Eating birds

Uplandish · Post by **Uplandish** » Tue May 06, 2014 10:51 am

I picked up some pen raised chukars to work my rescue setter with over the weekend so we both could blow off some steam. After I shot the birds he went in to retrieve and came back as pretty as you please but I'll be "bleep" if he wasn't trying to eat them on the way back. It didn't look like he was chewing them, but rather trying to swallow them whole- and thats a lot to swallow! I would have to pry his jaw open to get the bird out.

Now heres the thing, he is a brilliant natural retriever, he has retrieved wild and pen raised pheasants as daintily as anyone could want. He has retrieved grouse and WILD chukars as well with out any indication of wanting to eat them. He has also made some pretty amazing long distance and blind retrieves. He will retrieve pigeons and quail with no problems but it just seems like he has a mean hankering for pen raised chukar. I have not introduced him to pen raised quail yet.

His previous owner had sent him off to a couple different trainers and no one had ever asked him to retrieve before I got my hands on him. Im wondering if maybe one of his previous trainers gave him a piece of the bird ( Im guessing chukar) as a reward? Do people still do this?

To me the obvious solution is keep him away from pen raised chukars, but I am also wondering if this could evolve into another sort of problem down the road.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Tue May 06, 2014 6:02 pm

Force fetch him before it becomes a real problem. There is a reason that nearly all field trial dogs that are requried to retrieve are FF,ed, it removes all options.

However mouthing a bird is a long way from eating it, some of those that seemed to be chewing up a bird retrieved it whole. Those that are going to actually eat it, usually stop. So work on a sharp recall. Few can swalow if on the move.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Tue May 06, 2014 6:10 pm

Its likely that the human scent on the pen raised birds is adding to the problem.

Uplandish · Post by **Uplandish** » Tue May 06, 2014 10:24 pm

Neil wrote:Force fetch him before it becomes a real problem. There is a reason that nearly all field trial dogs that are requried to retrieve are FF,ed, it removes all options.

However mouthing a bird is a long way from eating it, some of those that seemed to be chewing up a bird retrieved it whole. Those that are going to actually eat it, usually stop. So work on a sharp recall. Few can swalow if on the move.

His recall (even with birds he is trying to devour) is as sharp as it can get, he comes straight to me, but while in transit he is deep throating the bird and working his jaw as if he wants to swallow it whole. He even presents it to my hands but just doesn't want to give it up.

please explain how FF will help with this, as I am not terribly familiar with the benefits of FF.

I might reiterate that I have had him for a couple years now with zero problems with him retrieving anything besides this one exception with the pen raised chukars.

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:08 am

Increase its feeding intake. Sounds hungry, honestly. Thanks Jonesy

Nutmeg247 · Post by **Nutmeg247** » Thu May 08, 2014 12:24 pm

[quote="Uplandish"]...
His recall (even with birds he is trying to devour) is as sharp as it can get, he comes straight to me, but while in transit he is deep throating the bird and working his jaw as if he wants to swallow it whole. He even presents it to my hands but just doesn't want to give it up.

...[quote]

Is he actually crushing the bird's ribs, or were the feathers and/or skin just a little mussed? If he is truly trying to swallow it, the ribs should be in by the time he gets back, or at very least the chest or abdomen open.

Sorry to be so literal. I agree not wanting to drop the bird is a problem regardless. I also agree that most dogs can't eat and run at the same time. If you don't want to force-fetch, I believe you could also address this simply with dead bird retrieving work, before it becomes more of a generalized problem (even assuming the pen-raised chukar were a partial cause, I do think he's likely to generalize the behavior to other birds).

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Thu May 08, 2014 1:47 pm

FF will cure the problem, it takes all the options away. Do a search for details, I do not think you should try it yourself.

If he has not yet swallowed a bird, he is just mouthing them. If the recall is as good as you say, just pick him up by the loose skin on his flank, he will drop it.

