

Trekmoor wrote:At present I am working on getting distance done in a straight line from him for if he will go 100 yards for memories etc. without checking partway out to begin hunting then it is my hope he will then be more likely to go 30 -60 yards in a straight line when he is eventually sent for a "true blind."

Bill T.

Sounds like a plan. Hope it works out.
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

The Spaniel Spot

Postby welsh » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:08 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:What a sharp little looker! Where's it from???!


Manitoulin.
welsh
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby gundogguy » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:15 am

chrokeva wrote:I am sure there are many ways to get a spaniel to run a straight line but here are a few videos that Gary Breitbarth did on teaching a spaniel to take a straight line (part two is where he adds cover). I have been working on this with my dog but have not brought it to cover yet.

(part I)
http://www.gundogsonline.com/video/hunt ... part-i.htm

(part II)
http://www.gundogsonline.com/video/hunt ... art-ii.htm

I have also been working my dog on taking a straight line in water by doing something called "channeling" I am sure many of you know that process but this is all new and exciting for me and my dog to learn.


Very good example, Chrokeva. I was introduce to this about 10 yrs ago working Schulzten dogs, Malinois, Shepards, Airedales! Gary has done a fine job with set-ups borrowed from other training venues.
Where this very applicable to our spaniels here in the USA is on diversion birds when your dog is already out on a retrieve. example: The dog produces a bird the bird is shot, the dog is sent to make the retrieve. On the way to the mark the dog produces another bird, that bird is allowed to fly off.. Now the dog needs to forget about this fly away and needs a way to continue on to the original mark. The conditioning needed to teach the dog to run a straight line to the original mark makes it possible for the dog to over come the distraction of the fly away diversion bird. Those white push-in line fencing stakes come in very handy for a multitude of training drills and set-ups.
Hal
User avatar
gundogguy
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: southern Michiganistan

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby chrokeva » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:34 am

Entered Bridget for one day of the hunt test at Grizzly Island this past weekend and received her 2nd master leg. I felt we could have done better on both the hunt dead and the water blind but we pushed through. I was very happy with her bird work on a hot day in very heavy cover. I have recently made the decision to back up and fix some things that I had not done correctly with Bridget's early training and that included getting her forced fetch and forced to water. It has been going great and I am happy with her progress but she really was not ready to do as good of a job as wanted on this test and it could have easily gone the other but this time it worked out.
At 2 1/2 years old it seems that if you missed any of the foundation training it will come back and bite you. I am truly humbled by how much effort it takes to train and maintain a trial spaniel. Hoping this time around I am able to get it right :).
User avatar
chrokeva
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: California

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:01 pm

chrokeva wrote:At 2 1/2 years old it seems that if you missed any of the foundation training it will come back and bite you. I am truly humbled by how much effort it takes to train and maintain a trial spaniel. Hoping this time around I am able to get it right :).

That there is one Golden nugget :wink:
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby gundogguy » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:26 am

polmaise wrote:
chrokeva wrote:At 2 1/2 years old it seems that if you missed any of the foundation training it will come back and bite you. I am truly humbled by how much effort it takes to train and maintain a trial spaniel. Hoping this time around I am able to get it right :).

That there is one Golden nugget :wink:



The lady doth say a mouthful!
User avatar
gundogguy
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: southern Michiganistan

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby Trekmoor » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:40 pm

I was given a just turned 4 months old springer spaniel bitch to keep for a while mainly just to socialise her and to let her see a bit more of the world than she would from a kennel. She is very strongly field trial bred and is just about berserk ! ............. I like her ! :lol:

She seems to be determined to extract every last little bit of fun she can get from life's experiences. I took her into woodlands for the first time in her life thinking to "wind her up" and get her into light cover........... she plowed right into everything ! She didn't need any "winding up" or encouragement.

I took her to swimming depth water for her first time and she tried to run over the top of it in pursuit of my already swimming cocker about 20 feet out from the side .........so she can now swim a couple of strokes too .

She loves retrieving and will bring back anything thrown ......... she is not in any way discriminatory.
She does have some worries when encountering strange people and large strange dogs but I think that will get better with time and with more life experience.

She is crazy keen to please. I had her doing very fast sits to whistle in less than a minute just by rewarding any effort she made to sit with a bit of kibble.
I really like this little pup........wish she was mine !

