planting pigeons for a flusher

[Huntumup]

I am having trouble with my lab flushing the pigeon and the bird just staying there for her to pick up or i set the pigeon down and it fly away. I am wondering if a harness will work or is it more trouble then its worth. Right now a launcher is out of my price range.

[gundogguy]

Is this what you are trying to accomplish?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeWAU_4mKuk

[mm]

My nephew has a nice lab and he was to fast for planted pigeons so he puts them in a launcher. I don't know labs or flushing but what harm does it cause to them if they catch birds?
mm

[Doc E]

Maybe you aren't dizzying them enough. Maybe you are dizzying them too much.
Planting pigeons is an art.
For the the flying off problem, the best way is to "Card" them.

.

[chrokeva]

I hate to be such a novice but could you please explain what "Card" them means?
Thank you!

[DonF]

I wouldn't touch a launcher or cards. What difference does it make if a flusher catches a pigeon? If you pop them out, what do you think your teaching? what your teaching is that the dog can't catch the bird! Tend to soften the flush or create a blinker. Let the dog catch every one of them and he will know he can catch them and he'll try with a wild bird. I doubt he's gonna catch a wild bird but not catching it will tend to make him try harder, after all he knows he can catch birds. Of course when it happens with the wild bird, you shoot the bird for him! So the dog pushes the bird hard trying to catch it, can't catch it but you shoot it for him and he get's what he wants in the first place, the bird. Another draw back to the launcher is your really need to let the dog know it's supposed to flush the bird. Launcher could do that but you run the risk of zapping your dog with the launcher. Take the pigeons and hold them upside down. Spin them in a small circle until they are good and dizzy, look at the eyes and head. The eye's will be blinking and the head will look like it's attached with a rubber neck. Now take and throw the bird into some good cover. don't kill it but try to knock the wind out of it and very important, good cover. The bird will stay where for up to 10 min and gives you time to get your dog on it. go get your dog and by the time you get back and to the bird it will probably be up and walking around and probably won't let the dog catch it. Word of caution, if the dog does get the bird flushed, shoot the bird! You don't want to make the dog think the team method isn't gonna work. It will go soft, soft flush and may start blinking, hesitating before flushing or even leaving the bird. Teach your dog to catch the bird and you shoot the one's it can't catch.

[sdsujacks]

I doubt he's gonna catch a wild bird but not catching it will tend to make him try harder, after all he knows he can catch birds.

Never say never, my lab is 2 and he has caught a handful of wild South Dakota pheasants each of the last 2 years. 3 Roosters and about 6 hens, most of all are late season when they are holding very tight under a brush/snow pile. He's also pulled out a few tail feathers as he barely missed catching them.

[DonF]

That would be the exception, not the rule. I had a dog years ago that caught a wild bird also. The exception.

[gundogguy]

Is this what you are trying to accomplish?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeWAU_4mKuk

Guys I wish that properly planting pigeons for a flushing dog of any stripe was a mathematical equation but it is not.
It is a touchy feely art form and it take many birds over a long period of time to actually learn how to pre-plant for a training session, let alone for a spaniel trial. I have been planting birds for almost 40 yrs now in training Labs and spaniels and in trialing of spaniels. But I could not write about it and feel that have given any insights that would helpful in the artform of pigeon planting. Pheasants chukars Hungarian partridge, quail are a piece of cake, pigeons can and are a mystery for most folks to plant properly
I'm still not sure what the original poser "Huntumup" was concerned about, does he want a flush or does he want his dog to "catch the bird", which by the way over time should lead to a bolder flush.

[Huntumup]

I want to put her in a hunting situation flush, shoot, retrieve. Im asking more of the flush. I have had her on live birds multiple times and am not worried about her blinking on the flush.

[gundogguy]

I want to put her in a hunting situation flush, shoot, retrieve. Im asking more of the flush. I have had her on live birds multiple times and am not worried about her blinking on the flush.

Thanks for the clarity. You need to find some one that is field training spaniels or cockers in your locale. As I have stated before proper planting of a pigeon is an acquired talent!. Depending on weather it has been very rainy here of late it'll try to video the process, during training.

[Doc E]

You need to find some one that is field training spaniels or cockers in your locale.

I agree 100%.
There are NO folks better at planting birds than Spaniel people.

.

[welsh]

I won't try to explain how to dizzy a pigeon. Best learned directly from someone who's good at it. But I will add that launchers and harnesses and so on are more likely to create problems than solve them when dealing with a flusher. Particularly launchers -- nothing like having a bird thrown into your face with a sudden "sproingg!" to slow down your flush.