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Thu May 08, 2014 6:22 pm

That's an odd sort of problem. If he isn't doing the same thing with pen reared pheasants or with pigeons with human hand scent on them, why is he doing this with pen reared chukars ? A partial F.F. with no actual "force" used might help. By that I mean you sitting down with the dog right in front of you and getting a game of " take-give-take-give" going with him.
Some dogs are less inclined to be possessive of retrieves when they think they will be given it back again. I'd begin with some bird other than a chukar and sort of work up slowly to using chukars for the "game." A fully trained F.F. would probably work too but I don't know enough about that to make any useful contribution.

Bill T.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Mon May 12, 2014 1:39 pm

tailcrackin wrote:Increase its feeding intake. Sounds hungry, honestly. Thanks Jonesy

+1

This cured our #1 GSP of the "bird munching habit". On days when we know he'll be retrieving we give him about 1/2 his morning ration of food about 1 hr before he'll be going into the field. Keeps his energy level up & keeps him from eating the bird. And yes, he'd been FF'd.

In fact, if we know the boys are in for a long day in the field, we always try to give them part or all of their morning feed. But we do this at least an hour before they hit the field to help prevent bloat.

FWIW,

Uplandish · Post by **Uplandish** » Fri May 16, 2014 7:41 pm

Im pretty sure lack of food isn't the culprit.

I have nagging suspicion that the trainers that "worked" with him before i got him, gave this dog a piece of bird (im betting a pen raised chukar) as a reward instead of letting him retrieve.

as far as force fetch goes how is that going to stop him from trying to swallow the bird on his way back to me? I understand it will help with him releasing the but if he swallows it or chokes on it on the way to me I don't think it will do much good.

we went out again the other day and same as before, I shot the bird he ran out to pick it up and on his way back nearly got the whole thing down his gullet. no chewing no tearing no stopping along the way just gulping and moving. he came right too me and kept trying to swallow as I pried the bird out of his jaws which were clamped down pretty hard.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:20 pm

You really have a tough one here. There is no honest trainer out there that will guarantee to you that they can cure a bird eater. A lot of dogs have been sent to the bone yard because they committed the second greatest sin a bird dog can commit: eating the bird he's been bred to pursue. The greatest crime is to bite the trainer.

I don't think you ever actually cure a bird eater, once he's confirmed, but sometimes they can be controlled. The first step to this is to force fetch. Why does it work? First, you control the movement of the dog's jaws. Second, you develop in the dog a tremendous respect for the trainer. Third, you de-bolt him and give him a fast reterieve. Many times when a dog eats birds it's because he has TIME to. If he comes back to you on the run, he doesn't. I won't tolerate or live with a bird eater. I neuter the dog and give it away as a pet or destroy it. It is a gene that should never be tolerated or perpetuated.

In general it's a job for a pro, a darn good one that has handled the problem. Very few amateurs can cure or control the problem.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:24 pm

Part of FF is "hold", trained properly there is no movement of the jaws upto the drop command.

We can only give advice, you can take it or argue, up to you.

Seems to me he has yet to eat a bird, he just almost does. FF will take the almost away.

Uplandish · Post by **Uplandish** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:28 pm

Neil wrote:Part of FF is "hold", trained properly there is no movement of the jaws upto the drop command.

We can only give advice, you can take it or argue, up to you.

Seems to me he has yet to eat a bird, he just almost does. FF will take the almost away.

Hey there Im not arguing with anyone pal, nor do I wish to. I just had a few concerns about force with my particular problem, and you answered them.

Previously I wasn't aware that FF controlled the dogs Jaw positioning and now that you have explained it I can see how FF would definitely help, sorry if I came off argumentative.

Uplandish · Post by **Uplandish** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:34 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:You really have a tough one here. There is no honest trainer out there that will guarantee to you that they can cure a bird eater. A lot of dogs have been sent to the bone yard because they committed the second greatest sin a bird dog can commit: eating the bird he's been bred to pursue. The greatest crime is to bite the trainer.

I don't think you ever actually cure a bird eater, once he's confirmed,

In my OP I mentioned he only commits this sin with pen raised chukars, he has retrieved numerous wild birds and pen raised pheasants with a soft mouth.