Her first try at swimming.
Image

Her first encounter with cover
Image

Bill T.
Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:53 pm

Let's hope and pray you don't loose this one Bill :lol: ..
You Know my sense of humour :wink:
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby Trekmoor » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:48 pm

polmaise wrote:Let's hope and pray you don't loose this one Bill :lol: ..
You Know my sense of humour :wink:


Yup ! The thought that I might lose her had occurred to me ! :oops:
For about 10 minutes I thought/hoped/prayed that I'd lost Charlie the cocker today :roll: :!: The little monster is now pushing 10 years old and is still pretty much his own boss ! While I was keeping a close eye on the springer bitch pup he sneaked off and swam across one very large pond crossed 30 yards of land and then swam across the next pond too.......... I think he'd seen a coot he thought he could catch !

Edge the springer pup that got lost for 4 days last year was taken for a day out at the beach today. While he was there he managed to catch a mallard that was a bit too slow in taking to wing ! It was his first ever duck and I'm told it flew away just fine when taken from him and released which is just as well because the beach was full of holiday makers who all seemed to be anti field sports !
Apparently concerned parents were hiding their childrens eyes from the retrieve and expressing their concerns about "dangerous dogs" being allowed on the beach ! :roll:

....................... I think he will be a really good picking-up dog ! :lol:

Bill T.
Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby chrokeva » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:32 am

Sounds like quite a handful of a pup Bill! It must be so much fun having a pup around though.
User avatar
chrokeva
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: California

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby chrokeva » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:51 am

My little monkey doing lots of yard work and learning to "check in" with me and me working on my timing. Please note that no birds where used in the filming of this video :). It is all about getting us to work better as a team. Hoping some of these things transfer when we are out in the field with birds.
Last edited by chrokeva on Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
chrokeva
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: California

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:59 pm

I have seen the cones/posts/barrels used before with 'Yard work' when conditioning quartering/pattern. What direction was the wind Chrokeva ?
Often this side of the pond an overlay of 'pip' or 'pip-pip' on the turn is used.
Works wonders when birds are used though , and a couple of good helpers with impeccable timing :)
The wee dog looks happy with the drill .
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby chrokeva » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:36 pm

It is a headwind but really is not about hunting so not sure wind direction is that important. Ideally this drill would be on bare ground but this was the best I could get. I am working on getting her to look at my hands so I can gain more control (something we have been lacking in). I am happy with her progress so far but my timing is not the best still. At first I did use the pip-pip on turns but was told to drop the pip-pip on turns until she starts taking a bigger bite forward. I believe the reason for this is so that the pip-pip means something rather than just turn at the cone?
User avatar
chrokeva
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: California

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:59 pm

Different strokes for different folks .
I'm aiming for the dog to 'NOT' look at my hands and keep it's nose on the deck.
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby chrokeva » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:25 pm

Interesting how things are done in different areas. Out here at least in California hand control is a big thing in the springer trial game. I cannot say that I have seen much hand control when it comes to cockers but my exposure to cocker trials is pretty limited so others may be able to weigh in on this with more insight.
User avatar
chrokeva
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: California

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:47 pm

We aim for 'Hands in pockets' :) ..
rightly or wrongly .
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby chrokeva » Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:03 pm

ahhhh truth be known I like the looks of "hands in pocket" :)
User avatar
chrokeva
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: California

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby welsh » Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:23 pm

chrokeva wrote:Sounds like quite a handful of a pup Bill! It must be so much fun having a pup around though.


Be careful what you wish for. :)

My pup pictured above is now 11 weeks and nicknamed "The Terrorist."
welsh
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:03 pm

Mine was nicknamed 'The Undertaker' :lol:
Many bumpers were buried ........ :roll:
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby gundogguy » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:16 am

polmaise wrote:I have seen the cones/posts/barrels used before with 'Yard work' when conditioning quartering/pattern. What direction was the wind Chrokeva ?
Often this side of the pond an overlay of 'pip' or 'pip-pip' on the turn is used.
Works wonders when birds are used though , and a couple of good helpers with impeccable timing :)
The wee dog looks happy with the drill .



