Found wild quail ... now what?
Found wild quail ... now what?
I have a 2 year old GSP who my husband and I started working with earlier on, dabbled with NAVHDA, and started with PS/PF but got stuck when we had a hard time finding pigeons to use. (We got through the step where the dog finds/points a bird in a launcher, you have the dog whoa, release the bird, and the dog stays put.) Life was busy for this past year, but things have settled down now so we're going to try to finish up training to have a usable dog for hunting.
So, where we are now: the dog has successfully pointed birds (a couple of chukar with NAVHDA training, and some pigeons), but those were almost a year ago or longer. He is good with his recall and is collar trained for recall, heel, and whoa (a bit rusty on whoa, but pretty decent and we could freshen him up on it easily). Recently I discovered some quail that actually live within walking distance of our house (why didn't I find those two years ago?!?), but the two times I've taken the dog to that area, he's just charged around and busted the birds and they've flown away. We have let him run free off-leash a lot to burn off energy, and I think he's so used to running around crazy he's either forgotten about pointing, or he doesn't want to bother. He does often look like he's searching/hunting for birds, but it's obvious that he's just doing it for the thrill of chasing them, and (not surprisingly) he doesn't understand the big picture of what his job is.
So what's the best way to get him back into a hunting mindset? We have the wild quail nearby, but they're not in an area where we can actually shoot them. We don't have easy access (that we know of) to pigeons, but we do have a launcher and if we can find a way to get pigeons, we'll try harder to get some if that would be helpful in this process.
So, where we are now: the dog has successfully pointed birds (a couple of chukar with NAVHDA training, and some pigeons), but those were almost a year ago or longer. He is good with his recall and is collar trained for recall, heel, and whoa (a bit rusty on whoa, but pretty decent and we could freshen him up on it easily). Recently I discovered some quail that actually live within walking distance of our house (why didn't I find those two years ago?!?), but the two times I've taken the dog to that area, he's just charged around and busted the birds and they've flown away. We have let him run free off-leash a lot to burn off energy, and I think he's so used to running around crazy he's either forgotten about pointing, or he doesn't want to bother. He does often look like he's searching/hunting for birds, but it's obvious that he's just doing it for the thrill of chasing them, and (not surprisingly) he doesn't understand the big picture of what his job is.
So what's the best way to get him back into a hunting mindset? We have the wild quail nearby, but they're not in an area where we can actually shoot them. We don't have easy access (that we know of) to pigeons, but we do have a launcher and if we can find a way to get pigeons, we'll try harder to get some if that would be helpful in this process.
- Bluesky2012
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 394
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:06 am
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Found wild quail ... now what?
Play the wind so he actually has a chance to smell the quail. He'll figure it out on his own. Let him work it out, not you.
"it shot a many shell over the top of an old bird dog"
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
You guy's live in base housing? Probably wouldn't let you keep birds there. If you have a place off base you should think about building a pigeon loft. You can keep doing what you are but it will take a bit. Best way IMO is to get the dog back on pigeons. Check cord her in if you have to. Using pigeons you always know where the bird is and set the dog up to do it your way. Wild quail are not going to co-operate with you.
A 4x4x8 loft should handle 120 birds well and that's all you need for one dog. Matter of fact it wouldn't be long and you'll have to kill some. it's my opinion that the best bird for training is the pigeon and if your not going a long way to train, 30-40 miles, ferals will do all homer's will do. Once you have your dog doing what you want on pigeons, get a few bob white's or even chukars and turn her over to game birds. I'd do quail where you live. Just start over with the game bird, goes pretty fast because the dog then has the tools. From there out on wild birds and the transition is done.
A 4x4x8 loft should handle 120 birds well and that's all you need for one dog. Matter of fact it wouldn't be long and you'll have to kill some. it's my opinion that the best bird for training is the pigeon and if your not going a long way to train, 30-40 miles, ferals will do all homer's will do. Once you have your dog doing what you want on pigeons, get a few bob white's or even chukars and turn her over to game birds. I'd do quail where you live. Just start over with the game bird, goes pretty fast because the dog then has the tools. From there out on wild birds and the transition is done.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
- ibbowhunting
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 387
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:29 pm
- Location: Northern Minnesota
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
I think don meant 12 pigeons
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
Thanks, DonF, you have a good memory - yes, we live in base housing. I was looking at pigeon traps this afternoon thinking we might be able to hide one in our yard and try to snag some that way - since we'd just be releasing them after catching them anyway, and I'm already breaking the leash law on base.
