How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

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Dash_9
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How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Dash_9 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:41 am

Got my dog out with the launcher for the first time yesterday. I had already introduced her to birds (pigeons) a little prior to this. I still took one and got her real excited with it, and let it fly in front of her. She of course tore after it and I let her run to the end of her cord. The first 2 birds I planted and brought her downwind of the launcher. She sort of perked her head and ears up around 30 feet from the launcher so I popped the birds each time. On the 3rd bird, she stopped and gave me somewhat of a point (i've seen her do better haha). I loosened up on her cord and started walking toward the launcher. The first step she took I popped the bird. However, on the fourth bird, she ran right into the launcher full speed. It was hard to see coming because she was so jazzed up at this point she was tearing all over the place from left to right, I never noticed if she scented the bird or not. I held her back a bit and popped the bird, although I'm not sure if I should have done something differently. I should also mention that I moved the launcher with each bird.

So, as many of you have have been down this road before..how many time did you have your dog out before it started giving you better points. I know this was only the first time, so I wasn't expecting much, I was just curious.

Also, another thing I was curious about...should I let her run out some of her energy BEFORE I start with the launchers each time? She gets extra excited when I take her to the grass fields (much more so than when I take her in the woods close to home to run). Would she possibly concentrate any better if she has run out some of her pep beforehand?

I should also add that she's 3 years old, not a puppy.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by ACooper » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:52 am

Are you moving the launcher with each bird? Are you bringing her cross wind on the down wind side?

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Dash_9 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:56 am

Yes to both

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:29 am

Dash -

Here is my progression....

From the time the pup is about 4 months old, I do heel/whoa drills after the manner of Paul Long, but using a pigging string(cheapie version of a Smith wonder lead). I do short sessions twice a day, or more, just about every single day. By the time the pup is seven or eight months old, it is heeling and stopping, turning and allowing me to walk in front... all off lead. I will stop the dog, bend down and stroke the dog up. I will also gently but firmly push from the rear quarters forcing the dog to dig in and lock up even tighter... to remain in place. I do also steady up and style the dog up on a bench and on the ground in the same manner.

THEN... I take the pup into the field, with a long checkcord on and work it into the scent cone of a remote trap with a pigeon in it. I bring the dog in cross wind and downwind of the trap. The instant the dog give ANY indication that it scented a bird(turned head, increased alertness, a step toward the trap, etc), I launch the pigeon and grab hold of the checkcord(which ideally has a SMALL amount of slack in it). If the dog lunges for the bird as it flushes, I stop the dog with the checkcord. I then stand it up, style it up and make it stand there for a good minute or even two. Then I heel the dog away and put it away.

I ty[ically do this at about eight or nine months of age, when the dog is VERY reliable in the yard. If the dog shows no inclination to stand when it sees the bird flush, I go back to yardwork for a couple of weeks(or more) and then try again with one bird. The dog will stand, when it is ready. That might be at nine months old, ten months or fourteen months. Once it stands and allows me to flush the bird, if it chases, I will stop it with the checkcord, reposition it, style it up, and make it stand, again for a full minute or even two minutes...by the watch.

I have successfully steadied several dogs in this manner. Most ceased attempting to chase after one or two checkcord corrections. A couple required NO checkcord correction and were steady to wing the very first time I tested them. One was steady to wing, and to shot...the very first time.

That being said...my most recent student was a real PIA in this regard, however. I simply could not get her to stop wanting to dive in and chase and she appeared to be VERY soft, so I did not want to press the dog and ruin her, so I sent her off to her breeder and trainer for the summer. So far, so good. She is currently a competitive shooting dog derby. Simply put, my method did not work well for this particular dog.

No one method is right for every dog and you need to know when to put your ego in your pocket and ask for help or go in a different direction.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Sharon » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:36 pm

Ray is much more knowledgeable than I , but I use a different approach that has worked well for me.

I don't have my dog on the CC in the fields, ( assuming they are safe fields).

I want the dog to chase and learn he can't catch the bird. This makes him more reliable when you are not close during those hunting/trialing days in the future . I use hard flying pigeons, initially.