Which makes me wonder if this is a problem that can occur when trainers give parts of the birds to eat as a reward instead of allowing the dog to retrieve - before I got him he was never allowed to retrieve- if this was the case and he is accustomed to eating pen raised chukar it only makes sense that he thinks he is supposed to?

Does anyone still train by giving part of the bird to the dog as a reward? or is this too old school?

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sat May 17, 2014 4:42 am

I have never given dogs parts of the birds they have just retrieved. I haven't seen any sense in doing that, I have heard of it being done but have never met anyone who does it.

What would your dog do if you gave him a deep frozen chukar to retrieve ? Maybe if he didn't try to eat that you could work backwards .....deep frozen....partly thawed....more thawed.....fresh ?

Bill T.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat May 17, 2014 6:03 am

Uplandish wrote:
In my OP I mentioned he only commits this sin with pen raised chukars, he has retrieved numerous wild birds and pen raised pheasants with a soft mouth.

Usually if they eat one bird, they'll eat another. He may be just starting.

Uplandish wrote:Which makes me wonder if this is a problem that can occur when trainers give parts of the birds to eat as a reward instead of allowing the dog to retrieve - before I got him he was never allowed to retrieve- if this was the case and he is accustomed to eating pen raised chukar it only makes sense that he thinks he is supposed to?

I never give any part of the bird to a dog to eat, never have, never will. I think it total insanity. There are trainers that do though and with no ill effect. No one is idiot enough to give them the whole bird though, just the head. The dog couldn't have been accustomed to eating whole birds; the owners would have had to been total idiots to do that. I think you have probably misunderstood his training.

Does anyone still train by giving part of the bird to the dog as a reward? or is this too old school?

[/quote]

Uplandish · Post by **Uplandish** » Sat May 17, 2014 1:31 pm

gonehuntin' wrote: I never give any part of the bird to a dog to eat, never have, never will. I think it total insanity. There are trainers that do though and with no ill effect. No one is idiot enough to give them the whole bird though, just the head. The dog couldn't have been accustomed to eating whole birds; the owners would have had to been total idiots to do that. I think you have probably misunderstood his training.

Does anyone still train by giving part of the bird to the dog as a reward? or is this too old school?

[/quote]

I agree completely.

I believe RJ Marquart trains by giving the dog a bird leg for reward. I think he only does this with field trial dogs that are not required to retrieve in the first place. I know of a couple other WA guys that do this too.

I think/guess he is trying to swallow the bird whole because he has just been given a leg or a head to eat in the past, something small enough to swallow in a gulp, which may explain why he isn't chewing the bird and just trying to swallow the thing whole. But this is completely speculation on my part.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:12 pm

Uplandish wrote:
His previous owner had sent him off to a couple different trainers and no one had ever asked him to retrieve before I got my hands on him.

To me the obvious solution is keep him away from pen raised chukars, but I am also wondering if this could evolve into another sort of problem down the road.

Short answer is ......Ask them??
The Red herring of feeding part of the bird is ...........well........? I'll get banned

Longer answer is ...A retrieve is a retrieve is a retrieve!..Teach the whole thing and the dog (no-matter the breed) will retrieve anything!

Swampbilly · Post by **Swampbilly** » Sun May 18, 2014 12:49 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:You really have a tough one here. There is no honest trainer out there that will guarantee to you that they can cure a bird eater. A lot of dogs have been sent to the bone yard because they committed the second greatest sin a bird dog can commit: eating the bird he's been bred to pursue. The greatest crime is to bite the trainer.

I don't think you ever actually cure a bird eater, once he's confirmed, but sometimes they can be controlled. The first step to this is to force fetch. Why does it work? First, you control the movement of the dog's jaws. Second, you develop in the dog a tremendous respect for the trainer. Third, you de-bolt him and give him a fast reterieve. Many times when a dog eats birds it's because he has TIME to .

DING DING DING DING DING!...