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
You have what everyone is looking for, wild birds. Let your dog find them as often as you can you wont be sorry in the end. I would trade all my pigeons, and pen quail, launchers and most of my other training stuff that tries to simulate what you have wild birds.
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
FWIW, it's illegal in CA to run dogs on wild birds out of season. Until the season opens (we have 3 different quail openers in CA so read the regs) you're stuck with pen-raised birds and pigeons. Hunt (or run your dog) as much as you can after the season opens in your area.
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
OOPS! Yes he did!ibbowhunting wrote:I think don meant 12 pigeons
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
- Brazosvalleyvizslas
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1340
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:20 am
- Location: Soon2be, Texas
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
mtlhdr wrote:FWIW, it's illegal in CA to run dogs on wild birds out of season. Until the season opens (we have 3 different quail openers in CA so read the regs) you're stuck with pen-raised birds and pigeons. Hunt (or run your dog) as much as you can after the season opens in your area.
Its only "illegal" to hunt and shoot wild birds out of season. That doesn't mean you cant run and train the dogs out of season. I did it for many years in CA without issue.
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
CA FGCBrazosvalleyvizslas wrote:mtlhdr wrote:FWIW, it's illegal in CA to run dogs on wild birds out of season. Until the season opens (we have 3 different quail openers in CA so read the regs) you're stuck with pen-raised birds and pigeons. Hunt (or run your dog) as much as you can after the season opens in your area.
Its only "illegal" to hunt and shoot wild birds out of season. That doesn't mean you cant run and train the dogs out of season. I did it for many years in CA without issue.
3508. It is unlawful to break, train, hold field trials with, or
practice dogs on any wild game bird or domesticated game bird during
the closed season on that bird except as authorized by the
commission.
- Brazosvalleyvizslas
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1340
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:20 am
- Location: Soon2be, Texas
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
We do it every year with Game Wardens watching.... As long as they don't see us shoot them, they don't care. CA laws are so F'd up.mtlhdr wrote:CA FGCBrazosvalleyvizslas wrote:mtlhdr wrote:FWIW, it's illegal in CA to run dogs on wild birds out of season. Until the season opens (we have 3 different quail openers in CA so read the regs) you're stuck with pen-raised birds and pigeons. Hunt (or run your dog) as much as you can after the season opens in your area.
Its only "illegal" to hunt and shoot wild birds out of season. That doesn't mean you cant run and train the dogs out of season. I did it for many years in CA without issue.
3508. It is unlawful to break, train, hold field trials with, or
practice dogs on any wild game bird or domesticated game bird during
the closed season on that bird except as authorized by the
commission.
-
- Rank: Junior Hunter
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:31 pm
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
Here in California We Can train on wild birds as longest we don't do it during nesting season. I believe is during the month of may thru August when birds are nesting here in Ca. I'll look this up when I get home.
- Bluesky2012
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 394
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:06 am
- Location: Jacksonville, NC
Found wild quail ... now what?
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:We do it every year with Game Wardens watching.... As long as they don't see us shoot them, they don't care. CA laws are so F'd up.mtlhdr wrote:CA FGCBrazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Its only "illegal" to hunt and shoot wild birds out of season. That doesn't mean you cant run and train the dogs out of season. I did it for many years in CA without issue.
3508. It is unlawful to break, train, hold field trials with, or
practice dogs on any wild game bird or domesticated game bird during
the closed season on that bird except as authorized by the
commission.
I just don't see any reason in the world to put up with the crap of that state. Texas has wild birds and freedom.
"it shot a many shell over the top of an old bird dog"
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
Don't use pigeons, if you have wild birds you would be crazy to use pigeons. I would trade one solid wild bird contact over 100 pigeon contacts!
