pup only responding to nick with ecollar

[ROTTnBRITT]

I have an 8 month old setter that isn't responding to voice commands and the whistle most of the time. He acts as if he doesn't hear me at all. I have to nick him with the collar to get him to respond.
He is perfect on the cc with the commands but no responce when off. He is good inside to house, little stuborn when its time to go in the crate, but when outside he is in his own world. I know outside at home he always destracted by looking for the cat. (Its quite annoying) but he also acts the same when running in the field.

Any advice on getting him to respond better?

[gonehuntin']

Challenge him. I don't believe the dog is as perfect as you think even on the cc. Tempt him and challenge him on the cc. If he passes all challenges, then start from square one a condition him to the ecollar.

[mlittle]

I liked the advise. Give us some examples of how you would challenge a dog on the cord.

[Sharon]

Gone huntin' will give you some ideas for challenging on the CC. He is still very young.( the dog , not GH) Don't get impatient. Takes 2 years to have a good , reliable bird dog. My 5 month old spends a lot of time looking for the cat too. Better to take some steps back, then rely too much on the e collar at that age. Pup may be slower at maturing. What bird activity are you providing for the pup? Birds will get pup's attention in the field for sure.

( seventh inning stretch is over)

[gonehuntin']

To challenge him, work with commands he knows.

Open the door to the house or car and when he tries to go in, jerk on the cc and command No, Here!
Have a family member bend down and coax the pup to them. When he starts to him, command Here! And jerk him on the cc.
Command Whoa! And throw clipwings at him and around him, making hi stay steady.
Command Whoa!, walk inside the house and when he moves, come out and correct him.

When he is perfect at all of this, condition him to the collar and start all over again, first close, than at longer distances as he progresses. You don't have to be fair with him. Call here softly, but loud enough for him to hear it. If he ignores you, zap him. What you have to do is to get the dog to pay undivided attention to you, so you don't have to pay attention to him. It' called "promoting handler awareness".

[BigJake]

You never mentioned the type of setter that you have, if it is a ryman type setter, take your time, they are slow to develop. Try not to confuse the dog, for instance, if he doesn't come right away when you call him, but eventually he does, do not reward him with negative reinforcement. Keep everything fun, he is still a puppy and not all dogs mature at the same rate. I have a ryman type setter, and when I go out to the folks, who also have a setter, he acts like I don't exist, all he wants to do is play with the other dog. He is getting better, but it is a slow process.

[ROTTnBRITT]

To challenge him, work with commands he knows.

Open the door to the house or car and when he tries to go in, jerk on the cc and command No, Here!
Have a family member bend down and coax the pup to them. When he starts to him, command Here! And jerk him on the cc.
Command Whoa! And throw clipwings at him and around him, making hi stay steady.
Command Whoa!, walk inside the house and when he moves, come out and correct him.

When he is perfect at all of this, condition him to the collar and start all over again, first close, than at longer distances as he progresses. You don't have to be fair with him. Call here softly, but loud enough for him to hear it. If he ignores you, zap him. What you have to do is to get the dog to pay undivided attention to you, so you don't have to pay attention to him. It' called "promoting handler awareness".

I get what your saying here. Just a bit nervous about getting to hard on the pup. I don't want to take any confidence away from him. Ill take it slow and give it a shot.

[Del Lolo]

Teach (self-explanatory)
Enforce (physically) --- cc, heeling stick etc
Reinforce (ecollar)

[DonF]

Assuming you have already taught what you want and the dog does have it, your timing would be way off. Command immediately followed by the nic if not obeyed right away. The dog learns to avoid the nic by executing the command right away. Your dog is also collar wise but I'm not so sure that matter's anymore. Everyone with few exception's put the collar on the dog 100% of the time unless they are field trialing. Then it's off for the brace but with constant training, most people claim they never have to use the collar but the dog does wear it. What happens then is the dog does the command out of conditioning, reflex action. But in a trial if the dog realizes the nic never come's they can get very smart.

[Swampbilly]

He is perfect on the cc with the commands but no responce when off.

"When off"
When what is off- ( collar?)
Most dogs respond better when they're inside because there's no where to go in a confined space.
Don't give a command that you're not in a position or unable to re-enforce- anywhere.

Hey I'm in Gonehuntins' camp as of going back and "re"- CCing pup.

Seems to me that perhaps the collar may have been the only aversive used when you CC'd, (not that there absolutely HAS to be other aversives), but sounds like collar pressure may have been used very sparingly when you did use pressure to CC, and maybe not enough re-enforcement to voice/whistle commands.
NOT suggesting at all that you overwhelm pup with it , but suggesting you thoroughly CC,-- meaning,.. you might consider a choker, 30ft checkcord, and HEELING Stick to re-enforce in Obedience lessons, and then layer collar pressure to replace pressure from choker.
Then begin to "re-layer" your whistle commands--re-enforce!

To challenge him, work with commands he knows.

Open the door to the house or car and when he tries to go in, jerk on the cc and command No, Here!
Have a family member bend down and coax the pup to them. When he starts to him, command Here! And jerk him on the cc.
Command Whoa! And throw clipwings at him and around him, making hi stay steady.
Command Whoa!, walk inside the house and when he moves, come out and correct him.