The dog learns he can't catch , so starts to creep and then point. ( Takes as long as it takes. Depends a lot on the dog's breeding.) At that time the CC goes on , no more chasing. During that time period I have transitioned the dog to an e collar.
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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by DonF » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:34 pm

I do have the dog on a cc but I don't hold it. I get the dog in cross wind and soon as it gives any indication it has scent or is where I think it should have scent, I pop the bird. Sounds like you were stopping the dog with the cc. That'll work but it is the long way. With remote traps you have the ability to make a pigeon act like a wild bird and you know right where it is every time and where the wind is from. Use that to your advantage and let the bird train the dog. Talking is best done in the house with the wife, in the field, no talking. Don't be a handler, be a bird!
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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by slistoe » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:21 pm

Once the birds are "under control" in the launchers the dog is "under control" on a CC with me hard on the end of it. Launchers are for training and training requires control. If you want to jazz a dog up use soft plants.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by KwikIrish » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:47 pm

Did you do all of this in one day? I would keep your sessions short and end on a positive note. I probably would have ended it on your third bird. Depending on its age and experience, it's possible she was just over excited/frustrated. Some days, a dog will take 3-5 birds before we quit, while other days, I'll quit after she nails the first scenario. Short and sweet, setting her up for success.
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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Uplandish » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:43 pm

DonF wrote:I do have the dog on a cc but I don't hold it. I get the dog in cross wind and soon as it gives any indication it has scent or is where I think it should have scent, I pop the bird. Sounds like you were stopping the dog with the cc. That'll work but it is the long way. With remote traps you have the ability to make a pigeon act like a wild bird and you know right where it is every time and where the wind is from. Use that to your advantage and let the bird train the dog. Talking is best done in the house with the wife, in the field, no talking. Don't be a handler, be a bird!
Excellent advice!

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Dash_9 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:15 am

Thanks for all the responses. Yes, this was all 5 birds in one day. Looking back now, I think she was just a little over excited to be out there. I take her a woods run everyday, but she gets extra excited when I take her to this particular area. I think what I'm going to do when I take her next is, let her run out some of her energy first, THEN start with the launchers. I'll see if this makes any difference

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by slistoe » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:21 pm

Take your launchers to the woods sometimes and take her to the other location to just run without planting birds a few times. Dogs are situational learners and it sounds like your dog is quick to associate activity and place. Change it up on her.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Elkhunter » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:36 pm

I cant hardly run my Pointer in "training set ups" anymore. As soon as we get there and stake him out and cut him loose he just snakes around and points every freaking bush. He knows why we are there and it just bugs me, so I wait till the chukars pair up near me and run him on those. Can usually get 3-5 finds in an hour or so.

As for the dog not pointing, if you have wild birds I would run him on those. I have a 18 month old female that after her sixth hunting trip she is finally starting to point birds, then busting them. Just exposure usually does the trick.

If you dont have wild birds, then the launcher advice you have been given is good.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by BellaSpinone » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:23 am

I will do as many birds as it takes in one session.. We set out five launchers in a line perpendicular to the wind. I have something to mark their location. Walk the dog in cross wind on cc one at a time. Someone is following and reloading. I do not move the launchers. Go up and back until dog gets it or see it is time to end session. At a minimum a session is 20 birds. Depending on the dog I may or may not let them free chase.

Every dog reacts differently.

Recently helping a friend with his two 6 month old GWP that were ripping birds. The one would hit the scent cone and just accelerate to take out bird. We are big guys 6 ft plus and going over 250 lbs ... We put a spike collar on the male dog and that helped. After a week of this I began whoa with bird drill (50 + pigeons a session). The pup had been taught walking whoa. Put the pup on a board and tossed birds. Two weeks of this and back to field. Pup was steady as a rock .. The female was a piece of cake..

So with your dog I would think about whoa with bird drill. In my experience they seem to under stand the game much better after whoa with birds. We Laughling call it being the big dog when our pups progress thru this stage.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by DonF » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:39 am

Elkhunter wrote:I cant hardly run my Pointer in "training set ups" anymore. As soon as we get there and stake him out and cut him loose he just snakes around and points every freaking bush. He knows why we are there and it just bugs me, so I wait till the chukars pair up near me and run him on those. Can usually get 3-5 finds in an hour or so.

As for the dog not pointing, if you have wild birds I would run him on those. I have a 18 month old female that after her sixth hunting trip she is finally starting to point birds, then busting them. Just exposure usually does the trick.

