The Spaniel Spot

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:20 pm

You didn't miss much Welsh .Just some normal sidewangling to detract from the original in favour of the posters .

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:07 am

Looks like I have missed a ton over the past 2 weeks while I was across the pond for work. Very interesting stuff on cockers. How's everyone's hunting going? I plan on getting the cocker out tomorrow if I'm not still dying from jet lag. See if we can't rustle up a grouse or woodcock, hoping I haven't missed the migration. Today though I think me and the pup are just hanging out and laying around while the fiancee and daughter are at school. Think he must've missed me, he's actually sitting quietly against my legs right now instead of acting like a mad hatter hahaha.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:19 am

Cass, across what pond - you mean you went up to PEI for some fall sunbathing?

More importantly, while away, I'm sure you left Jake in the charge of your good buddy Yellow Dog for some elite spaniel training (and dog-whispering wisdom), eh?

MG

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:59 am

LMAO no my dog stayed put. There's no whispering that I want him hearing hahaha. I was in northern Italy the past 2 weeks on business. Nice to be back home though and the leaves are all changed and coming down! Going out tomorrow morning with the dog for sure, whether I'm dragging my behind or not - it's too beautiful to not take advantage of. May do some duck hunting as well with kraka this weekend or soon - well, him gunning and me working the dog. Should be a good new experience for Jake, we haven't done any waterfowl yet as he has always been so bouncy. He's settling down more and more lately, so I think he can handle sitting still in the blind for a while if I'm focused on him and not shooting. Might finally be able to post up crackerd-esque pics of my spanner carrying a goose! hahahaha. We shall see....

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:36 pm

Nah, you know it's only Boykins that can tote geese amongst spaniels - well, Boykins and Sussex

and of course Robt.'s fine fluffy friend Gumbo, the American cocker.

Here's one of the first aforementioned now, via our friend spinster: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/15/ ... lents.html What a nice dog - and the co-owner's husband has a MH Welshie that retrieves waterfowl with the best of 'em as well.

Hey, speaking of spinster, had she or I (or maybe kraka) known you were heading over to Tuscany, any or all of us might've asked you to bring back one of these -

which have a nifty aptitude for picking up geese, too. Hope you get out fowling with Jim - and be sure and give us a report on how the dogs, yours and his, performed.

MG

welsh · Post by **welsh** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:00 am

I don't think you've missed the woodcock, Cass. This weekend ought to be prime ... and of course, I'm on call for work. Going to call the client today and ask what time they intend to start in the mornings. I'll strongly suggest they sleep in.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:36 am

Jake flushed 1 grouse and 1 woodcock today but I didn't hit either. It was miserable out, lots of rain. Maybe we'll go out again tomorrow. I work days monday and tuesday, then off wed and thurs and nights friday and saturday before deer hunting vacation. Going to try to get out Wednesday and Thursday perhaps, although I don't like hunting during deer season so I may not.

UplandJim · Post by **UplandJim** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:44 pm

For anyone interested in the 2014 NCC being held in Tyrone, PA, the 5th Series Callbacks have been posted.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:50 pm

I'm cheering for Matt with Tux! He's been doing well

Matt is the owner of my dog Jake's dam.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:10 am

UplandJim wrote:For anyone interested in the 2014 NCC being held in Tyrone, PA, the 5th Series Callbacks have been posted.

Thanks UJ, Fifth series look about right with the usual suspects chasing the Gold Ring. McGagh, Bradley Botti Martin Wiley, have very well prepared dogs by this time of year.
I not really a rooter or tooter for anyone in particular just have to trust the judges panel to put the best dog up after four days of competition!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:59 am

Tux didn't get a call back. Macey is still in it though! Sounds like a tough one!

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:40 am

Cheering on Dan and Tess they seem to be doing a great job and just got word they got a callback for the water series.

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:19 pm

here are the results..

The wait is over! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
1 Warreners Whip Poor Will "Troy"
O/H:Ritchie Whelan
and GUNS AWARD!!!
2 Lockridge Warrener's Shiva "Shiva"
O: Vicky Thomas H: Paul McGagh
3 Oahe Royal Ivy "Ivy"
O: Rita Marting H: Ben Martin
4 Paul McGagh Aikane Hokulani "Lani"
O: John M. Bishop & Susan Takemoto H: Paul McGagh
Certificates of Merit:
FC Hawthorne's Rose of Cimarron "Gussie"
O: Helen Drake H: Fred Bradley
Triple Ridges Golden Boy "Sonny"
O/H: Ralph Botti
FC Fallen Wings Stonewalker Jazzman "Duke"
O: Hudson Nichols H: Kim Wiley
FC Yuba Diamond Sweet Contessa "Tess"
O: Roy Harris H: Dan Murray

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:33 pm

chrokeva wrote:here are the results..