Whether it be cones or post or even lawn chairs set out in the training field "precision quartering drills" are the up and coming training for the US trial community. I'm neither fore or against. That being said It has its place with some, but not all spaniels, that are headed for a trial or test life style. A side note, the hunting folks will never buy into the process, they just will not put forth the time and effort needed.

One of unintended consequences of the process is more handler related than dog related is that is does help the handler know when to "pip pip" than not.
Also helps the handler know precisely if the dog has covered the course on both sides of the handler, believe me not all handler understand when a dog has 'cut the the course short'. Another facet of this is that it a structure toll in helping new folks learn the game of spanieling. It offers a "track to run on". The process was introduced to the Spaniel folks by a highly structured retriever trainer back in the late 80's early 90's. in my training classes I used similar devices to teach folks how to read and communicate with their dogs.
Specifically in Bridgets case her head will hit the deck when birds are substituted for the bumpers and ultimately her awareness of the hand movement by the handler with become less noticeable. The process lends its self very well when level cover is used for conditioning. You would very rarely see a field with trees or bushes being used in this type of training.
In the Eastern US, judging seems to be favoring dogs that have been condition in this fashion, it kind of like the old saying "when in Rome do like the Romans".

Hal
User avatar
gundogguy
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: southern Michiganistan

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby welsh » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:17 am

Drills like that are good for developing the basic quartering behaviour but if overused they can produce a dog that quarters mechanically regardless of the wind. Naturally, some people will see the benefit and others fixate on the risk.

gundogguy wrote:A side note, the hunting folks will never buy into the process, they just will not put forth the time and effort needed.


But there's little reason they should, as training a dog to quarter a given distance either side of the handler is of little practical use in most real-world hunting situations, where the birds do not conveniently lie between two sets of flags along which gunners walk. :)

The terrain I hunt over and the strategies I use are completely different from trialling scenarios. Those open fields we use for trialling, I ignore; the birds are along the field edges. Hunting is field edges and thickets and hedgerows. It does me no good to have a dog that quarters back and forth over its field-trial beat when the birds are all in a strip of cover to my left. This is one of the ways in which the requirements of the trial world have diverged from the practical exigencies of hunting.

Like you, I'm neither for or against bucket drills (and I'll likely use them with my new pup), but I'm hardly surprised that hunters train for hunting and triallers train for trialling.

gundogguy wrote:In the Eastern US, judging seems to be favoring dogs that have been condition in this fashion, it kind of like the old saying "when in Rome do like the Romans".


I'd hate to think they're awarding dogs that run mechanical patterns. I have heard people complain of judges doing just that but of course different people will always see things differently, so who's to say?
welsh
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:37 am

welsh wrote:
I'd hate to think they're awarding dogs that run mechanical patterns. I have heard people complain of judges doing just that but of course different people will always see things differently, so who's to say?

I can only say from this side of the pond .
But it looks like the 'powers to be' are/have been woken up to the fact , thank the Lord :wink: ..
Image
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby welsh » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:14 pm

Thanks for sharing that. I like this bit:

"Dogs are increasingly being over assisted in this and led from one side of their beat to the other with handlers doing almost as much quartering as their dog."

That's one I've never seen over here but I guess that's the consequence of people training their dogs to work ridiculously close!

Erlandson was making similar complaints 20 - 30 years ago. I suppose this kind of thing probably comes and goes. Much as people hate to admit it, it's the trial equivalent of show atrocities like 100-lb Labs and German Shepherds that can barely walk.
welsh
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:24 pm

Fortunately ,there are more than many still in the system with enough 'Savvy' .
......
In the US ,'Shoe shiners' are not so common ,but then 'Self employment' may be more so.
....
Hunting with a flusher in all terrain in all wind directions would require knowledge of 'reading a dog' for sure.
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby gundogguy » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:35 pm

welsh wrote:Thanks for sharing that. I like this bit:

"Dogs are increasingly being over assisted in this and led from one side of their beat to the other with handlers doing almost as much quartering as their dog."

That's one I've never seen over here but I guess that's the consequence of people training their dogs to work ridiculously close!



