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One year old Visla, HELP

One year old Visla, HELP

Postby Wing Chaser » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:45 am

I have introduced him to quail and he has no problem finding them and has tracked down wild birds on one occasion, but he has not pointed yet and appears to be losing interest. I purchased a couple of bird launchers in order to have him find specific birds and train to point and he finds them but he does not have real interest in the birds presented that way. He also has lost interest in fetching his dummy. I allowed him to find pen raised birds on several occasions, did I do this enough to bore him? His obedience is good how ever whoaing him in the field results in him coming back to me and not stopping so whoaing him at the bird launcher does not work. I have been told that Visla's are a little slow to mature and I probably just need to back off the training. I would appreciate your help.
Thanks
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby KwikIrish » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:14 pm

Hopefully a mod will move this to an area where more people will see it and you can get some advice.
Info that might help those with more experience than I...
Describe how a training session goes. (Do you use a check cord, have you shot a bird for the dog, how often do you work him, how long does a training session last, what kind of control do you have over the dog in the training session, when do you launch the bird for the dog) the more descriptive you are the better they can help.
Most importantly, What training program are you following (if any)?
Good luck
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby Vman » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:47 am

After reading the post several times I see a confused dog.
#1- Leave the launchers home.
#2- Work on the Whoa command in the yard not in the field. How are you saying Whoa? Are you saying WWWhhhhoooaaaa or WHOA! It should not be a reprimand. It should be long and pleasant. Short and harsh can make a dog come back or leave game.
#3- While in the field keep quiet. Don`t distract her.
#4- Its Oct. go Hunting. Let the birds teach her.

You may try running her with another youngster also. All fun and can do no wrong. Show her some pigeons or quail and make her bird crazy. If she is not bird crazy yet, that should be your priority.
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby RoostersMom » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:45 am

V's mature slower than some breeds. I do not teach whoa at all until after the first season in the field. I teach "here" and that's about it. You need to put zero pressure on the pup this first year around birds...all fun!
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby Tika V » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:23 pm

You NEED to go get yourself a "training with mo" book and start from the begining and follow his methods. I was/am also a new V ower and new to training. I trained all willie nille at first not know which step to do when and created problems. Mo's methods have turned her around 100% they are very low presure training tactics perfect for Vizslas. Mo and his methods have done wonders for me and my dog.
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby will-kelly » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:25 pm

Tika V wrote:You NEED to go get yourself a "training with mo" book and start from the begining and follow his methods. I was/am also a new V ower and new to training. I trained all willie nille at first not know which step to do when and created problems. Mo's methods have turned her around 100% they are very low presure training tactics perfect for Vizslas. Mo and his methods have done wonders for me and my dog.



+1

The dog doesn't become bored they become disinterested. My guess is that you began to work on trying to finish the dog before developing the hunt.

You have to develop the bond between the dog and it's natural desire to hunt long before you develop pointing. If the hunts not there then stop the training and launchers you are trying to work. Get some good flying quail or wild pigeons. Put them on the ground and just let the dog be. If you get good flyers they will be gone before he can get to them. You'll begin to see a big change if you let the dog develop naturally instead of trying to implement a systematic approach.
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby DonF » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:19 pm

Alright, how do you tell the difference between disinterested and bored? The dog comes back to you when you say whoa because that's what you taught it to do, you never made the dog stand still and stay there while you walked away. I wondered about teaching from the heel, just couldn't figure out how they could get away from the dog without the dog moving. Well DUH! Used to do some obedience training and I could leave my dog's on a long sit and on a long down. Finally occurred to me, standing there is nothing more than a simple position.I don't teach whoa at heel. Whichever method you use to teach whoa keep in mind that all your teaching the dog to do is stop and stand still. Ya need to read up on that.

Not pointing the birds. Could be a slow developer as was mentioned. Or you could have over done it. I'd put the dog on remote traps and put no pressure at all on the dog to point, in fact I wouldn't let it point. Dog get's anywhere near the bird, pop out the bird and let the dog do as it will. Timing on your part has to be right. To many people that use the remote traps, always give the dog another step or two to see if the dog will point on it's own. Tell me who cares if it does that early on? Certainly not me. If the dog want's to chase, let it but, you say right there till the dog come's back. Most dog's early on come back to the trap and smell the trap to see what it was. If you choose to check cord the dog into the bird, that's what Delmar did, no remote traps then, what the remote does is become the helper's hands. Now you can get to the bird and flush it while controlling your dog.

At your point now, I'd back off and start doing a bunch of happy timing with the dog. Do a bit of whoa work each day but don't drill the dog with it and don'y drag it out. You are never going to get your dog to stop and stand still away from you until you teach it to stop and still. Whoa for your dog, or so it sounds to me, means to come in and stand by you. Your dog is confused and you are confused, get a good book on training and a DVD about the same method by the same trainer. Ignore all else. Learn one way right before you start to experiment. You are going to have set backs, don't look for a different way o get what you want, learn the right way according to the book/DVD you have. Don't get Wolter's book!!!
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby will-kelly » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:35 pm

Alright, how do you tell the difference between disinterested and bored?


I don't believe a dog ever gets bored. It's a very human concept. His natural hunting instinct is absent and I am guessing that is a fault of the handler/training and not a natural reaction.

As a second observation I would stay away from whoa at this point. The dog does not understand and is coming back to you to find out what he's doing incorrectly.

Let him run. Let him chase and let him catch a bird if you have to. Build that prey drive. It makes training so much easier and when problems arise you go back to the birds and things will eventually work out.
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby Trekmoor » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:28 pm

I agree with the "let him hunt and let him chase" ideas. Vizslas do tend to mature a bit more slowly than other breeds. I'd let him be a pup for a while longer before adding the "frills and fripperies."