The wait is over! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
1 Warreners Whip Poor Will "Troy"
O/H:Ritchie Whelan
and GUNS AWARD!!!
2 Lockridge Warrener's Shiva "Shiva"
O: Vicky Thomas H: Paul McGagh
3 Oahe Royal Ivy "Ivy"
O: Rita Marting H: Ben Martin
4 Paul McGagh Aikane Hokulani "Lani"
O: John M. Bishop & Susan Takemoto H: Paul McGagh

Certificates of Merit:
FC Hawthorne's Rose of Cimarron "Gussie"
O: Helen Drake H: Fred Bradley
Triple Ridges Golden Boy "Sonny"
O/H: Ralph Botti
FC Fallen Wings Stonewalker Jazzman "Duke"
O: Hudson Nichols H: Kim Wiley
FC Yuba Diamond Sweet Contessa "Tess"
O: Roy Harris H: Dan Murray

Thanks Chrokeva for posting the final results. As I had stated earlier today the usual suspects were their at the end kicking and scrapping for recogniztion of their dogs.
18 days till the Springer National Open champs in Kansas! Hie-on!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:33 am

Paul and Vicky have some serious talent.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:41 am

Went pond hopping this morning with Mack. We didn't see any waterfowl, but she pushed up a rooster on the way out. Unfortunately it was before legal pheasant hours. So when 9 bells rang we started looking for more. She pushed up 2 more hens in just under an hour before her slow human friend had to call it quits. That makes 10 wild pheasant she's flushed in a handful of hunts.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:41 pm

We flushed 2 grouse and a doodle today. 0 shots fired, all were in the thick stuff

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:41 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Paul and Vicky have some serious talent.

This is how serious talent start the training day at Paul and Vickie's!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--K7dMWOszQ

oregonchris · Post by **oregonchris** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:40 pm

Wanted to introduce myself and say hi, new to the boards from Oregon. My boy has taking a liking to going upland hunting and I foresee here in the next 1-2 yrs a pup in his future. I have a boykin now, 12yr old,and love the dog, although to earlier mentioned boy and his sister, I never had the time to work him and hunt him like I wished I would have. When we get a new pup, will either be another boykin or an ESS, leaning towards ESS because areas I typically hunt are so tall and dense, Boykin would never quit but usually to much for him to go very long and I've felt a bit more leg might help, sound reasonable? All dogs are different, but what if any differences should I expect to see when comparing an ESS to a Boykin?
Secondly I want to start taking the kid around to some trials/hunt tests, have found some for flushers in western oregon/washington, anyone around here know if their are any flushing dog trials ran on the eastside? always been a cow dog guy so want to watch others and learn with my son the right way before we bring in a pup and screw it up.

thanks
Chris

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:07 pm

Got into some pheasants again today. Mack pushed all 3 up pretty aggressively. Only one rooster but she did a nice job tracking it down after the shot (crippled bird).

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:24 am

oregonchris wrote:Wanted to introduce myself and say hi, new to the boards from Oregon. My boy has taking a liking to going upland hunting and I foresee here in the next 1-2 yrs a pup in his future. I have a boykin now, 12yr old,and love the dog, although to earlier mentioned boy and his sister, I never had the time to work him and hunt him like I wished I would have. When we get a new pup, will either be another boykin or an ESS, leaning towards ESS because areas I typically hunt are so tall and dense, Boykin would never quit but usually to much for him to go very long and I've felt a bit more leg might help, sound reasonable? All dogs are different, but what if any differences should I expect to see when comparing an ESS to a Boykin?
Secondly I want to start taking the kid around to some trials/hunt tests, have found some for flushers in western oregon/washington, anyone around here know if their are any flushing dog trials ran on the eastside? always been a cow dog guy so want to watch others and learn with my son the right way before we bring in a pup and screw it up.

thanks
Chris

Welcome aboard Chris! Here are some links that will give you some contacts in Oregon. The current trial season has just ended and the National Championships are soon to begin.
Open Champs is in Kansas the Amateur champs in Illinois. These around the country on an annual basis.
In Oregon "Northweast Ess Club is the local club Here is a link to the website http://www.essft.com/NWESSC/home.html.
Not sure if you are referring to the eastside of Oregon or the east side of the USA. Trialing requires mucho travel. Our Zeta dog there on the right hand side of this post put on 6,000 miles this fall going to 10 trials, she had a bang up start for a 2.5 year old.
Best of luck meeting some of the folks out your way!

