Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

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bgcole
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Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by bgcole » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:40 pm

Im going through the perfect start perfect finish series, watched it a couple of time (PS) now. Getting some birds this week, probably pigeons caught from wherever...

1. Am i supposed to prevent my dog from seeing the birds in the cage? I dont have a lot of space so, that could pose an issue.... id figure it out, but just wanted to know
2. Should i plant 2-4 birds in a field at a time and then work down until i flush them all (one at a time)? Or plant one, work him up to it, flush...crate him....rinse and repeat? Im refering to the intro to birds section of the DVD
2a. If i plant 2-4 birds at a time, what the best way to mark them without tipping off the dog?
3. Anybody know where i can get a frozen quail mail order?
4. Im a few weeks away from a launcher, but I will be getting 1-2 manual launchers....and probably more like one... do I put the dog away completely in between "sets?"

this is a great DVD series. I have learned a ton, and have noticed alot of mistake I made with my last dog...especially with gun intro.

-Ben

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Sharon
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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Sharon » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:57 pm

1/ You need space /a large field. You're going to have to find something , even if it means driving some. A launcher in a backyard or parking lot is not going to do the job. Launcher has to be hidden in bushes, tall grass etc - in a way that the bird can freely flush up and away.

2a/

Most folk just attach an orange or...............ribbon to the top of the bush. I've not know a dog to mark a launcher by seeing a ribbon, but never say never. :)

2/ Crating between every bird is not necessary. Consider wearing gloves to keep your scent off the bird and launcher. Dogs will learn to follow your tracks to the next launcher. How are you going to solve that?

Great to hear your enthusiasm and to see someone following a proven plan. Enjoy.:)
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bgcole
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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by bgcole » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:01 pm

Thanks Sharon -

I have a couple of different fields at my disposal which is very nice - just dont have a 2 acre yard where i would be able to never allow the dog to see the bird cage...without alot of hassle or just keeping them in the shed.

I hadnt thought of the human scent element outside of the gloves...off the top of my head my first thought is to where my rubber deer hunting boots with...scent on them... How do you tackle that challenge?

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by RoostersMom » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:21 pm

Just don't overdo it. Once you've had a very successful bird - STOP. Don't continue to "test" your dog. If you run into real trouble, you can always contact Jon Hann - however, they are at summer camp in North Dakota until September, so they are pretty inaccessible now. You'll do fine putting the birds out all at once, but remember, even if you've put out say 3 birds and the dog handles bird 2 really, really well - you can put the dog up and quit for the session. End on a positive note with a fun bumper or hat retrieve.

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by BellaSpinone » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:47 pm

Dog should not see launcher. My pigeon lofts, ducks, flight pen are in view of my dogs. If you can afford them electronic remote launchers are much better. Think about used.. I have 5 pigeon and one pheasant size only bought one new. I put out drive way markers. I color code them to match with electrical tape, do same with launcher antenna and remote buttons. You can get a pack of five or six colors.

I usually do a session of five launchers. If I am working with a young dog or older dog that has never been on birds, I will do as many as 20 birds. Best if you have a helper following and loading as they are launched.

I bought ps/PF 13 years ago. We sold our house in the burbs and moved to the country on 20 acres because of what we learned. Our training grounds was set up for ps/PF method. I have 80 plus homers and lots of quail. Along the way we earned 4 MH titles and started many dogs for friends. I still watch the videos before working a dog.

It is important to have a training partner. I am lucky, my wife is an excellent trainer and very good with puppy intro work. Good luck. My best advice don't work your dog on pen raised quail until it is broke.

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bgcole
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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by bgcole » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:10 am

Thanks Bella and Roosters.

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by DonF » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:49 am

My old Lefty, GSP, would spot a marker in a hot second, went right to them. Squirt does the same thing, he figure's I'm just giving him a hand. Figured out how to do it without getting rid of the marker. Put the marker about 40 paces to one side of the trap, do all the traps the same distance from the markers and have the markers up wind of the traps. Change where you put the marker's but always up wind. The marker's serve as a reference point for you. You have a dog that figure's out marker's, watch it's face first time it goes to a marker and nothing is there!
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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by RoostersMom » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:57 am

In addition to Don's placement on markers, I use toilet paper - it's biodegradable and it just disappears after a rain.

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Sharon » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:57 am

LOL Now I knew there would be a dog who could pick up on the marker. :)
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Sharon
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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Sharon » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:26 pm

RoostersMom wrote:In addition to Don's placement on markers, I use toilet paper - it's biodegradable and it just disappears after a rain.
I sometimes wonder what the public thinks if they were to watch us tying toilet paper to bushes. Dog trainers are strange people aren't we. :)( Good tip.) m
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Bluesky2012 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:14 pm

Sharon wrote:
RoostersMom wrote:In addition to Don's placement on markers, I use toilet paper - it's biodegradable and it just disappears after a rain.
I sometimes wonder what the public thinks if they were to watch us tying toilet paper to bushes. Dog trainers are strange people aren't we. :)( Good tip.) m
I use tp to track deer I shot (lat it on blood spots) for this same reason. Works well
"it shot a many shell over the top of an old bird dog"

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Fun dog » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:14 am

I marked a bush with flag tape and planted the bird several bushes over. My dog hasn't he'd much exposure to flag tape so I was surprised when she pointed the bush with the tape. Then I discovered the bird had changed positions and was now residing directly under the tape.