I have seen it done by folks for years. In training and those folks that Hunt Test. By the time some one steps into the trialing venue,for the most part they have learn to walk down the course in a relatively straight line. :o Maybe not at the correct pace but at least they are not out quartering their dogs down the beat in trial.
User avatar
gundogguy
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: southern Michiganistan

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby gundogguy » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:36 pm

polmaise wrote:
......
In the US ,'Shoe shiners' are not so common ,but then 'Self employment' may be more so.
....
Hunting with a flusher in all terrain in all wind directions would require knowledge of 'reading a dog' for sure.


Now you have it! It's in the read that makes all the difference.
User avatar
gundogguy
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: southern Michiganistan

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby welsh » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:52 pm

gundogguy wrote:I have seen it done by folks for years. In training and those folks that Hunt Test. By the time some one steps into the trialing venue,for the most part they have learn to walk down the course in a relatively straight line.


I should hope so. ;)

Training a young dog to quarter is one thing but actually running your dog that way is another.
welsh
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:53 pm

gundogguy wrote:Now you have it! It's in the read that makes all the difference.

:lol: :wink:
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby IsThisHeaven? » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:54 pm

I have a 1.5 year old springer. We mainly hunt and occasionally test for something to do. I train every day weather permitting. The cone drills (or whatever object) to teach quartering are something I will never use. The reason I will refrain from using the drill has nothing to do with my devotion to training. I devote plenty of time and thought to my training. If I thought it had any use for what I want out of my dog I would use it. It is way too mechanical. I see it as another step in an ever-increasing gap in what I do and what goes on in trials.
IsThisHeaven?
Rank: Junior Hunter
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:08 am
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby gundogguy » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:44 am

IsThisHeaven? wrote:I have a 1.5 year old springer. We mainly hunt and occasionally test for something to do. I train every day weather permitting. The cone drills (or whatever object) to teach quartering are something I will never use. The reason I will refrain from using the drill has nothing to do with my devotion to training. I devote plenty of time and thought to my training. If I thought it had any use for what I want out of my dog I would use it. It is way too mechanical. I see it as another step in an ever-increasing gap in what I do and what goes on in trials.


"Is This Heaven?'
No this is Iowa, great line from a fine movie, Field of Dreams, My brother and I played in the game last Sept on the Ghost team in Dyersville.
I digress
Kudos to you for your relationship building with your Springer. Please do not think that the entire Spaniel field trial community has been taken over by the formulated mechanical training system, far from it. The trial system in this country has been going thru growing paigns since it's inception in 1927. and will continue to do so until it's end. It is just the nature of the beast. However continue to enjoy your moments with your spaniel, they are very fleeting.
User avatar
gundogguy
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: southern Michiganistan

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby IsThisHeaven? » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:11 am

gundogguy wrote:
IsThisHeaven? wrote:I have a 1.5 year old springer. We mainly hunt and occasionally test for something to do. I train every day weather permitting. The cone drills (or whatever object) to teach quartering are something I will never use. The reason I will refrain from using the drill has nothing to do with my devotion to training. I devote plenty of time and thought to my training. If I thought it had any use for what I want out of my dog I would use it. It is way too mechanical. I see it as another step in an ever-increasing gap in what I do and what goes on in trials.


"Is This Heaven?'
No this is Iowa, great line from a fine movie, Field of Dreams, My brother and I played in the game last Sept on the Ghost team in Dyersville.
I digress
Kudos to you for your relationship building with your Springer. Please do not think that the entire Spaniel field trial community has been taken over by the formulated mechanical training system, far from it. The trial system in this country has been going thru growing paigns since it's inception in 1927. and will continue to do so until it's end. It is just the nature of the beast. However continue to enjoy your moments with your spaniel, they are very fleeting.


gundogguy I don't think that at all. I have been a member of two different spaniel groups. Both groups have been made up mostly of field trialers. I have been to several trials and I carried the bird bag at one. My encounters with field trialers in the training groups have not been good, unfortunately. I keep going to trials because I really enjoy good dogs. I have met several very personable and talented trialers at field trials and I have seen many very impressive dogs.

I am interested in springers so I follow trials and all the best dogs and kennels/trainers for when the time comes for me to get another dog. That search, and my discussions with several great trainers and trialers, has been very positive. I have found that the good ones that have been consistently successful for a while tend to be good to talk to and obviously very knowledgeable.

