GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

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pointstar
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GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by pointstar » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:36 am

First of all thanks to everyone for the help in my choosing a trainer with locate feature, I have pretty much made my choice, however it is a lot of money. Not that I can not afford it, but the price puts me near the price of a GPS training unit, which if it does what it should would make a lost dog a thing of the past forever. The thing is that I know that many hunters work exclusively in open grass or on or near water where the line of sight to the sky is not obstructed. I will be in tree filled parks and forest almost exclusively and my computer unit in my vehicle often loses line of sight on paved roads thru the trees, Now I like new techy things, but also know that sometimes the old way is best, and if something that cost upward of six hundred dollars is not 100% dependable then I have wasted my money and would have been better off with less. Anyone have brands to look at and know if they work or not, deep inside a national forest. Thanks..........

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ruffbritt4
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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by ruffbritt4 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:01 pm

Check out the garmin astro 320 with dc 40. I love mine and have not lost signal in the thick woods yet. Great to have the piece of mind. It seems like a lot but after the first time you cant find the dog, it pays off.I love mine.

clink83
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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by clink83 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:15 pm

I use a sportdog tek GPS collar in the forest here in Idaho and it works well enough to find a dog on point or find a lost dog. A beeper may work better at finding a dog in thick stuff, but it won't keep my dog from spending the night with wolves.

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SteveElms
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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by SteveElms » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:31 pm

I'm new to upland bird hunting but I have ran coonhounds in the woods quite a bit and hunted behind some mountain lion hounds. I'm no expert on tracking collars but here is my $.02. I have had my Garmin astro with 2 collars for about 3 years (DC 30 collars). I've had one collar go bad and had to be sent back to Garmin. They were great and sent a replacement right away. I've also had 1 incident where the dog shut the collar off by hitting the switch presumably against a tree branch. Otherwise I've only lost reception for brief periods of time. I also have th extended antenna on the handheld. My dogs have treed in some pretty dense cover (river bottoms etc) and I was still able to locate them.

I also have a Marshall tracking system. I have 8 collars for it and have run up to 5 dogs at a time with it. I've never lost reception or had problems with it. It doesn't tell me how far away the dog is but it has much more range and the collars will outlast the Garmin by days. I mostly use it in really rough country (big canyons, mountains, etc.) or when I have a dog that would blow a track out of the country beyond the range of the Garmin.

I've hunted with some other people that have had experiences where a Garmin would have not found the dog. A good friend had a dog go down a hole but his tracker kept emitting a signal. He was able to find his dog that was stuck in the hole. He ended up renting a backhoe to dig the dog out. Those are the situations where the old style telemetry collars outperform the GPS. If my dog goes through a culvert I lose signal until it comes out the other end with a gps. The telemetry collars will still work. It's only a problem with the GPS if the dog stops in the culvert/cave/den and doesn't come out. My only experience has been with the Marshall collars and watching friends use their tracking systems. I like the Marshall because I can replace the batteries myself instead of sending the collar in.

If I could only have one style of collar it would be the telemetry collars. The GPS is great and I can see exactly where my dog is at and what it's doing but if things go bad I prefer to know the tracking collar has a few more days of transmission left and not a couple of hours.

Steve

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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by DGFavor » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:37 pm

If I could only have one style of collar it would be the telemetry collars.
Absolutely. Personally I've had real good performance with Tracker telemetry systems but they're all good - just need to figure out how big a unit you want to pack around. I gave away my Garmin.

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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:46 am

I think what you'll find is that for the typical bird hunter, the Astro 320 with 40 collar is all you'll need. I've run one for years now, the 220 first, now the 320. It is VERY rare that I have ever lost contact with the dog in the heavy forests of Wi. and Mi. or the prairies of SD. It is rare the dog is more than 250 yards from me. The Astro is small and east to carry. When the dog goes on point, take a Buick glance at the screen, take a bearing from the arrow, put the unit away, count your paces and walk a straight line to the pooch. Easy.

If I were hunting off a horse, or still running hounds from a vehicle, I'd use a Tracker. But they're big and cumbersome. I think for the average bird hunter, the Astro will do everything you want.
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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by DGFavor » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:21 pm

Tracker receiver units are far from big and/or cumbersome fitting in a typical hunting vest pocket. The transmitters are significantly smaller than the GPS transmitters as far as what the dog has to pack around. Certainly Marshall, Wildlife materials or other telemetry receivers approach or excel at being cumbersome. :wink:

I look at it as which unit is most likely to result in me getting my dog back - period. At this point and time it's not even a fair comparison between telemetry and GPS - maybe someday - I certainly hope GPS systems advance to that level.

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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by pointstar » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:46 pm

SteveElms wrote:I'm new to upland bird hunting but I have ran coonhounds in the woods quite a bit and hunted behind some mountain lion hounds. I'm no expert on tracking collars but here is my $.02. I have had my Garmin astro with 2 collars for about 3 years (DC 30 collars). I've had one collar go bad and had to be sent back to Garmin. They were great and sent a replacement right away. I've also had 1 incident where the dog shut the collar off by hitting the switch presumably against a tree branch. Otherwise I've only lost reception for brief periods of time. I also have th extended antenna on the handheld. My dogs have treed in some pretty dense cover (river bottoms etc) and I was still able to locate them.

