Shaking off the e-collar

[Wilder]

I'm have a dog that I am training. The collar I have is a Garmen delta. The collar works well about 98% of the time, but the 2% it doesn't work for me is when the dog zeros in on another dog to play with or finds something particular digesting to eat. Then he will shake off the collar even on the highest setting. The dog situation is controllable as long as the other dog doesn't run over to play with him, then he will eventually break a down stay and he acts like he doesn't even feel the correction. The fact that he breaks it at all is the issue. It's dangerous because he totally zone's out and can be lead away.
He is so out of it that even laying down on the continuous doesn't affect him.
So I am not sure what to do. When I asked Garmen about a stronger collar for a harder correction they said there wasn't one. Not sure if this is true. I am open to buying a stronger collar if there is one.

At any other time, only low level reminders are needed. He obeys really well except when it comes to playing with other dogs. He is not neutered yet, although I am not sure that will help as this is about play drive vs sex drive. If I thought it would his nads would be gone tomorrow. But in all the years I've owned dogs, this type of behavior doesn't see affected by neutering.

I admit, I have never had a dog with this kind of pain tolerance and I am not sure how to correct this issue.
Yes, putting a leash on him would seem like the logical answer but I am training this dog off leash for a reason so just putting a leash on him is not a realistic solution to the problem. I did start him on leash though, but to be honest, leash training seemed to make him even more resistant. I was about to wash him out until his breeder told me to use the collar. He responds 100X better to the e-collar so I have hope for him again. Either way, I need to break this. Any ideas are welcomed. Thanks.

[Rick S]

Just a few suggestions, as I have a stubborn dog when around other dogs as well. These are only suggestions as I don't know where your dog is in training. First, I would check to make sure that the contact points on the collar are snug against the dogs neck. What have you done to properly teach your dog to respond appropriately to e collar pressure? What kind of dog do you have? I know the garmin deltas only have short contact points which may not work as well on longer haired dogs. If you can try to borrow a different brand collar to see if they're higher levels will work better on your dog, if none of the above are possible issues. I only recommend trying a different collar on a higher level if you truly believe that the delta is not strong enough. I don't recommend just slapping on a different collar on high if you haven't done all the proper steps in collar conditioning. If all else fails you might be best off going back to the check cord for a while and re introduce your dog to high distraction environments. Hope it works out!

[smittty]

WHAT KIND OF DOG ??? I have a hard time with contacts even with the long points try removing some of the fur on the under side of his neck and snug it up good and high

[Wilder]

This is a rottie. The collar is snug, the contacts are making contact. Yes the dog has been worked thoroughly before having the collar put on. The collar isn't malfunctioning. His muscles will jump when you correct him but it's like he doesn't even feel it. Personally, I've never seen a dog shake off a collar like this. His pain tolerance is through the roof. I've had him run full speed into a tree when out playing and just shake it off like he didn't even feel it.

[ultracarry]

It wouldn't shake off a tri tronics set on six..... Constant will stop it. Or try using it around the flank .

[shags]

Problems with your collar aside, you'd better be careful about frying your dog when it's interacting with another. You just may set up a reaction that will get one or both of them seriously hurt, not to mention injury to any humans who try to break up the fracas.

Maybe going back a few steps in training to reinforce the basics like your down/stay and recall would help.

Good luck to you.

[roaniecowpony]

Just my take on the Delta, I had one to test. It has roughly half the voltage of a Tritronics Pro when each are at their highest setting.

[Sharon]

Problems with your collar aside, you'd better be careful about frying your dog when it's interacting with another. You just may set up a reaction that will get one or both of them seriously hurt, not to mention injury to any humans who try to break up the fracas.

Maybe going back a few steps in training to reinforce the basics like your down/stay and recall would help.

Good luck to you.

Well said

[birddogger]

Problems with your collar aside, you'd better be careful about frying your dog when it's interacting with another. You just may set up a reaction that will get one or both of them seriously hurt, not to mention injury to any humans who try to break up the fracas.

Maybe going back a few steps in training to reinforce the basics like your down/stay and recall would help.

Good luck to you.

Well said

X2

Charlie

[Nutmeg247]

In terms of reinforcing your down-stay and recall, I think one dynamic to focus on is only gradually building the level of distraction, rather than going straight to 60 mph distraction-wise. For other dogs as a distraction, maybe see if you can engineer a situation where you work a down-stay and recall where only one calm dog that your dog already knows is present, before working on the same at a dog run.

I should be clear I am not a trainer and am on my first pointer myself. So, everything I say is from that context. e-Collar-wise, one thing I have read about and also experienced with my dog is that, as familiarity with the collar grows, for some dogs, mine included, they grow collar-tolerant, so if you rely predominantly on the collar you can end up needing higher and higher settings. With birds, you have a built-in reinforcer in that if the dog does what it's supposed to, it gets more access to birds than if it doesn't. For a down-stay, think about also engineering ways to always (or most of the time) make the dog feel there's a good outcome for staying put. E.g., if I (the dog) stay, then when I'm released I will get to play with that other dog, whereas if I break, I'll get crated immediately in addition to getting corrected by the collar.

[smoothbean]

I had an English Pointer that would run through collars when he really wanted to. Of course everyone to try their brand of collar. I borrowed several to use with the same results. I did have friend that was short a dog so I let him use this pointer for a season. He also had the same issue. Finally got him stopped with two tri tronics collars.
He was the same a lot of the time he would respond to low level stimulation but when he got it in his head he was going you could see him cock his head, grit his teeth and run til he was out of range.
Good Luck!!

[lugmastro]

I have a hard head that will run through a collar, at times. Whenever it happens, I stop using the collar and go straight for him. Once I have my hands on the dog, I put him on the check cord and we are done for the day. He will pay attention to the collar for quite awhile after I take birds away from him. I would just leash him up every time he breaks the collar, and remove him from the situation. Eventually he will figure it out. The more you put him in similar situations and remain consistent with your correction the quicker the problem will stop.

[Donnytpburge]

I have a grandson of honky tonk attitude that
Can take the pain! He was always perfect in training situations; but he
Would also bolt and start doing his on thing
In a hunting situation, very protective of his ground when
Other dogs were present, and would stop and just fight a dog
That got in his way.

I use sportdog 400's, I put one on his neck, one on his flank. It
Did not work, the dog would show no sign of discomfort
When full power was being administered!

I knew that I was losing control of this dog, so
I went "old school" on him. He
Still has the drive, and the attitude, but he
Now knows that the e- collar is not the only thing that can reach
Out and touch him!

He will shut down when I tell him 100% now.


IMO. You have to make the dog realize that you are the alpha! I'm not saying
That "old school " is the way to YOU should go about it, but it worked for my
Hardhead.

Db