-
- Rank: Master Hunter
- Posts: 281
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 7:21 am
- Location: Utah
-
- GDF Junkie
- Posts: 3307
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:47 am
- Location: Central DE
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
As far as pigeons are concerned, they would be my choice for getting a dog steady to wing and shot. You can set up the situation and control the situation with planted birds in traps or launchers in ways that you simply cannot with wild birds.
Keeping a few feral pigeons, or quail,for a week or so, should not be a huge deal. I keep birds in a mid size dog crate that I modified. It will hold a half dozen pigeons or a dozen quail and you can put the crate in a shed or garage.
Once the dog is reasonably reliable in terms of steadiness, THEN I would go and work those wild birds, about once every three days. I might actually get some wild bird seed and spread it next to some escape cover. A pound or two spread out every four or five days. This way you give the birds a reason to keep coming back.
Good luck and have fun.
RayG
Keeping a few feral pigeons, or quail,for a week or so, should not be a huge deal. I keep birds in a mid size dog crate that I modified. It will hold a half dozen pigeons or a dozen quail and you can put the crate in a shed or garage.
Once the dog is reasonably reliable in terms of steadiness, THEN I would go and work those wild birds, about once every three days. I might actually get some wild bird seed and spread it next to some escape cover. A pound or two spread out every four or five days. This way you give the birds a reason to keep coming back.
Good luck and have fun.
RayG
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
Thank you all for your responses! I've taken the dog out to that area a few times now, and although we haven't actually found any birds, I think the scent is there enough that he's remembering to hunt for birds rather than just run around crazy trying to scare them up. Working him into the wind definitely has made a big difference. I tried to keep him on a leash to maintain control, but the bushes made that difficult/impossible, so I let him run loose but he seems to be doing a much better job than usual staying in close.
What time of day is the best? I've been going out in the morning, but recently the kids have started sleeping in (until 6:00-6:30, haha), so I've gotten a "late" start and haven't been out until 7:00 or so. Should I try to make it out a bit earlier?
Also, there are times when he'll stop and sort of look like he's pointing, but not nearly as intense as an actual point - more just like he's pausing to focus. I'm guessing that means he's picking up on some kind of interesting scent, possibly a place where a bird had been but isn't anymore? Is that a normal thing for a dog to do?
What time of day is the best? I've been going out in the morning, but recently the kids have started sleeping in (until 6:00-6:30, haha), so I've gotten a "late" start and haven't been out until 7:00 or so. Should I try to make it out a bit earlier?
Also, there are times when he'll stop and sort of look like he's pointing, but not nearly as intense as an actual point - more just like he's pausing to focus. I'm guessing that means he's picking up on some kind of interesting scent, possibly a place where a bird had been but isn't anymore? Is that a normal thing for a dog to do?
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
7 am is fine. Game birds sleep all night and are active during the day. If you want to sleep in, get out later than 7 am and your still good to go.
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
Re: Found wild quail ... now what?
The way to stop the dog from chasing is to get the dog back in the field and plant some pigeons. I say pigeons because they are cheap.
Plant the bird, have the dog point and whoa over them. When you go to kick the birds up, maybe the dog will jump in first; if so, all the better. Let the dog chase (NOT catch) the flying birds. If the dog is good and whoas over birds you plant then shoot some. Let the dog mouth the bird and bring it back.
Mine quickly (within 6 birds) learned if he doesn't whoa then there won't be a bird to mouth. And no matter what, he is never going to be fast enough to catch one flying.
It may take your dog more birds but pigeons are much cheaper than chukar or pheasants or quail.
Plant the bird, have the dog point and whoa over them. When you go to kick the birds up, maybe the dog will jump in first; if so, all the better. Let the dog chase (NOT catch) the flying birds. If the dog is good and whoas over birds you plant then shoot some. Let the dog mouth the bird and bring it back.
Mine quickly (within 6 birds) learned if he doesn't whoa then there won't be a bird to mouth. And no matter what, he is never going to be fast enough to catch one flying.
It may take your dog more birds but pigeons are much cheaper than chukar or pheasants or quail.