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:41 am

Better served by a springer in myriad ways, given your preferences for hunting (and possibly trialing - hey, congrats gundogguy on your fall good fortunes with Zeta - as Boykins can't run field trials). But what you've noted about your Boykin's endurance, or lack of, ain't emblematic of the breed, upland or in the water but most likely down to your own regimen for training the dog (or not). Ask Neil Mace on this forum about how Boykins hold up hunting pheasants in the Dakotas. Meanwhile, this one's still going fairly strong at almost 14 years old

and happier to go harder afield when there are live birds to be found and flushed and trailed as a runner than to go training as a retriever, where there are usually only bumpers and dead birds to be retrieved. Your preferences will decide it, but I wouldn't discount another Boykin based on having raised and trained (or not, as you admitted) a single animal.

MG

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:38 pm

crackerd wrote:Better served by a springer in myriad ways, given your preferences for hunting (and possibly trialing - hey, congrats gundogguy on your fall good fortunes with Zeta - as Boykins can't run field trials). But what you've noted about your Boykin's endurance, or lack of, ain't emblematic of the breed, upland or in the water but most likely down to your own regimen for training the dog (or not). Ask Neil Mace on this forum about how Boykins hold up hunting pheasants in the Dakotas. Meanwhile, this one's still going fairly strong at almost 14 years old

and happier to go harder afield when there are live birds to be found and flushed and trailed as a runner than to go training as a retriever, where there are usually only bumpers and dead birds to be retrieved. Your preferences will decide it, but I wouldn't discount another Boykin based on having raised and trained (or not, as you admitted) a single animal.

MG

Thanks Crackerd, glad to see you still taking nourishment. Boykin would be a great choice for the poster. Now if he wants a dog with a little white on them Springer or Cocker, would also be good choices. But a dark dog like the Boykin would be just fine if that appeals to the poster.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:19 am

gundogguy wrote: Boykin would be a great choice for the poster. Now if he wants a dog with a little white on them Springer or Cocker, would also be good choices.

Hey, Boykins used to have white on them too - what with some of the shall we say shady breedings down South. First one I ever saw was supposedly full-blooded Boykin but was half white! That's the one thing that going AKC - one of two things actually - has been a blessing for. Better breeding practices and enabling Boykins to run AKC retriever hunt tests.

But you know me, I think most any spaniel would be a good choice if you'll put in the training time. But springers have long been and remain the gold standard amongst spaniels and cockers, bless their diabolical little hearts, exude that wow factor afield like no others.

Again wishing you best of luck at the ESS champs, gundogguy - and bravo in getting there.

MG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:24 pm

crackerd wrote: Again wishing you best of luck at the ESS champs, gundogguy - and bravo in getting there.

MG

+1

I was guided to 'take on' the Boykin purely because it hasn't been done here .
Perhaps when I ever get a break from the demands of the mainstream ,this little gem may light up the kennels.

oregonchris · Post by **oregonchris** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:52 pm

crackerd wrote:Better served by a springer in myriad ways, given your preferences for hunting (and possibly trialing - hey, congrats gundogguy on your fall good fortunes with Zeta - as Boykins can't run field trials). But what you've noted about your Boykin's endurance, or lack of, ain't emblematic of the breed, upland or in the water but most likely down to your own regimen for training the dog (or not). Ask Neil Mace on this forum about how Boykins hold up hunting pheasants in the Dakotas. Meanwhile, this one's still going fairly strong at almost 14 years old

and happier to go harder afield when there are live birds to be found and flushed and trailed as a runner than to go training as a retriever, where there are usually only bumpers and dead birds to be retrieved. Your preferences will decide it, but I wouldn't discount another Boykin based on having raised and trained (or not, as you admitted) a single animal.