When he is perfect at all of this, condition him to the collar and start all over again, first close, than at longer distances as he progresses. You don't have to be fair with him. Call here softly, but loud enough for him to hear it. If he ignores you, zap him. What you have to do is to get the dog to pay undivided attention to you, so you don't have to pay attention to him. It' called "promoting handler awareness".

I get what your saying here. Just a bit nervous about getting to hard on the pup. I don't want to take any confidence away from him. Ill take it slow and give it a shot.

It's good that you have the awareness of this^^^
If you keep Obedience and Retrieving or Field Work as separate venues,THEN bring it all together later, you shouldn't have to be overly concerned about sucking the drive/confidence out of your dog.
In other words-
You don't want to get your dog on some birds, and then turn that into this big, huge, Obedience lesson fighting for a correction for one reason or another.
Save all that for the yard.

[ROTTnBRITT]

He is perfect on the cc with the commands but no responce when off.

"When off"
When what is off- ( collar?)
Most dogs respond better when they're inside because there's no where to go in a confined space.
Don't give a command that you're not in a position or unable to re-enforce- anywhere.

When the check cord is off.
He always has the ecollar on. I only take it off at night when crated and it goes back on in the morning when I let him out.

I did a short session with the CC last night and he was responding very well to everything. Going to start over and take it slower this time. Making sure he has complete understanding of the commands and he needs to pay attention to my voice and whistle.

[Sharon]

I have an 8 month old setter that isn't responding to voice commands and the whistle most of the time. He acts as if he doesn't hear me at all. I have to nick him with the collar to get him to respond.
He is perfect on the cc with the commands but no responce when off. He is good inside to house, little stuborn when its time to go in the crate, but when outside he is in his own world. I know outside at home he always destracted by looking for the cat. (Its quite annoying) but he also acts the same when running in the field.

Any advice on getting him to respond better? quote Rott n Britt

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"He always has the ecollar on. I only take it off at night when crated and it goes back on in the morning when I let him out. " quote Rott n Britt

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Definitely your choice , but I would not leave an e collar on that long. If you need it 16 hours a day , something is wrong. What about using a short lead in the house for correction? Is there too much correction going on , so the dog is turning you off/anxious? Sh

[gonehuntin']

.............................................

Definitely your choice , but I would not leave an e collar on that long. If you need it 16 hours a day , something is wrong. What about using a short lead in the house for correction? Is there too much correction going on , so the dog is turning you off/anxious? Sh

+1. He'll develop sores from the collar. I like the collar to mean enjoyment for them. I get the dog excited before I put it on him. If he's going for a walk, I "hey, hey" him, get him excited, then strap the collar on. Same if we're going to train. I want him to associate the collar with pleasure.

When he ignores you, do you ever grab him by the scruff of the neck and just give him a "bleep" good shake? Sometimes you cabn't beat "hands on experience".

[Swampbilly]

.............................................

Definitely your choice , but I would not leave an e collar on that long. If you need it 16 hours a day , something is wrong. What about using a short lead in the house for correction? Is there too much correction going on , so the dog is turning you off/anxious? Sh

+1. He'll develop sores from the collar. I like the collar to mean enjoyment for them. I get the dog excited before I put it on him. If he's going for a walk, I "hey, hey" him, get him excited, then strap the collar on. Same if we're going to train. I want him to associate the collar with pleasure.

When he ignores you, do you ever grab him by the scruff of the neck and just give him a "bleep" good shake? Sometimes you cabn't beat "hands on experience".

^^^ ^^^
If the dog is screwin' ya' , screw him back
+ Another on the collar on that long, that's a long time day in day out. Agree w/ Sharon- if you need it on that long something isn't right

[ROTTnBRITT]

Okay. Let me clarify the lenght of time.
He has it on to go out in the AM. Wears it for an hours maybe. Take it off for crate time while I'm at work. Goes back on a 6 or so when I get home. I keep it on him till like 9 or 10 until bed time. I usually take him out about ever hour or so during the night for potty and fresh air. If he sees the cat and chases I will give him a zap. Other than I don't need to use it much on a daily basis. I guess I can start taking it on and off, bit I figure if I'm not taking it on and off all the time he is less likely to become collar wise. He just thinks its always on.

In the field its seems to be constant. Here and there he will comply but most times he needs a nick.
I'm going with rushed training on this. And going to start over and slow down.

Thanks for the responces.

[ROTTnBRITT]

Double post

[Sharon]

"Am going to start over and slow down." quote

Always a good plan. What plan are you using?
I don't know if this is your first dog , but for my first dog I had a plan that had him winning at Ames at 2. :roll:

Just realized that pup is a red setter. I don't know much about them. Do they mature more slowly than some setters? Others may know. Did the parents hunt/test/trial?

Are you training the setter separate from the Brittany?

PS Sorry to sound like a Police Officer.

[ROTTnBRITT]

Hahaha.
Yes. I am planing on him winning Ames at 2. Lol.
I am using the huntsmith methods. His parents are field trial dogs. I'm not sure about the slow maturing thing, but I do keep. it in the back of my mind. I don't train with my dogs together.