I also have a Marshall tracking system. I have 8 collars for it and have run up to 5 dogs at a time with it. I've never lost reception or had problems with it. It doesn't tell me how far away the dog is but it has much more range and the collars will outlast the Garmin by days. I mostly use it in really rough country (big canyons, mountains, etc.) or when I have a dog that would blow a track out of the country beyond the range of the Garmin.

I've hunted with some other people that have had experiences where a Garmin would have not found the dog. A good friend had a dog go down a hole but his tracker kept emitting a signal. He was able to find his dog that was stuck in the hole. He ended up renting a backhoe to dig the dog out. Those are the situations where the old style telemetry collars outperform the GPS. If my dog goes through a culvert I lose signal until it comes out the other end with a gps. The telemetry collars will still work. It's only a problem with the GPS if the dog stops in the culvert/cave/den and doesn't come out. My only experience has been with the Marshall collars and watching friends use their tracking systems. I like the Marshall because I can replace the batteries myself instead of sending the collar in.

If I could only have one style of collar it would be the telemetry collars. The GPS is great and I can see exactly where my dog is at and what it's doing but if things go bad I prefer to know the tracking collar has a few more days of transmission left and not a couple of hours.

Steve
Wow, thanks Steve, there is a lot in there for me to think about. I never even realized that GPS units could be out of range with the signal reaching as far as satellites in space. I have to get something though, my pup took off today, not sure what she saw, probably a deer. Thanks again,

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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:58 pm

DGFavor wrote:Tracker receiver units are far from big and/or cumbersome fitting in a typical hunting vest pocket. The transmitters are significantly smaller than the GPS transmitters as far as what the dog has to pack around. Certainly Marshall, Wildlife materials or other telemetry receivers approach or excel at being cumbersome. :wink:
What about the antennas? Aren't they large and have to be held in a separate hand? How would that work grouse hunting?
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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by pointstar » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:20 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:I think what you'll find is that for the typical bird hunter, the Astro 320 with 40 collar is all you'll need. I've run one for years now, the 220 first, now the 320. It is VERY rare that I have ever lost contact with the dog in the heavy forests of Wi. and Mi. or the prairies of SD. It is rare the dog is more than 250 yards from me. The Astro is small and east to carry. When the dog goes on point, take a Buick glance at the screen, take a bearing from the arrow, put the unit away, count your paces and walk a straight line to the pooch. Easy.

If I were hunting off a horse, or still running hounds from a vehicle, I'd use a Tracker. But they're big and cumbersome. I think for the average bird hunter, the Astro will do everything you want.
Do the Garmin Astro collars give you a recorded map of where the dog has gone, and can you get a mileage reading on how far the dog has actually traveled during an entire outing? From what I can see now, my new pup is one of the true German Shorthairs, that wants to hunt with the handler and not be 5 miles out on her own so it seems that a beeper collar might suffice at least for now. Then again she is growing and ranging farther literally every day....

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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by DGFavor » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:06 pm

What about the antennas? Aren't they large and have to be held in a separate hand? How would that work grouse hunting?
No, with the Tracker the whole receiver unit fits in your hand/operates with one hand and slips right into a vest pocket. They have a built in attachment for an accessory yagi or omni antennae as well as headphones to cancel ambient noise if things really get desperate. I do have a 5 element yagi I can attach and headphones that I used to keep in the truck for emergencies but I have never had to use 'em, the basic unit works great...maybe my dogs don't cover enough ground. Here's the last 5 minutes of about a 15 minute video I did a couple years ago tracking Bugsy, one of them fake GSP's I guess, down standing a covey of huns (the fast beep indicates dog is pointing, standing, sleeping, or dead...i.e. not moving) - Vimeo only let you post 5" back then.
https://www.vimeo.com/18415366

Bonus fake GSP action:
https://www.vimeo.com/36873458
I never even realized that GPS units could be out of range with the signal reaching as far as satellites in space
I lost communication once with my Garmin at 36yds chukar hunting - dog went down, around and under a long cliff band literally right in front of me and the thing signalled lost communication immediately - almost threw the thing away right then and there...if I had not actually seen the dog go there I doubt I would have ever picked him back up with the unit if he went on point...well actually I always ran a telemetry collar on him as well for a failsafe since I didn't trust the Garmin. :wink:

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Re: GPS collars working in very heavy tree cover

Post by SCT » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:57 pm

I believe the Tracker is the least expensive of the telemetry receivers, at least it was when I had one. I've had my Garmin lose track of my dogs many times, but have been lucky enough to find them each time. The longest time was 2 1/2 hours and once I got high enough and the dog was on a hill I got a signal and busted over there to get him. But, every time my Garmin fails to track them because of distance, I sure regret not having my telemetry transmitter on them. Advantages to both/either, but when things get real scary, telemetry will come through more often than the Garmin.

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