MG

Thanks Gundog that ess club was what I was looking for, the son and I will be doing some observing this spring, aand MG I agree, my current boykin has more heart than any dog I've owned that wasn't a red heeler, I was more just curious, because I've never really been around springers if that extra bit of leg gives them much of an advantage? also was curious how they typically do in the home vs boykins? current boykin is about the best around the house/kid dog I've had

thanks again for the help

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:10 am

I have a couple questions for folks who do AKC Spaniel Hunt Tests:

I've been to a couple tests, but from a training aspect, what is the difference between a JH test and SH test? Such as what is the most difficult transition for dog/handler?

And also, would you ever suggest skipping the JH test and go straight to SH? What would you looking for in your dog's work before deciding to jump up to SH?

Thanks!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:34 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:I have a couple questions for folks who do AKC Spaniel Hunt Tests:

I've been to a couple tests, but from a training aspect, what is the difference between a JH test and SH test? Such as what is the most difficult transition for dog/handler?

And also, would you ever suggest skipping the JH test and go straight to SH? What would you looking for in your dog's work before deciding to jump up to SH?

Thanks!

The differences a very little, basic stuff, A delivery to hand, Be able to call the dog off a fly away(might as well be steady and be done with it) short hunt dead, (which the handler can move up half way to the target bird(easy peasy) Line steady and delivery to hand at water( there again might as well be steady).
In other words the JH is a joke of a test I would not walk a cross the street and pay the entry to have some newbie tell me I have a Junior Hunter!

1. The transition comes between SR and Master
2 I have always encouraged my clients to Skip JR and SR and train for the Master from the very beginning. "No since putting off till tomorrow what can easily be done today".

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:05 pm

Ok thanks. I am definitely skipping the JH test. By the time the hunt tests start up again she'll be ready for that.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:57 pm

Came across a problem the other day while hunting. The cocker got into a thicket and within 5 minutes flushed 5 birds from the same spot. After the first 2 he started yipping. I could not see him due to the cover but i assume it's because there was a couple birds in there. He's never been vocal. He was wearing his ecollar but i didn't want to correct him while on birds. Am i worrying too much? Could it just be due to him finding so many birds in a small area?

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:18 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:Came across a problem the other day while hunting. The cocker got into a thicket and within 5 minutes flushed 5 birds from the same spot. After the first 2 he started yipping. I could not see him due to the cover but i assume it's because there was a couple birds in there. He's never been vocal. He was wearing his ecollar but i didn't want to correct him while on birds. Am i worrying too much? Could it just be due to him finding so many birds in a small area?

This is an area that I would like to witness be fore offering any ideas. That being said DONOT use the ecollar at any time if it should happen again. There are other ways in some cases to remedy.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:21 am

1st series begins in Spivey Kansas 2014 National Open Champs. The view from the gallery!

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:42 am

Wow that's so open. They would be neat grounds to trial on.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:52 am

Best of luck to you and Zeta, gundogguy - is their a test dog or dogs at the ESS national? If so, sure wish the judges had let the test dog(s) wear a Go-Pro on its/their run.

MG

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:17 am

CDN cocker ..... Do you think the cause of the yap might have been that the dog could not move through the cover as fast as the birds could ? You then get a sort of frustration yap rather than an excitement yap. So far I haven't seen this happen on birds but I have seen it/heard it on rabbits among very thick cover.

Bill T.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:21 am

Trekmoor wrote:CDN cocker ..... Do you think the cause of the yap might have been that the dog could not move through the cover as fast as the birds could ? You then get a sort of frustration yap rather than an excitement yap. So far I haven't seen this happen on birds but I have seen it/heard it on rabbits among very thick cover.

Bill T.

Yes Bill that is exactly what I think it was. He was in some real nasty stuff and he ended up flushing 5 from there but it took him about 5 minutes to flush all of them so my thoughts were that he was hung up in there somewhere because otherwise I would suspect all the birds would have taken flight at the same time. Is this something to worry about? Obviously it is not something that would happen in a trial situation since its one bird at a time, I'm just petrified of any deviation in his training/hunting LOL.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:29 am

I don't think I would be worried about it. Sounds like Jake just has a ton of bird drive. I had a springer that would bark sometimes went sent on retrieves. I suspect he wanted to get there so badly that he couldn't handle it. Coincidentally his name was also Jake. But he never barked while actively hunting.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:25 am

If the noise is in them it only takes the right circumstance to bring it out

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:01 pm

polmaise wrote:If the noise is in them it only takes the right circumstance to bring it out

wow that thought ran through me brain when I thinking about this situation. 2 dogs at class on different occasion began squeaking when asked to honor their brace mate. One was a Cocker the other a Labrador. We did make some head way when we ignored the bark and deprived them of the retrieve which was what each dog wanted.

