related to the "no e-collar" laws...

[mountaindogs]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/pe ... essed.html

So, this early in the AM I can not find that other post. :roll: sorry.

My opinion on this article is the following for those who care to read:
I use and agree with "positive" methods and clicker training. I think they encourage boldness and confidence and dog who thinks things through. BUT I also use correction if it's needed. With my children also. When safety to themselves or others around them is involved... Or a manners issue that is in, my opinion,inexcusable, I will use correction (hopefully mild, but the level depend on the dog and the situation.) We still add rewards for the good behavior when the dog chooses that over the previously corrected behavior. And keep in mind, "rewards" are anything the dog likes/wants. Birds, retrieving, play are all rewards. Treats too, but not only and most gun dogs find retrieving and birds MUCH higher value than treats so it's easy to make the switch. And then wean the rewards to random.... and so on... I will not include every step here.

So I feel that those who are extremists arguing for ONLY positive or NEVER positive are the ones who create the bad rap for both.

[birddog1968]

I've never ever heard anyone argue no positive....an attaboy and energetic rub on the head us one of the best positive reinforcements there is. I just don't fall into the treat line if thinking at all.

[Nutmeg247]

I actually don't get the idea that a clumsy trainer who uses positive reinforcement badly can't cause bad stress for the dog. As a sometimes-clumsy trainer of only my dog, I've been there and done that, with positive methods. (My shortcoming, I am not saying those methods have to be stressful.) Tough to legislate either competence or not being a jerk by looking at a type of collar or training method.

[roaniecowpony]

Dogs remember really good things and really bad things very well. A little nick for stealing a sandwich off the dinner table, will probably not deter fido then next time. You'll have to correct again and possibly again and again if the correction is small compared to the reward. Be quick and decisive and give corrections that are meaningful to the dog. ...now if I can just remember to follow this advice...LOL.