I train my dog for non-slip retrieving (doves and early season ducks), grouse and pheasants, and finally rabbit hunting. My plan is to test her some next spring after hunting season. I have her fully steady. She can do multiple blind retrieves on land and on water. She has an unbelievable amount of natural ability and intelligence, and she is extremely biddable. Hunting and training are my only hobbies. I do one or the other most every day. I have tried the training groups and they are not for me.

An issue I have is the chasm that appears to exist between trialers and non-trialers (testers and hunters). In my opinion both groups contribute to the problem. It reminds me of the problems that used to exist between gun deer hunters and bow deer hunters. Springers are such great and versatile dogs they have the ability to excel in all of the different formats we have and all the tasks we give them. I wish there was more unity among all involved.
IsThisHeaven?
Rank: Junior Hunter
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:08 am
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby Trekmoor » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:14 am

I am finding this discussion of spaniel hunting quite interesting. A few months back my springer pup won the first test he was ever in ........but unless I change my ideas and my hunting training it is unlikely that he will ever win another one !

I like my spaniels to hunt a considerably wider pattern than spaniel judges over here like to see. My springer is with the owner of his litter brother at present learning rabbit hunting and steadiness to them .....I hope ! :lol: I don't have either the rabbits or the puff needed for that kind of training any more.

My mate says I have made things very difficult for him by training/allowing Edge (the dog) to hunt so far out. He is having to train Edge to stop to flush at 20 yards or more instead of at 5 - 10 yards. He is at present "proofing" the closer in flushes by setting up flushes at 30-40 yards out from him. He is hoping this will make a good , fast sit to flush more likely at the closer distances........ I hope he is right coz I certainly cannot run anything like that far to catch Edge ! Oh to have young legs again ! :lol:

I noticed one of the posts on this subject mentioned fence and ditch and hedge hunting with spaniels ? This is very commonly done here .......but it isn't always very commonly done very well !
Doing this when out shooting is one of the most difficult things I have ever done with a spaniel that has been trained/allowed to hunt as widely as I usually hunt my dogs at. The dog is sent into the hedge or ditch and quickly vanishes ........only to appear again 30-40 yards further along the hedge after flushing a pheasant just on the outside edge of normal shotgun range ! :roll:

I think a spaniel trained in the manner normal for British spaniel trials is the best bet for hedge, ditch and fenceline hunting.
I do this sort of hunting by doing a count of the seconds that have passed by since I last saw my dog. My theory is that if I allow say , only 10 seconds to elapse before I blow turn to bring my dog back into view on my side of the cover it will not have had enough time to follow up on a bird or a rabbit only to flush it out of range .

Even the spaniel trialing lads find this sort of hunting very testing.......which is probably why it is seldom seen in trials !

Oddly enough, and I know this thought is a bit contrary to the "spaniels do best in cover" way in which spaniel folk think............... I think the H.P.R.'s are considerably better hedging and ditching dogs than spaniels are ! I will now put on my flak jacket and helmet ! :lol: :lol:

Bill T.
Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby welsh » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:47 am

With drills like these one, I think it's important to bear in mind that you'll only produce a dog with a mechanical quartering style by overusing the drill. The goal is to instil foundation behaviors to build on, not to polish the final product.
welsh
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby IsThisHeaven? » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:10 am

I want to take advantage of my dog's nose, instincts, and natural ability. The mechanical drills and over-handling, excessive use of the whistle, and general micro-management of a dog risks blunting or losing completely the traits I want to take advantage of.
IsThisHeaven?
Rank: Junior Hunter
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:08 am
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby welsh » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:50 am

You've succeeded in clarifying why you don't get along with training groups.
welsh
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:46 am

IsThisHeaven? wrote:I want to take advantage of my dog's nose, instincts, and natural ability.

Sounds like Self employment :lol:
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby IsThisHeaven? » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:53 am

welsh wrote:You've succeeded in clarifying why you don't get along with training groups.


If only we had discussed this earlier I would have saved countless hours and some money....
IsThisHeaven?
Rank: Junior Hunter
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:08 am
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:57 pm

I was in the company of a few very well known Spaniel folk the last few days who had many accomplishments in the competition arena.
All of them could handle a dog and every dog they had in that arena performed.
A few ,shot over their own dog and a few had their dog shot over by some one else.