In fact the Cocker began to squeak when he was cast from the line to begin quartering. we would pick him up and return him to the truck he would be denied the run took about 6 weeks but he has been squeak free for some time . The Cocker dog had to watch an awful lot of dogs work without getting a chance to do the same.
I'm not saying that this what Cass's dog needs because I have not seen the pup in action exhibiting the behavior.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:15 pm

gundogguy wrote:
polmaise wrote:If the noise is in them it only takes the right circumstance to bring it out
wow that thought ran through me brain when I thinking about this situation.

Can you make a dog bark?

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:39 am

polmaise wrote:
gundogguy wrote:
polmaise wrote:If the noise is in them it only takes the right circumstance to bring it out

Can you make a dog bark?

:roll:

Easy Peasy!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:51 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:
Trekmoor wrote:CDN cocker ..... Do you think the cause of the yap might have been that the dog could not move through the cover as fast as the birds could ? You then get a sort of frustration yap rather than an excitement yap. So far I haven't seen this happen on birds but I have seen it/heard it on rabbits among very thick cover.

Bill T.
Yes Bill that is exactly what I think it was. He was in some real nasty stuff and he ended up flushing 5 from there but it took him about 5 minutes to flush all of them so my thoughts were that he was hung up in there somewhere because otherwise I would suspect all the birds would have taken flight at the same time. Is this something to worry about? Obviously it is not something that would happen in a trial situation since its one bird at a time, I'm just petrified of any deviation in his training/hunting LOL.

Careful Cass your making a lot of assumptions about when or why birds flush! and the same goes for trials. Over the years I have been evolved with many multiple flushes during trials.
Zeta had a tricky situation in Minnesota last month that put her out of the trial and it was due to a covey flush of pheasants that flushed over a period of time of about 90 seconds.
each time she was released to go on the retrieve of the 1st bird that had been shot properly another bird flushed, she drops on each of 3 flushes. after all that excitement she needed to handle on the retrieve. Handling on the retrieve it's not good, especially if there are 4 dogs that have not been handled.
Assumptions about what goes in the cover that cannot be seen are very tricky and take time to evaluate as to the actions needed remedy. In other words there are no quick fixes

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:44 pm

11 month old springer.
We are teaching steadiness to the shot yea! but we also want steadiness to the flush yea, but we also want steadiness to the cripple! and we also want no noise/excitement!
It should be a natural progression of hunt/flush/shot/retrieve.
If you can get drive and enthusiasm with all then it's the finished article. This young pup should be finished by the end of this shooting season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZL85wKe0M

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:40 am

Very Nice Polmaise! It would not take much to convert you to USA style spaniel training. Have seen that picture of a young dog many times over theyears. Thanks so much for sharing!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:41 pm

gundogguy wrote:Very Nice Polmaise! It would not take much to convert you to USA style spaniel training. Have seen that picture of a young dog many times over theyears. Thanks so much for sharing!

Already there ! and some.
The 2 that are over the pond are doing nicely I hear

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:52 am

Already there ! and some.
The 2 that are over the pond are doing nicely I hear

[/quote]

Yes, Mother and daughter and a 1/2 brother have finished 4 land series and have been called to water. Water test and then the 5th and final land series will finish up today the 23rd.
At 27 months of age we are just over the moon as to how well she is faring against the experienced dogs!

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:04 am

Final update Young Zeta ran a fine Nat.Champs. 5th series brought windy conditions 45-55mph birds hunkered down she had two traps and 1 retrieve to finish the event.
The old adage came into play "you cannot win trials catching birds" We are very happy with her week in 5 days on the Prairie in Kansas.

A real bright spot was that Zeta's dam Buccleuch Thistle owned by Alex Kerr was awarded a 4th place. Thistle should be fast approaching making Champion.