Lots of our retrieving critters have a burning desire to swallow or taste a nice fresh meaty morsel down, and will if you give the dog enough free time. 'Ya have to give the dog some consistent , specific "instructions" on what it's supposed to do with a juicy warm morsel in it's mouth.

An expedient return with a bird to one person can differ quite a bit from the expectations on a return of another. You simply don't give the dog the time to sniff the daisies, urinate on a bush, and lollygag back on a return..period.

Uplandish · Post by **Uplandish** » Mon May 19, 2014 1:34 pm

Swampbilly wrote: DING DING DING DING DING!...
Lots of our retrieving critters have a burning desire to swallow or taste a nice fresh meaty morsel down, and will if you give the dog enough free time. 'Ya have to give the dog some consistent , specific "instructions" on what it's supposed to do with a juicy warm morsel in it's mouth.

An expedient return with a bird to one person can differ quite a bit from the expectations on a return of another. You simply don't give the dog the time to sniff the daisies, urinate on a bush, and lollygag back on a return..period.

Thats just it. He doesn't waste a second bringing the bird back. he doesn't fuss with it when first picking it up. he just grabs it and hauls "bleep" back to me... swallowing the whole way.

I took him out last weekend with the variety pack. Shot another pen raised chukar over him and got the same old chit. shot two hen pheasants and tiny roller pigeon over him and he handled them daintily and didn't hesitate to release them from his mouth when I grabbed the birds.

To me this supports my theory that he was given chukar as a training treat.

I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions, I think FF will surely help but paying a pro to do it this summer isn't in the cards and I don't feel competent enough to do it myself.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon May 19, 2014 8:07 pm

OK, I am very confused, now you say he is swallowing the whole way back, early he was mouthing and trying to swallow, which is it? Has he ever eaten a bird? If not, why do you care? I am stumped.

Most pros will FF a dog for 4 or 5 hundred, if this is really a problem and not just a way to have a conversation, it is worth it.

If I know the cure I don't concern myself with the cause. It does not matter if he is crunching birds because he was fed them or because his mother weaned him too young, you just need to know what to do to correct it.

Swampbilly · Post by **Swampbilly** » Mon May 19, 2014 8:11 pm

Does sound rather odd on that Uplandish, hard to say.

Am in the FF' camp as with others on here as an Rx, however if the dog was already properly FF'd and collar trained, you might could get a perfectly timed correction in to HERE on a return the millisecond the dog starts to show signs of inhaling the bird.
Enough of the hypothetical situations

If it were me and didn't want to FF', I'd give the dog a shot flyer, keep the dog on the line, walk out, pick it up yourself, and give pup a HOLD lesson right then and there . Ask the dog to carry the bird at HEEL beside you and go for a short walk. Not all birds "belong" to the dog anyway.
Make proper corrections if he tries to swallow it, but don't sour the dog on birds with too harsh a correction with bird in it's mouth.

Uplandish · Post by **Uplandish** » Mon May 19, 2014 10:39 pm

Swampbilly wrote:Does sound rather odd on that Uplandish, hard to say.

Am in the FF' camp as with others on here as an Rx, however if the dog was already properly FF'd and collar trained, you might could get a perfectly timed correction in to HERE on a return the millisecond the dog starts to show signs of inhaling the bird.
Enough of the hypothetical situations
If it were me and didn't want to FF', I'd give the dog a shot flyer, keep the dog on the line, walk out, pick it up yourself, and give pup a HOLD lesson right then and there . Ask the dog to carry the bird at HEEL beside you and go for a short walk. Not all birds "belong" to the dog anyway.
Make proper corrections if he tries to swallow it, but don't sour the dog on birds with too harsh a correction with bird in it's mouth.

Thanks swampbilly, that sounds like a possible solution.

Neil wrote:OK, I am very confused, now you say he is swallowing the whole way back, early he was mouthing and trying to swallow, which is it? Has he ever eaten a bird? If not, why do you care? I am stumped.

Most pros will FF a dog for 4 or 5 hundred, if this is really a problem and not just a way to have a conversation, it is worth it.

