Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

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kdave21
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Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by kdave21 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:59 am

Hi all- First some quick background, then a question-

I have a 4 1/2 month old Spinone. He has done great with basic commands, and has quickly become a great pal around the house. I have done some relatively light hearted training in the field with him. I have been trying to introduce him to birds and get his interest going. On some days he has shown some great promise, other days he seems like a goofy little kid. The first time I had him in the field with me with live birds, my training partner accidentally let a chukar out of the pin and it flew off next to the edge of a corn field. We decided to just go with the flow and see what he would do. I took my dog downwind, he found it, and went on point. I was very proud, let me tell you. (The pic I will post is of his point). We also did a drag with a dead bird just for the fun of it, and he did phenomenal tracking it. The second and only time he has been around live birds was last week when I planted some quail. It seemed more like he was curious about them, than "crazy" about them. He was a bit slow finding them, and when he did, and they flew off, he would just kind of watch them go... He did seem to do a modified point where he crouched down, tail wagging a hundred miles an hour, not really what I was expecting.

While I am pleased with my dog, and optimistic about his potential, my gut is also telling me that I need to do more to increase his prey drive. It seems that more than anything else right now, I really need to do everything I can to make him "bird crazy."

I think I have access to pigeons for a cheap price. What are your thoughts on buying some, clipping their wings, and letting the dog chase them around? I have seen this suggestion on this forum, but I want to know if this is generally considered a bad or good idea? I know some things I have read have suggested that you should never let your dog catch a bird. However I have seen contrasting philosophies on this forum, and In the Puppy Development II DVD, one of the Smiths said if you have a dog that needs to get energized about birds, that its not the end of the world if it catches one, and that it might even be a good idea.

I do not want to get into the bird breeding business. But I am willing to spend money on pigeons on a regular basis. Supposedly someone nearby me sells them for $2 a piece. Help me out guys, am I on to a good idea? Will doing this increase my dogs prey drive, and if so, what is the best way to go about it?

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Sharon
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Re: Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by Sharon » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:45 am

Did his parents hunt?
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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will-kelly
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Re: Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by will-kelly » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:08 pm

There is only one way to increase prey drive. Prey.

Whether you decide to start using clipped wing pigeons, chukars or quail the prey drive is something you will develop. The dog is a predator and domestication and breeding change the natural order but the genetics are still there.

Curious is what you want from a 4.5 month old dog. They are like infants/toddlers and need to learn about different smells of different birds.

I would make sure you are following a system and not just adding birds without a purpose.

kdave21
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Re: Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by kdave21 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:43 pm

Did his parents hunt?
The sire did, and was titled.
There is only one way to increase prey drive. Prey.

Whether you decide to start using clipped wing pigeons, chukars or quail the prey drive is something you will develop. The dog is a predator and domestication and breeding change the natural order but the genetics are still there.

Curious is what you want from a 4.5 month old dog. They are like infants/toddlers and need to learn about different smells of different birds.

I would make sure you are following a system and not just adding birds without a purpose.
Thanks Will-Kelly. Regarding your last statement about following a system, I think you bring up a good point. I have been trying to follow the Puppy Development way of thinking by Rick and Ronnie Smith. I am needing to go deeper though I think, so last night I ordered "The best way to train your gun dog: The Delmar Smith method." by Bill Tarrant, and "Training with Mo" by Martha Greenlee. I realize that there may somewhat conflicting ideas in any two books, but I figure it doesn't hurt to educate myself on all the ideas that are out there.

kdave21
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Re: Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by kdave21 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:52 pm

Forgot to post pic. This is about a month ago.
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Sharon
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Re: Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by Sharon » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:54 pm

He's a beauty.
"Training with Mo" by Martha Greenlee.: excellent choice

He's very young. Just enjoy and let him develop independence. Say little in the field.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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will-kelly
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Re: Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by will-kelly » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:14 pm

I watched and read them all. From PS/PF, Silent Command, Hickox, Delmar Smith, etc. I called some of the authors and asked questions and got great answers.

My Vizsla could not handle the pressure of some of those systems and I looked into Mo's book and dvd. Martha did a great job of capturing Mo's method and transferring from the book to the field.

I have been working my 2 year old Vizsla on the West Method/Mo's Method and it is tough at first. Once you see the system begin to work you will be hooked. It's the most natural method of them all. The other systems work but they didn't work for this dog. Now when hunting my Vizsla I use the occasional whistle or here command but the rest of the hunting is silent. No Whoa. It's an amazing system and I highly recommend it to anyone who has the patience.

I wish I had Martha's book when I bought the pup. It's hard now to think about training any other way.

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AZ Brittany Guy
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Re: Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:14 pm

Let us know if you are able to get The Delmar Smith method." by Bill Tarrant. If you do, let us know where you got it. :) Both systems are very good.

kdave21
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Re: Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by kdave21 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:35 pm

I watched and read them all. From PS/PF, Silent Command, Hickox, Delmar Smith, etc. I called some of the authors and asked questions and got great answers.

My Vizsla could not handle the pressure of some of those systems and I looked into Mo's book and dvd. Martha did a great job of capturing Mo's method and transferring from the book to the field.
Your whole post was helpful Will. Thank you. That helps me be a bit more confident in my decision to buy the book, especially knowing what you said about your Vizsla's personality. I think I need to be real careful to pace myself, and not be too heavy handed with my Spin. Sounds like Training with Mo will really fit the bill for what I am looking for.
Let us know if you are able to get The Delmar Smith method." by Bill Tarrant. If you do, let us know where you got it. Both systems are very good.
Thanks for the input! I found a copy on Ebay, but I had to pay for it. It was $38 after shipping, and it was the second cheapest copy on Ebay (rated as "acceptable" condition). I think Amazon had some to, but also quite pricy.

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SpinoneIllinois
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Re: Newbie with question about fostering prey drive

Post by SpinoneIllinois » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:04 am

Your pup is doing fine for his age. And yes, at this early stage, there's no harm in letting pup play with a few birds. Put a few crippled pigeons or quail in a field and let him go crazy. But don't overdo it -- a couple of sessions should be enough.

As for the curious-type of point: A spin does have a different pointing style, but your pup is still learning and figuring things out. He'll soon learn what happens if he locks up and holds a good point -- he gets a bird.

Here's what you're going to be teaching him: If pup finds a bird and holds steady, you're able to make the thing in your hand go "bang," and pup gets the bird. But if pup finds a bird and tries to move in on it, there's no "bang," and the bird flies away.
You will want launchers for this. And you'll need to shoot birds when he does his part properly.

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