The trial season for Zeta is over now for about 75 days so training will resume after some hunting and general easy living for the wee dog! However plans are in the works for a very busy campaign during the 2015 season beginning in Late Feb. Hopefully she can have some 20 trials under her collar by the time she turns 3 in July

love2hunt · Post by **love2hunt** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:49 pm

Been a while since I've posted on here, but am finally getting back to working with my FBECS, Bo. I pretty much gave up on hunting him last season due to lack of birds where I was living in VA, so just worked on some retrieving. This past summer, though, we moved to Phoenix, and I've been able to find lots of Gambel's quail to get him on.

I got Bo out for his second hunt last Saturday, and lost count of how many birds we flushed. One water hole had at least 3 different coveys around it. He still has not quite figured out what his job is, but he did flush 2 or 3 jackrabbits, a cottontail, and probably over a dozen quail singles, so he's getting the idea. Without much prompting or training from me, he hunted within range very well. My poor shooting led to no dead birds for him, but next weekend, they are done for

From what I can find, not too many people use a flushing dog out here, but I can't see why not. With as much as these little buggers run, I could see a pointing dog being infuriating. My plan is to hunt him as much as archery season will allow me to, and then really work him on pigeons come February, as I've found lots of places to trap them. I had really become discouraged early on in the bird dog game, but am very excited to have access to wild birds now!

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:09 pm

love2hunt wrote:Been a while since I've posted on here, but am finally getting back to working with my FBECS, Bo. I pretty much gave up on hunting him last season due to lack of birds where I was living in VA, so just worked on some retrieving. This past summer, though, we moved to Phoenix, and I've been able to find lots of Gambel's quail to get him on.

I got Bo out for his second hunt last Saturday, and lost count of how many birds we flushed. One water hole had at least 3 different coveys around it. He still has not quite figured out what his job is, but he did flush 2 or 3 jackrabbits, a cottontail, and probably over a dozen quail singles, so he's getting the idea. Without much prompting or training from me, he hunted within range very well. My poor shooting led to no dead birds for him, but next weekend, they are done for

From what I can find, not too many people use a flushing dog out here, but I can't see why not. With as much as these little buggers run, I could see a pointing dog being infuriating. My plan is to hunt him as much as archery season will allow me to, and then really work him on pigeons come February, as I've found lots of places to trap them. I had really become discouraged early on in the bird dog game, but am very excited to have access to wild birds now!

Glad to hear you are finding some birds here, love2hunt! While our quail numbers are at an all-time low because of lack of winter rains for several years, there are still plenty of pockets at certain elevations, and once you get into them and get a feel for the cover they live in so you can replicate in other areas, it is a blast to hunt 'em up.

You are correct that pointers and versatiles are the main dogs used on quail in Az. I suspect the main reason is that there is so much open country, that a bigger running dog can cover more ground and find birds more efficiently than a closer working dog can - saving the handler some miles on his boots. However, because the birds put on their track shoes, there is a learning curve for those dogs too! Similar to pheasants, it's an advanced skill for a pointing dog to learn the point, relocate, point, relocate, hold, hold, hold...sequence. I've heard the wily Gambels called "chukars of the desert" - whatever, when they are covied up, they run and run and run.

The key to getting some shooting in is to get a big covey busted up and a flusher dog can certainly help with that!!! Once busted out of the comfort of the covey, the singles will hold much tighter to cover - if there is cover, that is!

Some areas are so open that it is really difficult to get them slowed down and get some shots.

It's possible that it might be easier for your young dog to get the picture if you try to find areas with a little more cover (as opposed to lots of open space between bushes, etc.) Then let him bust the covey up good and root out the singles and booyah. You'll hear the birds calling to each other to re-form the covey - keep after them and keep busting them and you'll get them to sit tighter and give you some shots.

I do think with a flusher chasing Gambels it is important to have the control to keep the dog closer once you are into a covey. That said, it is also an advantage if you can get them out there some when it's time to widen the search and find the next covey (of course, that is where the pointers shine.) As I see it, hunting Gambels with a flusher may mean you could miss out on some shots at the very first flush of the covey, but if your dog will handle, you'll be into some very exciting shooting once you get the covey broken up and possibly pushed into some thicker cover. I've seen late season coveys running in front of a pointer in open country, flushing and flying low, and running over and over again, just covering territory - and sometimes putting hills, cholla patches or whatever between them and you. They can be a challenge, for sure, but that's the point, huh?

I'm between dogs right now but have given the FBECS or a Boykin serious consideration for my next one, so I'll be following your posts - hope you keep them up!