If you dont have wild birds, then the launcher advice you have been given is good.
Your dog is sticky. Change training area's often. The dog is playing your game.
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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by DonF » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:42 am

Dash_9 wrote:Thanks for all the responses. Yes, this was all 5 birds in one day. Looking back now, I think she was just a little over excited to be out there. I take her a woods run everyday, but she gets extra excited when I take her to this particular area. I think what I'm going to do when I take her next is, let her run out some of her energy first, THEN start with the launchers. I'll see if this makes any difference
Try to end on a good note but don't drive home the mistake's. 5 birds in one session and didn't do any right? A good plan for failure. If you can't get the bird work you want in just a couple birds, stop on birds and go to something the dog does do well. End on a good note!
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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by bonasa » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:13 pm

DonF wrote: Try to end on a good note but don't drive home the mistake's. 5 birds in one session and didn't do any right? A good plan for failure. If you can't get the bird work you want in just a couple birds, stop on birds and go to something the dog does do well. End on a good note!
So true Don. I firmly believe in one and done, quit a winner and you both feel good. Sometimes less is more.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:25 pm

Yes keep the dogs wanting more don't bore them to death with TOO MANY BIRDS one right after the other let them run some & learn to hunt.

This is something new trainers over do & it can back fire on you.You have to learn when enough is enough. :)

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Elkhunter » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:17 pm

DonF wrote:
Elkhunter wrote:I cant hardly run my Pointer in "training set ups" anymore. As soon as we get there and stake him out and cut him loose he just snakes around and points every freaking bush. He knows why we are there and it just bugs me, so I wait till the chukars pair up near me and run him on those. Can usually get 3-5 finds in an hour or so.

As for the dog not pointing, if you have wild birds I would run him on those. I have a 18 month old female that after her sixth hunting trip she is finally starting to point birds, then busting them. Just exposure usually does the trick.

If you dont have wild birds, then the launcher advice you have been given is good.
Your dog is sticky. Change training area's often. The dog is playing your game.
Or just not even use pigeons...!! :)

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by ultracarry » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:59 am

Two weeks to two months ... Steady to wing and shot.. :)

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by bonasa » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:04 am

I certainly agree with you too ultra. Once a program or a certain series of events is progressing the process goes so fast and fluid. I believe you are an advocate of steadying them young <1 yr, as am I. The dog will tell you, a flash point or a pause at the flush can go one or two ways, the way you want or establish bad habits.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by DonF » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:20 am

Elkhunter wrote:
DonF wrote:
Elkhunter wrote:I cant hardly run my Pointer in "training set ups" anymore. As soon as we get there and stake him out and cut him loose he just snakes around and points every freaking bush. He knows why we are there and it just bugs me, so I wait till the chukars pair up near me and run him on those. Can usually get 3-5 finds in an hour or so.

As for the dog not pointing, if you have wild birds I would run him on those. I have a 18 month old female that after her sixth hunting trip she is finally starting to point birds, then busting them. Just exposure usually does the trick.

If you dont have wild birds, then the launcher advice you have been given is good.
Your dog is sticky. Change training area's often. The dog is playing your game.
Or just not even use pigeons...!! :)
Doesn't sound like the pigeon's to me. Some dogs do get to where they couldn't care less about the pigeons but that doesn't make them sticky. If it was the pigeons, they'd either just stop and stand there when they find them or just turn away.
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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by ACooper » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:30 am

Some dogs are smart and figure out the game.

I've got a male that has call backs at trials figured out, he's basically on point from the time I pull him off his stake.



I prefer to run my dogs on launchers with no checkcord. I start them as puppies popping birds for them, if they point great, if they don't that is okay also, I just launch the bird. I don't have access to tons of wild birds, but I do have access to launchers and pigeons and a place to train right out the back door.

If the pup gets to close to the launcher on the wrong side of wind I pop the bird, if they don't point I pop the bird, if they point and creep I pop the bird. etc etc etc.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by tjsnipehunter » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:46 am

It sounds like from all this that having just one launcher can help, is that right? Will running a dog on one or maybe two birds a day be enough if I can keep things controlled and launch the pigeon as soon as he hits scent? Thanks, having 3 or 4 launchers just isn't going to be an option.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Coveyrise64 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:53 am

ACooper wrote:.....I prefer to run my dogs on launchers with no checkcord. I start them as puppies popping birds for them, if they point great, if they don't that is okay also, I just launch the bird. I don't have access to tons of wild birds, but I do have access to launchers and pigeons and a place to train right out the back door.