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by birddogger » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:18 am

I use tp to track deer I shot (lat it on blood spots) for this same reason. Works well
Yep.

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:49 pm

RoostersMom wrote:Just don't overdo it. Once you've had a very successful bird - STOP. Don't continue to "test" your dog. If you run into real trouble, you can always contact Jon Hann - however, they are at summer camp in North Dakota until September, so they are pretty inaccessible now. You'll do fine putting the birds out all at once, but remember, even if you've put out say 3 birds and the dog handles bird 2 really, really well - you can put the dog up and quit for the session. End on a positive note with a fun bumper or hat retrieve.

Learning to quit a winner is quite possibly the HARDEST lesson that the single dog owner has to learn. RoostersMom is exactly right. Put out the 2-4 birds. If the dog handles the first one perfectly, consider quitting right then...right there. If you release the dog and when going to the second bird, watch close for any signs of the dog wanting to take liberties. If the dog does it perfectly the second time. Collar the dog, stroke it up, tell the dog what a good dog they are, then snap a lead on the dog and get the He!! out of the field.

I know just how hard it can be to stop. You have gotten all your chores done, so you could go train. You have gotten birds, loaded up the dog the birds the traps and all the paraphernalia, driven maybe a half hour or more to your training spot, Set out the birds and... your dog has two perfect finds in fifteen minutes.

All that time, all that effort and ...DONE in 15 minutes?

Short answer...YUP. Quit a winner.

RayG

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Djanes » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:03 pm

You can get frozen quail from companies that provide frozen animals as food for pet reptiles. I found this company googling whole frozen quail www.laynelabs.com/other-feeders/frozen-quail. The shipping is more expensive then the ten frozen quail. Hope this helps.

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Sharon » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:32 pm

Why do folks want frozen birds? I've never used a frozen bird. Maybe I'm missing something.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:58 pm

Sharon wrote:Why do folks want frozen birds? I've never used a frozen bird. Maybe I'm missing something.

I use them for retrieving using the same bird more than once. Its like using bumpers but the dog likes it better.

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Sharon » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:07 pm

Thank you.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by ibbowhunting » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:40 pm

bgcole wrote:Im going through the perfect start perfect finish series, watched it a couple of time (PS) now. Getting some birds this week, probably pigeons caught from wherever...

1. Am i supposed to prevent my dog from seeing the birds in the cage? I dont have a lot of space so, that could pose an issue.... id figure it out, but just wanted to know
2. Should i plant 2-4 birds in a field at a time and then work down until i flush them all (one at a time)? Or plant one, work him up to it, flush...crate him....rinse and repeat? Im refering to the intro to birds section of the DVD
2a. If i plant 2-4 birds at a time, what the best way to mark them without tipping off the dog?
3. Anybody know where i can get a frozen quail mail order?
4. Im a few weeks away from a launcher, but I will be getting 1-2 manual launchers....and probably more like one... do I put the dog away completely in between "sets?"

this is a great DVD series. I have learned a ton, and have noticed alot of mistake I made with my last dog...especially with gun intro.

-Ben

you said I'm referring to bird intro

there is a step or two before planting a bird for the pup, if I know anything about ps/pf is the first step is just as important as the last step

maybe you already did those steps already just trying to clarify

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bgcole
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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by bgcole » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:36 pm

Yea what i meant when i said that was the section on the DVD as its named. I havent started the bird planting yet. picking up the pigeons next weekend to go from start to finish...

I was just sort of writing down questions as they came up to condense them into one post as I went through the DVD.

thanks - learned alot of tips from this thread

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by Boolywooger » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:31 pm

As a follow-up to the frozen quail info... Do you thaw the bird before using it for retrieving and then refreeze? If so how long does a quail or pigeon take to thaw?

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Re: Maybe some dumb PS/PF questions

Post by oldbeek » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:46 pm

bgcole wrote:Yea what i meant when i said that was the section on the DVD as its named. I havent started the bird planting yet. picking up the pigeons next weekend to go from start to finish...

I was just sort of writing down questions as they came up to condense them into one post as I went through the DVD.

thanks - learned alot of tips from this thread
Do not use fancy pigeons. The don't fly. They just pop out of the trap and land 10 to 15 ft away. What a mess with a pup. I have also found some white rock doves don't fly very well either at first launch. Gray bar homers from now on.

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