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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby Meller » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:14 am

Get Mo's book and DVD! :)
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby slistoe » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:45 am

The dog no longer thinks birds are fun. Take him to the field - let him have some fun with birds. Let him learn to love to hunt - then worry about putting rules on the game.
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby Wing Chaser » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:27 am

Thanks all, I think I got some good advice here. Can you give me more than just "Mo" to go on, I would like to check out the book and DVD.
The whoa issue I think is the result of whoaing him every time we crossed a street, my big worry was running him in to the traffic around here, and it was not the slow whoooaaa as suggested, it was a sharp don't get in the street whoa. When I read this I remembered the whoa I used with my Wienerimer was the slow one and it worked great. Several of you and others have said he just still a puppy so slow down. I think this is the main issue. This is only my second dog and if an effort to not make the same lack of training mistakes I made with my first dog I think I have tried to do too much with him.
Thank again.
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby Meller » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:29 pm

Maurice Lindly, can find him on here or go to Martha Greenly, and get the book or DVD from either one.
I believe you can find these at Lion Country or Gun Dog Supply. :)
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby tailcrackin » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:42 am

I was kinda scared to put this up. I kinda felt you all would argue, and tell me why the books cant be bought there. LOL, You can get the book at Lion Country, or Gun Dog Supply. Maurice and Martha Greenlee, are out. Back to work!!
Thanks Jonesy
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby will-kelly » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:28 pm

Now we're getting somewhere.

Whoa at the edge of a road means don't cross the road. "Whoa on birds means he comes back to me."

You have communicated to him that whoa means come to my side so we can cross the road. I am guessing you talked to him while crossing the road as well. This is where the confusion comes in.

Forget the word Whoa around birds. Just a start but don't use it. Now just let the dog go after some birds. Dizzy up a pigeon or two may be even a quail. Let the birds teach him he has to be still before he pounces. The natural point will follow.

No more whoa ever. Use a different word and reteach the desired behavior. I use wait. If everyone is leaving out the door I always want the dog last. I say wait and she stands until I release her to follow.

As for a word around birds I no longer use one. Mo's book taught me a ton. I had my doubts but after about 6 months things started to change. Today my 2 year old vizsla held a point for about 10 minutes. I was amazed. The bird actually moved off by the time I found her in some thick cover.

Good luck. Go back to the basics and if you can get that bird drive up it will allow you to fix most problems down the road when they arise.
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby tdbmd » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:19 pm

Interesting reading!

I go on Saturday to pick up my 7 month old female Vizsla from the trainer. She has been there for the last 2 months. I don't know what to expect. The trainer mentioned on the phone that she is very independent. Not sure if that is "trainer speak" for stubborn? He also said she is not really interested in retrieving. Good hunter but just not into the retrieving. Guess I will know more after working with them on Saturday. I hope it turns out OK! Lots of money invested in her so far. Hopefully she is just a bit slow to mature as was noted above. I am now kind of nervous after the phone call today.
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby Sharon » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:23 pm

Don't feel intimidated. You're the customer; ask ALL the questions you want. Ask to see the dog in action. Ask what you should be doing next. " Very independent" could be a very good thing. Not unusual for a young Vizsla not to be into retrieving; doesn't mean it will never happen.

However ,don't have unreasonable expectations. At 7 month she is still a very young dog and will have lots to learn.I think it takes maybe 2 years to have a solid hunting partner.

Let us know how it goes.:)
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby tdbmd » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:32 pm

Thanks Sharon,

I am just nervous, I guess.

Have not had a hunting dog for a number of years and did not feel qualified to do the training all on my own so went with a very well thought of local trainer. I may be worrying unnecessarily. Guess I was just hoping to hear the trainer say she is a great dog and is doing wonderfully. Although, on a plus note, they didn't call me after 2 weeks and tell me to come and get her, as she should just be a pet! I have a couple of friends who have had that experience!
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby dan janssen » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:50 pm

Don't worry most of my vizsla's didn't retrieve birds until they had one hunting season under them. Most of them wouldn't take to force fetching. If you are hunting and they pick the bird up praise praise praise it will come
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby tdbmd » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:28 pm

Did they actively look for downed birds, but just not retrieve?
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby dan janssen » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:18 pm

Yes they will always find the downed bird but will not retrieve
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby tdbmd » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:50 am

At the trainer's yesterday, she would pick the bird up but only bring it back part way. Or she would just stand over it. Otherwise, I was very pleased with how she worked in the field, how she hunted close and responded to direction changes. Sometimes a bit hard headed with the "here" command and required the use of the e-collar.
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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby Trekmoor » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:54 pm

I don't think I'd complain too much if the vizsla I train was a bit more independent. I described her today to a friend as "hunting like a snail with a sore foot !" :x I began training her at about 7 months and she did not like retrieving . I wouldn't worry too much about your 7 months old pup not being a keen retriever. If you develop the retrieving slowly and carefully she will probably come to love it. The vizsla I have here is now 2 years old and is now a very keen retriever of both dummies and game. If she would run when hunting with the same enthusiasm she shows when retrieving she'd be a very good dog.

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Re: One year old Visla, HELP

Postby tdbmd » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:52 pm

She is very intense when hunting and when chasing a flushed bird. When she was younger, like 18-21 weeks or so, she was pretty good with retrieving a dummy. I have a chukar frozen in the freezer that I am going to thaw and work just in the yard, really short distances with her a bit.
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