E-Collar Introduction

[akamaverick007]

Looking for tips on how to introduce the e-collar. Black lab pup is 6 months old and responds well to basic commands - sit, stay, here, etc.- but sometimes puts up a little resistance to listening. i.e. I give the "sit" command and she takes 2 or 3 seconds to "think about it" before she performs the command. I only give the command once and have starting using "pressure on/pressure off" on her ear to spur compliance with some success, but I'm also looking to introduce an e-collar.

I'm not new to dog training, but am new to hunting dog training. Should I start with the command, then buzz, buzz, buzz until she starts sitting? I've read Tom Dokken and this seems to be what he recommends, but interested in others experiences. I haven't force fetched her yet, btw.

thanks!

[Sharon]

basic principles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNotUXUi4IU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NLQRgI6-yY

Some folk have the dog wear the collar without you using it , for a week or so.

[Bluesky2012]

Looking for tips on how to introduce the e-collar. Black lab pup is 6 months old and responds well to basic commands - sit, stay, here, etc.- but sometimes puts up a little resistance to listening. i.e. I give the "sit" command and she takes 2 or 3 seconds to "think about it" before she performs the command. I only give the command once and have starting using "pressure on/pressure off" on her ear to spur compliance with some success, but I'm also looking to introduce an e-collar.

I'm not new to dog training, but am new to hunting dog training. Should I start with the command, then buzz, buzz, buzz until she starts sitting? I've read Tom Dokken and this seems to be what he recommends, but interested in others experiences. I haven't force fetched her yet, btw.

thanks!

First off don't follow dokken. Get a real program with video to help you. Second, with a lab, you have to do formal obedience which it doesn't sound like you have yet. Typically it goes

Intro work-formal obedience-force fetch- walking/stick fetch- collar fetch- force to pile- collar conditioning. Your dog does not understand force yet so save the effort and follow a real program. It'll help a lot. Go take a choke chain, heeling stick, and do retriever obedience for a month or so before moving on to force fetch (or if for what ever reason you are against that) then transition to collar conditioning.

Also why the crap are you using pressure on the ear for basic obedience? Leave that for force fetch! Formal obedience pressure should more or less force or direct the dog to comply ie pulling a cake chain on a check cord for here, lifting cord to pull head up with a heeling stick on the but for sit, etc. the dog just thinks "why is this dude pinching my ear?". There's a big difference between petsmart obedience classes and retriever/gundog formal obedience. Go to the retriever training forum or duckhuntingchat.com for more in depth retriever insight. A few on here know it but this is more of a pointer/versatile sight.

Again, get a better program first and foremost. Drop the collar. Learn what you're doing first or else you can ruin your dog fast.

[aulrich]

Yes I had the collar on mine for a couple of weeks.

Fit is huge, high up the neck and a snug 2 fingers under the collar it's hard to get it too tight, loose is bad.
less is more, it's can be hard (it was for me) for a rookie to read the tells that your dog feels it.

I would also take the time and with the collar in your hand nick yourself just to give a frame of reference.

Personally I have a better understanding of continuous vs nick.

With continuous
with a known command
phase 1 apply stim, give command, turn off on compliance - complete once the dog complies on stim before the command is given)
phase 2 give command and a half heart beat later stim, turn off on compliance - typically only need a few reps
phase 3 give command praise on compliance, correct if required.

Nick as far a I tell using sit as and example

While the dog is sitting give the command with a nick repeat enough repetitions the dog gets it.


Both use minimum perceived settings

x 2 on an OB program I used the Hickox e-collar method with my LM since it is geared for a pointing dog, but something like Smart Work would guide you through with fewer issues

[gonehuntin']

Buy Evan Grahams Program or Fowl Dawgs and follow it. YOU should learn the program first, THEN teach the dog.

[Swampbilly]

Here's the thing-
You can collar condition your dog prior to FF'.
I personally struggled with that idea for a long time before doing it.

If you CC' your dog PRIOR to FF', 'ya don't have to STOP what you're doing in the middle of the pressure conditioning process in order to Collar Fetch. It makes a better flow of lessons without a major interruption, it was better for me...bettet for the dawg.

[Fran Seagren]

There has been some good advice so far, but I'll still jump in with my .02 worth. It's hard to tell a person how to collar condition a dog from a forum like this. I know there are lots of good training videos and books available. My go-to for retrievers is the Mike Lardy stuff. You can mess up your dog if you don't introduce the e-collar correctly.

[Bluesky2012]

There has been some good advice so far, but I'll still jump in with my .02 worth. It's hard to tell a person how to collar condition a dog from a forum like this. I know there are lots of good training videos and books available. My go-to for retrievers is the Mike Lardy stuff. You can mess up your dog if you don't introduce the e-collar correctly.

CC a retriever is much different than a pointer. Lardy is the best, graham will also do you well. As said, again stop trying right now. Learn first before you mess up badly.

[sdsujacks]

I taught basic obedience through summer, early fall. Then fall was pheasant hunting nearly every day for me, so I didn't want to teach anything too new during that time. I'd just review obedience outside of hunting. I also bought my e-collar at the start of hunting season and put it on him every time we went hunting or did obedience work but I never turned it on until late January. So I conditioned him for about 4 months before using it. He will do backflips to this day still as soon as he sees his collar in my hand.

[Sharon]

There has been some good advice so far, but I'll still jump in with my .02 worth. It's hard to tell a person how to collar condition a dog from a forum like this. I know there are lots of good training videos and books available. My go-to for retrievers is the Mike Lardy stuff. You can mess up your dog if you don't introduce the e-collar correctly.

CC a retriever is much different than a pointer. Lardy is the best, graham will also do you well. As said, again stop trying right now. Learn first before you mess up badly.

I don't think it is any different; why do you feel that way?

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

There has been some good advice so far, but I'll still jump in with my .02 worth. It's hard to tell a person how to collar condition a dog from a forum like this. I know there are lots of good training videos and books available. My go-to for retrievers is the Mike Lardy stuff. You can mess up your dog if you don't introduce the e-collar correctly.

CC a retriever is much different than a pointer. Lardy is the best, graham will also do you well. As said, again stop trying right now. Learn first before you mess up badly.

I don't think it is any different; why do you feel that way?

I would like to know also as I have labs, V's, and GSP's and condition them the same way. The individual dog tells me more about it than the breed.

[gonehuntin']

There has been some good advice so far, but I'll still jump in with my .02 worth. It's hard to tell a person how to collar condition a dog from a forum like this. I know there are lots of good training videos and books available. My go-to for retrievers is the Mike Lardy stuff. You can mess up your dog if you don't introduce the e-collar correctly.

CC a retriever is much different than a pointer. Lardy is the best, graham will also do you well. As said, again stop trying right now. Learn first before you mess up badly.

They don't have to be different Sharon. I condition all breeds the exact same way up to the stage of hand signals. If I would say there COULD be a difference, it's in what you teach the differing breeds. For instance, you wouldn't usually teach a pointer a swim by or run 300 yard blinds with it.

It's not the method that differs, it's how far you pursue the training.

[Sharon]

Yes I understand that.
It was the statement that "Collar conditioning a retriever is much different that a pointer." that I didn't understand.