Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

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CTPaul
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Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by CTPaul » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:36 am

After picking up my first GSP back 8 years ago I purchased the Training Your Pointing Dog dvd by Scott Miller. I've read and discussed with many of you about the importance of following a program and I'd be curious everyone's take on this DVD. Can I finish my dog using the methods in this dvd? I've watched it many times and while I believe it lays some good basics it seems to leave out much of the details. In addition I can't help but feel that his commands during whoa and come are inconsistent and confusing for the dogs. Yet I believe this man has had great success training and trialing. So, I'm throwing it out to you guys; can I follow this program (or is it even a program at all) and achieve a STWS dog?

The snow is starting to break up and once I get my hands on some birds within the next week the training will begin so I'm loaded with questions. This being the first.

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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by birddogger » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:24 am

I am not familiar with it but I believe you have answered your own question. My advise would be to go with a different program or find a mentor.

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Charlie
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birddogger
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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by birddogger » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:27 am

BTW, you are surely not talking about the dog from 8 yrs. ago are you?

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

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CTPaul
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Post by CTPaul » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:22 pm

Negative, lost him in December so I'm back to square one with a 7 month old setter

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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by slistoe » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:42 pm

How did you do training your old dog with this DVD?

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CTPaul
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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by CTPaul » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:13 am

I didn't follow this entirely with my first dog as I ended up attending a weekend seminar with a pro trainer here in CT. The dog could have been better but I made far too many mistakes along the way.

I was just curious what everyone who has watched it thought of this dvd.

Meller
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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by Meller » Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:59 am

Are you training with a helper or by yourself?

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CTPaul
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Post by CTPaul » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:22 am

I have a helper, but will be investing in a launcher this summer for those times when my helper is unavailable.

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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by madmurph » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:10 am

CT, I have this DVD and have watched it several times myself. Although one cannot question the credentials of Scott Miller as a trainer and handler, I think that this video, like many others, lacks in detail for a lesser experienced trainer to finish a dog. It is only 60 minutes long and some of it is occupied by talking about training equipment, choosing a puppy, etc. In my opinion, there are other videos that would serve you better.

The Perfect Start/Perfect Finish series is one. These videos follow a very detailed step by step process which includes proper use of e-collar for EACH step. The program does however, have more steps than others, as it takes small baby steps from one step to the next. This is a five DVD set that lasts for several hours and is therefore able to cover the entire proces in great detail.

The Hickox videos are also popular with many and would be worth checking out as well.
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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by Meller » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:54 am

I agree with Madmurph, there are DVDs that are a lot more informative; I like Maurice Lindly's book and DVD together, easy to understand and can be accomplished if you have no one to help, a lot of DVD's in my opinion require some assistance from a helper.

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Post by CTPaul » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:41 pm

Thanks. Times are tough so I'm trying to really pinch pennies. PsPf is just so expensive it keeps me away. I think I'll jump at the Training with Mo book. If it's just as effective for $25 I guess I can't go wrong.

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Post by CTPaul » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:13 pm

You also mentioned a Lindley DVD; where can I find the DVD?

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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by madmurph » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:23 pm

Mo Lindley has a semiar DVD recorded at Piney Run Kennel. It is quite informative. For the Mo DVD check Martha Greenlee's website: http://www.pineyrunkennel.com/store.php
Last edited by madmurph on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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CTPaul
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Post by CTPaul » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:39 pm

Thanks Murph

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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by Meller » Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:57 pm

I think you can get the book and DVD from Martha. (pinneyrunkennel.com/store)

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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by AzDoggin » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:23 pm

I like the Perfect Start/Finish DVD's too - very detailed, no missed steps. I know of one individual who used this system exclusively to train his dog of the year last year in the northwest region. You can't miss with PS/PF. Those DVD's are a 'stand alone' training system - no come-ons for you to attend a workshop in Mizzou.

That said, I'm a huge Mo Lindley fan. I like everything about him and his system. You have to scratch and dig a little to get all of the videos, etc., but the prices are very reasonable. Mo is in it for the love of dogs and training, nothing else. Martha Greenlee puts on Mo Lindley clinics annually, and they are very reasonably priced. What you will find with the "West System" folks (Westies) is that they are welcoming and want to share information and don't feel the need to get in your pocket for every little tidbit. There is a Yahoo discussion group for West System training (link on Martha's site). There are other related trainers that have resources (Brad Higgins, Dave Walker, both with websites, videos, etc.)

Here's a general overview of Mo's methods: http://touchstoneweimaraners.com/sws/fi ... manual.pdf

Bill West's "Teaching your Lab to point" is often referred to as one of the most central video's of the West system: It's on Dave Walker's website. I've not seen it - and it is very old school - but I've heard from several folks that this is a great starting place from the guy who started it all.

Martha has all kinds of free articles, etc, on her site. She's a great ambassador for Mo and his version of the West method: http://www.pineyrunkennel.com/booksandarticles.php Her "What's the Point?" ebook is outstanding (and free)!

The Huntsmith (Rick and Ronnie Smith) and the George Hickox DVD's are both great intros, but are not stand-alone programs, IMO. Both have missing pieces. To finish the job you started with either of these, you need to go to a workshop, so save your clams. The nice thing is that George and Rick Smith take it on the road every year, and put on workshops regionally so you don't have to travel as far. That way, you can spend that travel $$ on workshop fees. :D

All just my opinion. I'm sure others vary.

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CTPaul
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Post by CTPaul » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:07 pm

Good commentary on the different programs as there is far too many ways to spend cash so it's nice to have some input on what is most effective.

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Re: Training Your Pointing Dog: Scott Miller

Post by Cicada » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:36 pm

AzDoggin wrote: Martha has all kinds of free articles, etc, on her site. She's a great ambassador for Mo and his version of the West method: http://www.pineyrunkennel.com/booksandarticles.php Her "What's the Point?" ebook is outstanding (and free)!


All just my opinion. I'm sure others vary.
I just got one of her books gifted to me only, 50 pages in and I must say I like her writing style clear and to the point.

Grant

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