If I know the cure I don't concern myself with the cause. It does not matter if he is crunching birds because he was fed them or because his mother weaned him too young, you just need to know what to do to correct it.

Neil
he was mouthing / working his jaw/chewing while trying to swallow. he never dropped it and played with it he just worked his jaw while trying to swallow. Its kinda hard to describe since I have never seen a dog do anything like this before. Imagine a snake with a rat.
he has never eaten a bird but he has never been given the opportunity either. Im pretty sure with these chukars he would eat them.

Like I said a pro isn't in the cards for me right now, that is why I am asking for other solutions or perspectives. maybe someone else has encountered this particular problem and just haven't opened the thread yet?
Whats the harm in getting other's opinions and thoughts?

Why do I care? why wouldn't I?

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Tue May 20, 2014 2:46 am

Can't swallow a goose ! and if the chukar went POP! !!! This one sounds like it's a keen retriever and FF has been done ,it won't put it off

dsmtsi · Post by **dsmtsi** » Tue May 20, 2014 3:30 pm

I give my dogs chunks of breast meat from a shot up bird. Never had one try to eat a bird because of it.

GRP · Post by **GRP** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:35 am

I had a setter years ago that would eat a quail. She would only eat only one in the afternoon , I guess she got hungry. It was not a problem with grouse or pheasants. Buy a couple pheasants, see if the problem persists. You can try a second chucker, she may eat just one. Dogs are goofy sometimes

skeetermc · Post by **skeetermc** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:26 pm

I would definantly try to teach the dog the "hold" command. I would start with bumpers and then add wings to the dummy. Once he is holding what ever you put in his mouth move to fresh dead pigeons.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:00 pm

A simple solution is do not use pen raised chukar for training or hunting. Quick, easy, and cheap!

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:16 pm

ezzy333 wrote:A simple solution is do not use pen raised chukar for training or hunting. Quick, easy, and cheap!

Maybe its his easiest bird to get?...

Train the dog to handle how you want and not let the dog decide what it does..Thats why its called training.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:48 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:A simple solution is do not use pen raised chukar for training or hunting. Quick, easy, and cheap!
Maybe its his easiest bird to get?...

Train the dog to handle how you want and not let the dog decide what it does..Thats why its called training.

Are you sure? I have always thought there were many ways to train

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:57 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:A simple solution is do not use pen raised chukar for training or hunting. Quick, easy, and cheap!
Maybe its his easiest bird to get?...

Train the dog to handle how you want and not let the dog decide what it does..Thats why its called training.
Are you sure? I have always thought there were many ways to train

I agree with on that but Im still not tossing Cheetos. Lol

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:53 pm

That's too bad , because Cheetos work great.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:00 pm

Sharon wrote:That's too bad , because Cheetos work great.

I am sincerely glad it works for you. I just love Cheetos too much to toss in the water.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:57 am

Uplandish, now you have me a little confused here. Has he EATEN a chukar or not?. If he is simply working his jaws on the bird and mouthing it on the way in, that is NOT eating a bird and is an entirely different matter. I have never seen a dog able to actually swallow a bird on the way in with it unless he stops to do it. So exactly what is the case here?

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:50 am

WOW...I can tell I'm not on a Vdog forum. FF the dog...forget the tricks or putting catsup on the first bird of the day. When we are done with FF, dogs will retrieve a thrown hot dog....and get an occasional treat, of course.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:52 pm

I've got some time now, so let me break this down for you. A dog that is a bird eater, actually stops, tears the bird apart, and eats it. Your dog is not doing that. It is "mouthing" the bird. Big difference. Some dogs that mouth birds are actually "loose mouthed"; they never actually hurt the bird, just work their jaws up and down on it. When he brings the chukar back are there tooth marks on the breast? If you don't know, skin one out and see.