If the pup gets to close to the launcher on the wrong side of wind I pop the bird, if they don't point I pop the bird, if they point and creep I pop the bird. etc etc etc.
Me too, except I do a little launcher intro around the yard first. Sure don't want to make a young dog launcher shy.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by ACooper » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:06 am

Coveyrise64 wrote:
ACooper wrote:.....I prefer to run my dogs on launchers with no checkcord. I start them as puppies popping birds for them, if they point great, if they don't that is okay also, I just launch the bird. I don't have access to tons of wild birds, but I do have access to launchers and pigeons and a place to train right out the back door.

If the pup gets to close to the launcher on the wrong side of wind I pop the bird, if they don't point I pop the bird, if they point and creep I pop the bird. etc etc etc.
Me too, except I do a little launcher intro around the yard first. Sure don't want to make a young dog launcher shy.

cr

Great point, I do the same.

Here is a puppy that picked it up very quickly.

http://youtu.be/RQh3NXVCCII

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Elkhunter » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:34 pm

Doesn't sound like the pigeon's to me. Some dogs do get to where they couldn't care less about the pigeons but that doesn't make them sticky. If it was the pigeons, they'd either just stop and stand there when they find them or just turn away.
Explain, I dont understand what the point your trying to make is?

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Sharon » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:56 pm

ACooper wrote:Some dogs are smart and figure out the game.

I've got a male that has call backs at trials figured out, he's basically on point from the time I pull him off his stake.
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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Dash_9 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:06 pm

Had her out today, she did much better. This time however, before I did anything bird related, I took her to one of the other areas there and let her run for a good while...just burn off some steam. This seemed to help her stay a litter more focused for later. Got 5 birds again, same as last time. She wanted to rush in on the first one after she picked up the scent, to which I immediately popped the bird. The next one she just stopped and stood there with her ears up when she picked up the scent, as soon as she took a step in the bird got popped. For the last 2 she gave me pretty good points. She actually stayed put, which was nice because she'd creep up anytime she pointed anything prior. I got a few steps in on both before she ran in toward the launcher, didn't get past her though. Much better than last time. I moved the launcher with each bird, same as last time. This time though, I had better wind. Better meaning it was more consistent from the same direction. I think that may have screwed things up a bit last time.

The only thing I was iffy about this time was when went on point and we were at least 150 feet away from the launcher. I had just untied her and was bringing her around when she locked up. I wasn't sure what to do. I started walking forward and when I got about even with her she tore ahead into a clump of grass about 30 feet in front of her. There was nothing there nor had any of the previous birds had been there, and the launcher was still at least 100 feet ahead of us. What do you think was going on here?

Anyways, I'm happy with the way things went.
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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by rinker » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:41 pm

She was getting 'sticky'. When you do a lot of bird work with a young dog they start to anticipate that there is going to be a bird behind every bush. They will also start to point launchers instead of birds. When I am doing a lot of bird work, I will keep changing things up. I will work the pup on birds one day, the next I might run her through an area where there are no birds. Some times I will put empty launchers out in a field and run the pup through it. When the pup points and I know that there is nothing there I just keep walking and ignore the pup. They will eventually come on.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by bonasa » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:48 pm

How old is the pup, have you hunted it, how long does it stand before you flush, what do you do at the flush and the dog do, are you holding the checkcord or is it dragging it, did you do yard work, had the pup caught a bird on the ground prior?

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by shags » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:00 pm

Dash_9 wrote:. I started walking forward and when I got about even with her she tore ahead into a clump of grass
When I read this part it sounded to me that you are walking up alongside your dog then (trying) to get in front. If so, you ought to change to coming in from the side as best you can. It takes a little more practice to use the cc at an angle but it's not hard to do. Coming up from behind for a flush tends to make the dog want to rush in; seems like they either want to help or get to get there first :lol: When you come in from the side that doesn't happen (as much 8) ) since you're physically and psychologically blocking them.

