disobeying and reinforcement

[chrisss]

I am currently a a road block with training my 7 month DD. He knows his commands but when I transition it to the e collar he isn't obeying like he does on the check cord. For example when I put a check cord on him he obeys all commands with out applying pressure but when I take off the check cord and transition to the ecollar he disobeys and I can put the collar at a higher level but still no response from him. He been collar condition and just choses not to listen to the e collar. Any ideas on what to do?

[RichK]

Have you tried issuing the command while using the CC and e collar at the same time?

[birddogger]

Yeah, it sounds like you haven't transitioned to the e-collar properly and just dropped the CC and put the e-collar on. The dog doesn't have a clue.

Charlie

[whoadog]

Is the collar actually functioning properly?

[CTPaul]

Sounds like perhaps a step back may help out. My setter had a similar response to the ecollar. Instead of obeying the command he would stop on his tracks. It became clear that I had jumped the gun on the conditioning.

[Hoosierdaddy]

Is the collar actually functioning properly?

+1 on this.Is the collar on the dog properly.You say no response even when cranked up a bit.You should see some kind of response(ear twitch,muscle flex) even at a very low setting.

[Nutmeg247]

Definitely make sure the collar is working, and that it has a snug fit so that you get reliable stim and don't have the risk of arcing.

Assuming it is working and on properly, the fact the he is not doing anything even at a higher level means, to me, your dog is actually just shutting down because it hasn't been introduced to the collar properly. Basically he's afraid to do anything, and doesn't understand yet that he can control the collar, more or less, by demonstrating desired behavior. So, if the collar is working, I'd have him wear it but not use it at all for a while, and then go back to transitioning at the lowest level of stim you get any reaction from.

[RayGubernat]

It is impossible to say for sure, but it certainly sounds like the dog has not connected the dots as far as the e-collar cue is concerned. I absolutely would not increase the stim level because all that will likely do is to condition the dog to higher and higher stim levels...and that ain't good.

The previous poster who said their dog just froze, gave a more common response to the e-collar from an incompletely transitioned dog. It may be that your dog is also showing confusion, but in a different way. I seriously doubt that a six month old bird dog pup is being stubborn or willful. DD's can be pretty stoic I think, but it serves no purpose to channel that stoicism toward ignoring the e stim.

In any case, it is apparent that the dog is not doing what you want without the checkcord on. If it were my dog, I would forget about the e-collar for now and concentrate on yardwork with a checkcord, with the goal of having the dog do the typical obedience behaviors heel, whoa, come, kennel, fetch, etc...with NO checkcord and no collar. When the dog is doing those behaviors cheerfully, happily and with enthusiasm...with NO checkcord and no prong or pinch collar and no e-collar...THEN you can proceed.

Always remember...you are on the DOG'S schedule. When the dog shows you they are ready...that is when they are ready. OUR schedule is irrelevant. OUR expectations of where a dog should be at any particular point in time is irrelevant. It is where the dog thinks it is that matters.

A six or seven moth old puppy is still just that...a puppy. Some dogs are still puppies at twice that age.

Messing with dogs is supposed to be fun. Try not to make it into a struggle. Keep it fun for both of you. Train a bit....play some then train a bit more. Quit with the dog wanting more. If things are not going well, don't fight it... do something else. When the dog WANTS to do what you want it to do, good things happen. Happy dogs want to do what you want them to do...not because they HAVE to...but because it makes you happy.

RayG

[Del Lolo]

"Pressure" needs to be significant enough to make a change in behavior.
If the ecollar isn't making a change in behavior, you are just 'nagging' the dog -- you need to crank up the pressure.

[Chukar12]

Do not crank up the pressure. Go back to earlier steps in training repetitions in short intervals and end on positive note...something the dog knows cold. Unless you are a pro on a time schedule forcing the e-collar is a bad idea...I for one am not that good. When the dog responds to simple commands off lead go back to thee-collar overlay, this dog is too immature for mistakes in correction, you have months before you could gauge out and out refusal in this dog.

[Nutmeg247]

...

The previous poster who said their dog just froze, gave a more common response to the e-collar from an incompletely transitioned dog. It may be that your dog is also showing confusion, but in a different way. I seriously doubt that a six month old bird dog pup is being stubborn or willful. DD's can be pretty stoic I think, but it serves no purpose to channel that stoicism toward ignoring the e stim....
RayG

I had somehow read into the O.P.'s post that the dog was freezing, when in fact he didn't say that. Sorry!

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

Yeah, it sounds like you haven't transitioned to the e-collar properly and just dropped the CC and put the e-collar on. The dog doesn't have a clue.

Charlie

+1. Dogs don't understand concepts very well. Overlay the collar.

Nate

[birddog1968]

+100 to chukar12's post.

[gonehuntin']

You can't just take the check cord off and put the collar on and expect the same response. As others have said keep the check cord on the dog, cue the dog with the check cord, and Overlay the command with the collar when you tap the dog with the check court. He has to connect the two together.

[Sharon]

Yeah, it sounds like you haven't transitioned to the e-collar properly and just dropped the CC and put the e-collar on. The dog doesn't have a clue.

Charlie

x2

[whoadog]

You can't just take the check cord off and put the collar on and expect the same response.

I surprised that more people don't see the cc and collar as the same thing and put them on at the same time. From the first session, my pups are wearing both an e-collar(turned off) and a cc. It just makes more sense to me.