.....
No body's dog ran in ! ..Hmmmn!..My bag was full.(idiot me)

A few made up ftch dogs and a few had the ability to not compete with those that do.
All of them started somewhere with the coaching of some one .
..
None of them started solely with the help of the internet or forums.
Many believe they will.
..
Yo' Crackerd' ...Say it ain't so?
Trekmoor' ..Say it ain't so ?
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby Trekmoor » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:43 am

The Internet and forums weren't even a twinkle in someones eye when I began with gundogs ! :lol: You learned ....or didn't learn.....on the job by really looking hard at the way people you wanted to emulate trained/worked their dogs.

I'd had a springer and a lab for almost 2 years before I actually saw gundogs other than my own working . Only then did I find out it was possible to stop dogs on a whistle and then send them in a direction decided by me instead of by them ! :oops: It was a "Eureka" moment for me and I began to actually train my dogs rather than just take them shooting.

Learning to field trial successfully was a bit different from now too. I ran my rough shooting lab that I also did a lot of beating with in the first trial I ever entered , that was Trekmoor Tessa and she was really, really good ..........but I was not ! The judge I was with saw me try to handle her on a runner when I should have left her to get on with the job. The old timers back then had a habit of saying what they thought and "political correctness etc." had never been heard of . The judge asked me there and then , please excuse the language ..........." Are you some kind of f-ing idiot !" :lol:

I was chucked out of that trial but because I could take a row and then come back for more of the same that judge became my mentor and other old timers went out of their way to help me progress.
I.M.O. some of the more modern would be field trailers are a bit too "precious." They don't seem to accept well meant critiscism.

I get annoyed when I see good advice given on a gundog forum get slapped down because it's recipient did not like the way in which it was phrased.
Giving advice is often a bit difficult on a forum. It sort of looks a bit "wrong" to the recipient so they retaliate.
I don't have enough of a way with words to always put things in a totally acceptable way in response to a question so I could end up on the sharp end of someones offended tongue ! :roll:

Bill T.
Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby welsh » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:37 am

Trekmoor wrote:The Internet and forums weren't even a twinkle in someones eye when I began with gundogs ! :lol: You learned ....or didn't learn.....on the job by really looking hard at the way people you wanted to emulate trained/worked their dogs.


Or you asked the guy standing off to the side, the taciturn guy who somehow never looked happy, what he thought of your dog ... and then swept up all the little pieces of your ego and got back to work. :)
welsh
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby chrokeva » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:43 am

Very good post Bill.
Learning to train a gundog on the internet or a book for that matter seems like a impossible task for me but there is some really good advice out there if you know how to apply it to your situation (not as easy as it sounds IMO).
I have accomplished confusing my self (and my dog) in the past and really that is on me. I feel very lucky to have a training group that is supportive and more importantly recently to have a very experienced spaniel trainer agree to mentor me. Realizing that I only knew about 10% of what I thought I knew and pulling my ego out of it was a big part of this. After playing with training for the past few years I finally feel I am on the right track to getting a finished dog.
User avatar
chrokeva
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: California

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby chrokeva » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:06 am

As a side note this week we will be spending the majority of our week working on heel work. Do I want to go back to this beginning step that I thought was "good enough"? NO, but I now realize that without my dogs heel work being precise the chances of getting my dog to the more advanced stages of training is not likely. Is heel work boring and mechanical? yep, but without it it seems that sending your dog on good lines consistently will be very difficult. Not to mention that my dog having no respect for a leash has not done me well :oops: . Honestly my dog and I would really like to go back to getting birds shot over her all the time which is where all the fun is but letting her continue to be self employed and run a muck when it suits her is not what I want as a trial dog or a hunting dog so it is back to basics and this time I plan on getting it right :).
User avatar
chrokeva
Rank: Senior Hunter
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: California

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby gundogguy » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:40 am

Trekmoor wrote:The Internet and forums weren't even a twinkle in someones eye when I began with gundogs ! :lol: You learned ....or didn't learn.....on the job by really looking hard at the way people you wanted to emulate trained/worked their dogs.

I'd had a springer and a lab for almost 2 years before I actually saw gundogs other than my own working . Only then did I find out it was possible to stop dogs on a whistle and then send them in a direction decided by me instead of by them ! :oops: It was a "Eureka" moment for me and I began to actually train my dogs rather than just take them shooting.