If you're already moving in from the side, disregard and carry on :lol:

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Dash_9 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:17 pm

bonasa wrote:How old is the pup, have you hunted it, how long does it stand before you flush, what do you do at the flush and the dog do, are you holding the checkcord or is it dragging it, did you do yard work, had the pup caught a bird on the ground prior?
She's 3 years old (only JUST started her on birds), never hunted. When she was on point today the couple of times, she stayed put until I started walking forward. It seemed as soon as she heard the crunch on footsteps she took off. I hold the cord. Sorry I'm a newbie here, whats yard work? She caught a clip winger the first time I "introduced" her to birds.

Rinker-
I see what your're saying, makes sense. The cover where I'm at here is rather thick, I suppose she may have caught the scent and figured that clump of grass in front of her was where it was at.

Shags- I will certainly try to do that next time. I was not coming up directly behind her, I was more "out and off to her right", either way I could definitely make more of a sideways approach

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by bonasa » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:11 pm

Dash,
Good stuff, lots of years ahead of you,great promising gun dog. I'd let her point and do what you do, but stand there. Sooner or later she will move and "bust" the birds. Let her see that her movement busts them, as of now when you get in the picture that is the cue to move up. Let her see and "bust" a few, smoke em if you got em as it could be a while. Then you are the gate keeper and when you get in front you bust the birds.

Yard work is "whoa" work. The dog stands either with a whoa command or silent command and you walk out front. Basically a command where you are in front and the dog stands until released by command or physical touch.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Donnytpburge » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Dash

Sounds like you are in business.

I have fought this battle many times.

Remember bird dogs are tough, mentally and
Physically. Sometimes they need PRESSURE
To achieve their full potential.

The reward for a solid point, held to the shot is a shot bird to retrieve, there
Has to be a punishment for rushing in and bumping
Birds. Some dogs get it quick, the hardheaded ones
Take a while.

It will happen just stay at it!

Db

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by campgsp » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:45 am

Dash_9 wrote: She's 3 years old (only JUST started her on birds), never hunted. When she was on point today the couple of times, she stayed put until I started walking forward. It seemed as soon as she heard the crunch on footsteps she took off. I hold the cord

. Sorry I'm a newbie here, whats yard work?
Yard work is obeidience training in the yard at home.

To me it sounds like you need to work on woah more. You should be able to walk in front of a dog and all the way around without him moving.
Go back work on woah in the yard and at different locations. Then go back to birds and proof it.
Jmo.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by bonasa » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:56 am

http://www.notssmbbs.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21037

Good free overview of west method.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by DonF » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:53 am

Coveyrise64 wrote:
ACooper wrote:.....I prefer to run my dogs on launchers with no checkcord. I start them as puppies popping birds for them, if they point great, if they don't that is okay also, I just launch the bird. I don't have access to tons of wild birds, but I do have access to launchers and pigeons and a place to train right out the back door.

If the pup gets to close to the launcher on the wrong side of wind I pop the bird, if they don't point I pop the bird, if they point and creep I pop the bird. etc etc etc.
Me too, except I do a little launcher intro around the yard first. Sure don't want to make a young dog launcher shy.

cr
Pretty much right there with you guy's. Only difference is I do have them drag a CC and I don't do launcher ontro in the yard. With a dog or pup just getting on the launcher the first time I just pop some birds well away from the dog. No reason the same thing couldn't happen in the yard. Kind of strange, I do everything except the launcher and bird intro in the yard! I have this theory that if you buy a bird dog put, shouldn't take much to get it to like birds. I've done it a couple time's or so years ago and seemed to me all I really accomplished was to turn the monster loose in the pup before I was ready to deal with it. My pup's intro to birds is "bleep" birds.

The statement about the pup on the wrong side of the bird blows my mind. I wasn't sure anyone else did that! But, that's what a wild bird will do! Seems to me a lot of people seem to think the dog they train will be better than the dog they teach. When your training your showing your dog how you want things to go. When you teach you set the dog up to figure out how to get what it wants. The dog trained to point a bird does it because that what the trainer wants. The dog that learned to point the bird does it because it knows that the thing that move's the bird, is it's own movement.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by Dash_9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:16 am

I'm following perfect start/perfect finish. They have you working on birds with your dog before you introduce "whoa". It seems to be popular opinion not to use "whoa" around birds, rather you let the bird do the teaching (in conjunction with the launcher)....at least that's what I have gathered. I have been working on her "heel" and at this point shes doing pretty good with it off cord, so I will introduce "whoa" to her shortly.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by ACooper » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:51 am