Bob Corley has some good information - he lives somewhere outside of Globe I think and hunts French Britts. http://arizonaquailhuntingcamp.weebly.com/

Good luck with those "bleep" devil birds!!

But they are purty, aren't they?

love2hunt · Post by **love2hunt** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:53 am

AzDoggin wrote:
love2hunt wrote:Been a while since I've posted on here, but am finally getting back to working with my FBECS, Bo. I pretty much gave up on hunting him last season due to lack of birds where I was living in VA, so just worked on some retrieving. This past summer, though, we moved to Phoenix, and I've been able to find lots of Gambel's quail to get him on.

I got Bo out for his second hunt last Saturday, and lost count of how many birds we flushed. One water hole had at least 3 different coveys around it. He still has not quite figured out what his job is, but he did flush 2 or 3 jackrabbits, a cottontail, and probably over a dozen quail singles, so he's getting the idea. Without much prompting or training from me, he hunted within range very well. My poor shooting led to no dead birds for him, but next weekend, they are done for

From what I can find, not too many people use a flushing dog out here, but I can't see why not. With as much as these little buggers run, I could see a pointing dog being infuriating. My plan is to hunt him as much as archery season will allow me to, and then really work him on pigeons come February, as I've found lots of places to trap them. I had really become discouraged early on in the bird dog game, but am very excited to have access to wild birds now!
Glad to hear you are finding some birds here, love2hunt! While our quail numbers are at an all-time low because of lack of winter rains for several years, there are still plenty of pockets at certain elevations, and once you get into them and get a feel for the cover they live in so you can replicate in other areas, it is a blast to hunt 'em up.

You are correct that pointers and versatiles are the main dogs used on quail in Az. I suspect the main reason is that there is so much open country, that a bigger running dog can cover more ground and find birds more efficiently than a closer working dog can - saving the handler some miles on his boots. However, because the birds put on their track shoes, there is a learning curve for those dogs too! Similar to pheasants, it's an advanced skill for a pointing dog to learn the point, relocate, point, relocate, hold, hold, hold...sequence. I've heard the wily Gambels called "chukars of the desert" - whatever, when they are covied up, they run and run and run.

The key to getting some shooting in is to get a big covey busted up and a flusher dog can certainly help with that!!! Once busted out of the comfort of the covey, the singles will hold much tighter to cover - if there is cover, that is! Some areas are so open that it is really difficult to get them slowed down and get some shots.

It's possible that it might be easier for your young dog to get the picture if you try to find areas with a little more cover (as opposed to lots of open space between bushes, etc.) Then let him bust the covey up good and root out the singles and booyah. You'll hear the birds calling to each other to re-form the covey - keep after them and keep busting them and you'll get them to sit tighter and give you some shots.

I do think with a flusher chasing Gambels it is important to have the control to keep the dog closer once you are into a covey. That said, it is also an advantage if you can get them out there some when it's time to widen the search and find the next covey (of course, that is where the pointers shine.) As I see it, hunting Gambels with a flusher may mean you could miss out on some shots at the very first flush of the covey, but if your dog will handle, you'll be into some very exciting shooting once you get the covey broken up and possibly pushed into some thicker cover. I've seen late season coveys running in front of a pointer in open country, flushing and flying low, and running over and over again, just covering territory - and sometimes putting hills, cholla patches or whatever between them and you. They can be a challenge, for sure, but that's the point, huh?

I'm between dogs right now but have given the FBECS or a Boykin serious consideration for my next one, so I'll be following your posts - hope you keep them up!

Bob Corley has some good information - he lives somewhere outside of Globe I think and hunts French Britts. http://arizonaquailhuntingcamp.weebly.com/

Good luck with those "bleep" devil birds!!

But they are purty, aren't they?

I found the tip about hunting the thick stuff to be so true. I tried chasing a couple coveys down in the open areas and I could never get within range. The water hole I mentioned, though, had much thicker cover, and I had plenty of birds flushing from 10 yards or less.

I definitely see the advantage in a pointer to find the coveys. There was quite a bit of fruitless walking involved in between birds for me that could have been run by a pointer instead. However, I think I'm picking up a better eye for the cover they like, so I'm going to continue scouting to find some more coveys.

Oh, and if this is a low bird number year... I can't wait for a high year! I hunted for several different days in the thick, nasty cover back in VA and never found the first grouse or woodcock. You guys have it good here!