[gundogguy]

I won't try to explain how to dizzy a pigeon. Best learned directly from someone who's good at it. But I will add that launchers and harnesses and so on are more likely to create problems than solve them when dealing with a flusher. Particularly launchers -- nothing like having a bird thrown into your face with a sudden "sproingg!" to slow down your flush.

Exactly no need for any artificial contrivances such as harnesses or launchers.
Link to a number flushing dogs flushing birds. I believe all of the dogs shown are steady to wing and shot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZUP-kVCSkI


"welsh" would you be going to Ontario spaniel trial this weekend?

[welsh]

"welsh" would you be going to Ontario spaniel trial this weekend?

No. Wedding anniversary takes precedence. I tried to convince her that going to a trial is a fine way to celebrate, but then she hit me.

[gonehuntin']

What Don said. If he catches a bird it harms nothing. He is a flusher, not a pointer.

[SpringerDude]

Planting pigeons is never 100% right. You might have a few stay down and then the next several volunteer. I have seen folks plant pigeons in cover so thin I thought they would all volunteer. But they planted 7 birds down a course and they all stayed until flushed by the spaniels on the course. The planted birds were hearing the handlers and dogs and gallery and guns all coming down the field but still stayed on the ground until the dog caused them to fly.

If you use too thick of cover, the dog will start to look for the bird and possibly sneak into the cover trying to catch it.

Are you trying to do something specific with your training, ie steady to flush, steady to shot, etc? Or are you just wanting to get your dog some exposure to a simulated hunt with a hunt, flush, shot and retrieve and not really "training" any additional obedience scenario?

In training spaniels, there is a rule of thumb to use more clip wings than flyers to keep the dog driving in on the flush. Flyers are necessary to finish steady work and they are necessary to give us our practice at shooting birds. Sometimes it can be more about shooting pigeons than it is about training dogs

You are just experiencing a part of the learning curve and journey of training dogs.

[gundogguy]

Planting pigeons is never 100% right. You might have a few stay down and then the next several volunteer. I have seen folks plant pigeons in cover so thin I thought they would all volunteer. But they planted 7 birds down a course and they all stayed until flushed by the spaniels on the course. The planted birds were hearing the handlers and dogs and gallery and guns all coming down the field but still stayed on the ground until the dog caused them to fly.

If you use too thick of cover, the dog will start to look for the bird and possibly sneak into the cover trying to catch it.

Are you trying to do something specific with your training, ie steady to flush, steady to shot, etc? Or are you just wanting to get your dog some exposure to a simulated hunt with a hunt, flush, shot and retrieve and not really "training" any additional obedience scenario?

In training spaniels, there is a rule of thumb to use more clip wings than flyers to keep the dog driving in on the flush. Flyers are necessary to finish steady work and they are necessary to give us our practice at shooting birds. Sometimes it can be more about shooting pigeons than it is about training dogs

You are just experiencing a part of the learning curve and journey of training dogs.

That is very good SpringerDude. One additional thought I would add, would be this for the chasing pup, they will experience the challenge of seeing the bird come out of the cover and develop a sight line of chase to the fall. Catching birds does not help the chasing unsteady pup in this process. For the steady to wing and shot dog, it helps develop and strengthen "marking" ability of the fall of the bird. Personally I donot feel a dog truly develops his marking ability until he is steady the w & s . The fall of the bird also reinforces steadiness and also the ability to call off a dog from making a retrieve that may place the dog in harms way or a dangerous situation.

should be planting pigeons today and tomorrow great weather report here in southern Michiganistan

[Huntumup]

Spingerdude, yes i am trying to get her in more hunt situations flush shoot retrive. I have a season under my belt with her but here in California the hunting wasnt that great. Like my breeder said when i picked her out, you grt out what you put in. What im getting from people is forget the harness and launcher, if she catches them no big deal. Planting pigeons is a art and the olny way to get good is to plant then over and over. Daisy and i thank you.

[gundogguy]

Spingerdude, yes i am trying to get her in more hunt situations flush shoot retrive. I have a season under my belt with her but here in California the hunting wasnt that great. Like my breeder said when i picked her out, you grt out what you put in. What im getting from people is forget the harness and launcher, if she catches them no big deal. Planting pigeons is a art and the olny way to get good is to plant then over and over. Daisy and i thank you.

Link is to a short video planting two different birds consistency is one of the attributes needed to set a bird out for a flushing dog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBrThQ5xOZQ

[gonehuntin']

Remember also to plant the birds so the dog scents the birds and not you. You don't want the dog simply trailing you to the launcher.

[Waterdogs1]

When I start my young dogs i use clip wings out in the field. I have used launchers to teach sit to flush but honestly who cares. If your dog will sit in a whistle sit to flush is easy. It is easier for a dog to mark a bird if he is sits to flush but again if the dog handles that not a problem either.