A Couple of Poor Training Days in a Row

LeonStagg · Post by **LeonStagg** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:51 am

First off, I understand that dogs have off days just like we do. My 15 month old Large Munsterlander, has just never "taken a day off" before, much less two in a row.

That said, I suspect it is something I am missing, or causing. We had an upbeat, 30-45 minute session on Thursday, working on marked and a few blind retrieves. He was focused and energetic as usual. ( it was 55 degrees outside)

Friday evening and again this morning, we had a some focus and motivational shortcomings. (It had warmed up to 75-80 degrees, that's the only real environmental difference)

He is FF trained, e-collar trained, and normally very responsive, normally very few light stims.
(I have always used Jim Dobbs' Tri-Tronics Retriever Training as a primary program)

I was not introducing new exercises or challenges, just working on casting, initial lining etc.
It was probably just my tone, or posture.....I don't think he initiated it, I think he was responding to me. (He is my first LM,and is a little more sensitive than my Labs)

It's not a big deal, experienced this before, just not with him. I'm sure it will take care of itself, as long I maintain a consistent approach. Thoughts.......

Fun dog · Post by **Fun dog** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:49 pm

Is the dog feeling okay? A dog with a bug, even a small one won't perform as we'll.

LeonStagg · Post by **LeonStagg** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:01 pm

Seems to be feeling fine FD, good appetite, hydrated, moving well.
I am going to take him to a completely new place this evening to get in some light, upbeat work.
Thanks for the response, I will watch him close, as usual.

roaniecowpony · Post by **roaniecowpony** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:28 am

I've been keeping my sessions as short as possible. I may be out for a few hours at the training grounds, but most of that time the dog is kenneled while I set up launchers, or the backer, or just take breaks. That seems to keep my dog focused. In that few hours, my dog may only be on the ground for a few minutes for each session.

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:35 am

Take the dog for a run, give it a break from the routine. A break does dogs a lot of good at times

Mo

Sodey · Post by **Sodey** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:45 pm

Mo is right. Take a day off, and do something fun. Like a hike in the woods. Keep him obedient, but make it fun.

LeonStagg · Post by **LeonStagg** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:54 pm

Thanks folks,
I took him to a new place and went for a good long walk, no training, just exploring and letting him do "regular" dog stuff.

We also visited one of his favorite secluded swimming holes, he wore himself out having fun.

Like roanie suggested, I had already decided to shorten his sessions. He catches on quickly to new lessons and training exercises, I have to keep it fresh while still reinforcing the previously learned disciplines.

Thanks again for the input.

Fun dog · Post by **Fun dog** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:00 pm

The dog is a teenager. What did you expect?

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:20 pm

[quote="LeonStagg"]I am going to take him to a completely new place this evening to get in some light, upbeat work.
quote]

"Take the dog for a run, give it a break from the routine. A break does dogs a lot of good at times." Maurice

...........................

Both good posts.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:07 am

LeonStagg wrote:He is FF trained, e-collar trained, and normally very responsive, normally very few light stims. (I have always used Jim Dobbs' Tri-Tronics Retriever Training as a primary program)

Curious - when would those "very few light stims" be applied?

MG

LeonStagg · Post by **LeonStagg** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:43 am

I rarely have to use any stimulation, the collar is worn to reinforce a rare break in obedience, and for safety at this point.

He learned early to "turn off" light stimulation by compliance to the direction he was receiving. I do not use the momentary feature of the collar. I use the continuous stimulus, as quickly as he begins to comply with the command, the stimulus ceases, pretty simple really.
He avoids stimulation by quick compliance.

I use a Tritronics Pro 100 and he responds to a very low level of stimulation, setting #2 on the dial, low continuous button on the bottom.

Good question, especially in light of the way I worded the original post,I just don't think it is an issue here, there are lots of posts on that subject.

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:03 am

Thanks, Leon - here's the thing

LeonStagg wrote:He is FF trained, e-collar trained, and normally very responsive, normally very few light stims.
(I have always used Jim Dobbs' Tri-Tronics Retriever Training as a primary program)

I was not introducing new exercises or challenges, just working on casting, initial lining etc.
It was probably just my tone, or posture.....I don't think he initiated it, I think he was responding to me. (He is my first LM,and is a little more sensitive than my Labs)

- retriever training - which is what Dobbs' methods originally entailed - has greatly advanced use of the e-collar and the real advancing has come via indirect pressure, which is summed up in a word as the "nick" (momentary stimulation) method. Moreover, the biggest advances have been made in working with sensitive Labs, mostly females. With a Grosser Munsterlander, you've got what I would consider one of the more sensitive versatile breeds. So you might want to look into indirect pressure and its application.

How you're using the e-collar

LeonStagg wrote:I rarely have to use any stimulation, the collar is worn to reinforce a rare break in obedience, and for safety at this point.

is the preventive way favored by pointing dog trainers, not the proactive way the e-collar's used via indirect pressure on retrievers (and retrieving gundogs that are advanced in their training).

I'm amused by the pointing dog people telling you (and your dog) to take a day off. Retrievers don't take a day off from training, nor do they "need" one; they may have an off-day, as do all creatures great and small, but you the handler get right back on that horse at first opportunity - especially with casting and lining drills.

Good luck,

MG

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:09 am

MG could you expand on your comment about preventative vs proactive ecollar use

crackerd · Post by **crackerd** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:27 am

Sure, Bluesky, it's as simple as

...the collar is worn to reinforce a rare break in obedience, and for safety

for pointing dogs

vs.

a training program that centers around use of the e-collar in teaching, for retrievers (and retrieving gundogs trained to an advanced level).

MG

LeonStagg · Post by **LeonStagg** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:23 am

Thanks MG,
Good council and insight.

LeonStagg · Post by **LeonStagg** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:29 am

Here he is at 8 months on a mourning dove hunt.

LeonStagg · Post by **LeonStagg** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:33 am

His first waterfowl hunt at 11 months, Palacios TX. First duck of the season,Spoonbill retrieve.

DoubleBarrel GunDogs · Post by **DoubleBarrel GunDogs** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:03 pm

You may need to break your training sessions down into smaller parts. Dogs don't understand concepts very well.

Nate

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