Learning to field trial successfully was a bit different from now too. I ran my rough shooting lab that I also did a lot of beating with in the first trial I ever entered , that was Trekmoor Tessa and she was really, really good ..........but I was not ! The judge I was with saw me try to handle her on a runner when I should have left her to get on with the job. The old timers back then had a habit of saying what they thought and "political correctness etc." had never been heard of . The judge asked me there and then , please excuse the language ..........." Are you some kind of f-ing idiot !" :lol:

I was chucked out of that trial but because I could take a row and then come back for more of the same that judge became my mentor and other old timers went out of their way to help me progress.
I.M.O. some of the more modern would be field trailers are a bit too "precious." They don't seem to accept well meant critiscism.

I get annoyed when I see good advice given on a gundog forum get slapped down because it's recipient did not like the way in which it was phrased.
Giving advice is often a bit difficult on a forum. It sort of looks a bit "wrong" to the recipient so they retaliate.
I don't have enough of a way with words to always put things in a totally acceptable way in response to a question so I could end up on the sharp end of someones offended tongue ! :roll:

Bill T.


Bill, Thank-you! That reads like the beginning of my own journey in learning how to build the proper standards in my self and in my dog, along with many dogs since that humble beginning.
User avatar
gundogguy
Rank: 5X Champion
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: southern Michiganistan

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby polmaise » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:09 pm

I miss your Stories in person Wullie,must hook up again soon.
polmaise
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby Trekmoor » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:54 am

Well ......done in a Mr. Humphreys sort of voice ........ I'm free ! :lol:
Sorry folk , it's an old British styled joke. :roll:

Bill T.
Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Spaniel Spot

Postby IsThisHeaven? » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:42 am

Trekmoor wrote:The Internet and forums weren't even a twinkle in someones eye when I began with gundogs ! :lol: You learned ....or didn't learn.....on the job by really looking hard at the way people you wanted to emulate trained/worked their dogs.

I'd had a springer and a lab for almost 2 years before I actually saw gundogs other than my own working . Only then did I find out it was possible to stop dogs on a whistle and then send them in a direction decided by me instead of by them ! :oops: It was a "Eureka" moment for me and I began to actually train my dogs rather than just take them shooting.

Learning to field trial successfully was a bit different from now too. I ran my rough shooting lab that I also did a lot of beating with in the first trial I ever entered , that was Trekmoor Tessa and she was really, really good ..........but I was not ! The judge I was with saw me try to handle her on a runner when I should have left her to get on with the job. The old timers back then had a habit of saying what they thought and "political correctness etc." had never been heard of . The judge asked me there and then , please excuse the language ..........." Are you some kind of f-ing idiot !" :lol:

I was chucked out of that trial but because I could take a row and then come back for more of the same that judge became my mentor and other old timers went out of their way to help me progress.
I.M.O. some of the more modern would be field trailers are a bit too "precious." They don't seem to accept well meant critiscism.

I get annoyed when I see good advice given on a gundog forum get slapped down because it's recipient did not like the way in which it was phrased.
Giving advice is often a bit difficult on a forum. It sort of looks a bit "wrong" to the recipient so they retaliate.
I don't have enough of a way with words to always put things in a totally acceptable way in response to a question so I could end up on the sharp end of someones offended tongue ! :roll:

Bill T.



Good points. I have a hard time understanding people who get offended so easily and especially by something someone says on the Internet or a forum. I guess the person asking for advise would rather continue with an unresolved issue if the information that could resolve the issue is not presented in an acceptable manner.

On a side note. I have noticed those who fancy themselves training/dog "experts" are frequently those whom are easily offended when When someone does not agree with them or presents an alternative. This seems to hold true on forums and at group training days as well.
IsThisHeaven?
Rank: Junior Hunter
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:08 am
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

PreviousNext

Return to Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

| Pedigrees

THIS POST : The Spaniel Spot brought to you by Gun Dog Supply: Dog Training Collars & Hunting Dog Supplies

Click here to tweet this post

  • NOT logged in
  • The Spaniel Spot
  • ./viewtopic.php?f=89&t=44306&start=1600&sid=032304d81e11c77a4e3d80b6e4bb8be3