DonF wrote:
The statement about the pup on the wrong side of the bird blows my mind. I wasn't sure anyone else did that! But, that's what a wild bird will do! Seems to me a lot of people seem to think the dog they train will be better than the dog they teach. When your training your showing your dog how you want things to go. When you teach you set the dog up to figure out how to get what it wants. The dog trained to point a bird does it because that what the trainer wants. The dog that learned to point the bird does it because it knows that the thing that move's the bird, is it's own movement.
Yeah Don I am right with you and I agree 100% on the teach/train, I don't have access to tons of wild bird so I do my best to emulate them, it's not the same but it beats the heck out of leading a dog from bird to bird on a check cord in my opinion.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by DonF » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:28 pm

Dash_9 wrote:I'm following perfect start/perfect finish. They have you working on birds with your dog before you introduce "whoa". It seems to be popular opinion not to use "whoa" around birds, rather you let the bird do the teaching (in conjunction with the launcher)....at least that's what I have gathered. I have been working on her "heel" and at this point shes doing pretty good with it off cord, so I will introduce "whoa" to her shortly.
I do not whoa a dog on a bird but I do use whoa if it's needed. Whoa does not mean there's a bird, stop. It means only stop and stand still. You start whoaing your dog into a bird and you do change the meaning from stop and stand still to there's a bird. I also teach sit either before or while teaching whoa. Sit means sit, whoa means stop and stand still. If the dog is confused with the two, you have messed up your job.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by slistoe » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:53 pm

Dash_9 wrote:I'm following perfect start/perfect finish. They have you working on birds with your dog before you introduce "whoa". It seems to be popular opinion not to use "whoa" around birds, rather you let the bird do the teaching (in conjunction with the launcher)....at least that's what I have gathered. I have been working on her "heel" and at this point shes doing pretty good with it off cord, so I will introduce "whoa" to her shortly.
Unless you are trying to teach manners after the flush of the bird, whoa has no purpose for bird dog training.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by ultracarry » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:07 pm

Really? No purpose? Please explain? I would love to hear it.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by campgsp » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:17 pm

Dash_9 wrote:I'm following perfect start/perfect finish. They have you working on birds with your dog before you introduce "whoa". It seems to be popular opinion not to use "whoa" around birds, rather you let the bird do the teaching (in conjunction with the launcher)....at least that's what I have gathered. I have been working on her "heel" and at this point shes doing pretty good with it off cord, so I will introduce "whoa" to her shortly.
Dash
Your right.
I got ahead of myself in your training process. I was at steady to flush for some reason.. Dumb mistake.
My bad bud.
Keep it up with the launchers.
That cc will work better if your paying attention. Lol joking.
Some dogs take longer then others. Just be consistent and she'll get it.

As for woah on birds. In the method your using you will be woahing her on birds soon enough.
So the whole popular opinion is mute here.
Just letting you know if you don't.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by slistoe » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:49 pm

ultracarry wrote:Really? No purpose? Please explain? I would love to hear it.
In regards to pointing dogs and birds, what purpose does whoa serve prior to the flushing act?

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by ultracarry » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:59 pm

You were the one that made the comment.. I was just asking for an explanation .

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by slistoe » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:08 pm

ultracarry wrote:You were the one that made the comment.. I was just asking for an explanation .
Pointing dogs point. What more of an explanation do you want?

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by ultracarry » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:18 pm

Lol Ohhhh ok. Just wanted to see your reasoning why someone wouldn't need to say whoa (same as stay) to a dog.

FYI teaching a dog what whoa means doesn not necessarily mean the dog is whoa broke and steady through the shot. Every person can teach it to mean different things. Heck you can teach a dog to sit by saying stand and stand by saying sit. Didn't know it... Thank god I do now though . But it is helpful to stop a dog to put a leash on it or keep it out of trouble . But I'm sure you figured that out.

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Re: How long until your dog "got it" (birds, launcher)

Post by slistoe » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:50 pm

Teach whoa all you want, and use whoa every time you look at your dog if it makes you giggle. Telling your buddies male dog to whoa when he is peeing on a bush is good for a laugh.
As far as pointing dogs and birds are concerned, whoa is of no purpose unless you are trying to teach manners after the flush - which the vast majority of folks in the field don't really care about.
That is a pretty good idea about snapping a leash on them - probably beats the heck out of riding them down and lassoing the buggers.

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