It's a tough habit to break, don't let anyone tell you it isn't. The cure starts with a prompt return. No matter what the dog is doing, when you command HERE, he kicks dust getting back to you. Obedience is the key to proper dog behavior. If you haven't done a de-bolt on him, then FF probably won't work either. If his return is beyond reproach, the step two is FF. If you're doing it yourself, Evan's program is the best I've seen. The most important part of the program will be the control of the dog's jaws, both sitting and moving. For you, that may be the entire program.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:37 am

gonehuntin' wrote:I've got some time now, so let me break this down for you. A dog that is a bird eater, actually stops, tears the bird apart, and eats it. Your dog is not doing that. It is "mouthing" the bird. Big difference. Some dogs that mouth birds are actually "loose mouthed"; they never actually hurt the bird, just work their jaws up and down on it. When he brings the chukar back are there tooth marks on the breast? If you don't know, skin one out and see.

It's a tough habit to break, don't let anyone tell you it isn't. The cure starts with a prompt return. No matter what the dog is doing, when you command HERE, he kicks dust getting back to you. Obedience is the key to proper dog behavior. If you haven't done a de-bolt on him, then FF probably won't work either. If his return is beyond reproach, the step two is FF. If you're doing it yourself, Evan's program is the best I've seen. The most important part of the program will be the control of the dog's jaws, both sitting and moving. For you, that may be the entire program.

Truth here.

Soarer31 · Post by **Soarer31** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:05 pm

All the dogs I've had were natural retrievers ( playing fetch from a pup ) but I had one that developed " mouthing" , so I FF him , in addition to that , I had him take the bird from my hand with the "fetch "command , then with the "hold "commend I feeled him with a choke chain , when he started to roll the bird in his mouth I jerked the chain and said "hold"!! With a firm voice and continued walking, I did that throughout the summer and it worked for this dog,

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:28 am

my dog small munsterlander just hit 2 years old.
today he took a bird wing and started to eat it.
i went to take it from his mouth and he growled and put his ears back and showed his teeth.
i was not happy and said DROP IT.
but he did not and i had hardtime getting wing out of his mouth.
i thought i was going to get bit.
first time he got this agrresive usually he growls a little and drops it.

any suggestions what to do now/

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:21 pm

FF him Jim. See above posts.

Uplandish · Post by **Uplandish** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:37 pm

Oops didn't see this till just now.
Thanks Gonehuntin'

we are currently working on FF per everyones suggestions. I will post an update further down the road.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:47 am

my small munsterlander will not swallow birds but does chew on them.
a rabbit he will swallow it.

i try to open his mouth on rabbit but his jaws are tough to open up.
anyway to get those jaws to open?
i tried pulling them apart and it does not work..... :roll:

41magsnub · Post by **41magsnub** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:13 pm

Assuming the mouth is open a little bit, press the dogs lower lip downward onto a tooth.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:38 pm

Uplandish wrote:I picked up some pen raised chukars to work my rescue setter with over the weekend so we both could blow off some steam. After I shot the birds he went in to retrieve and came back as pretty as you please but I'll be "bleep" if he wasn't trying to eat them on the way back. It didn't look like he was chewing them, but rather trying to swallow them whole- and thats a lot to swallow! I would have to pry his jaw open to get the bird out.

Now heres the thing, he is a brilliant natural retriever, he has retrieved wild and pen raised pheasants as daintily as anyone could want. He has retrieved grouse and WILD chukars as well with out any indication of wanting to eat them. He has also made some pretty amazing long distance and blind retrieves. He will retrieve pigeons and quail with no problems but it just seems like he has a mean hankering for pen raised chukar. I have not introduced him to pen raised quail yet.

His previous owner had sent him off to a couple different trainers and no one had ever asked him to retrieve before I got my hands on him. Im wondering if maybe one of his previous trainers gave him a piece of the bird ( Im guessing chukar) as a reward? Do people still do this?

To me the obvious solution is keep him away from pen raised chukars, but I am also wondering if this could evolve into another sort of problem down the road.

I had a Gsp once that chewed on birds badly the only remedy was a piece of wood with nails in it cut off tied a wing or two with a cable tie and not cutting them short leaving an inch or so. Frozen birds coveted with wire mesh also worked for training purposes these methods helped him understand to handle the birds withh care.

Hope you can sort your problem out and remember to have fun