Force Fetch mistakes

Big bloc · Post by **Big bloc** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:41 am

Thinking of FF my dog. She will find birds but he ha's on the way back with a victory lap behind me. What is the best program that you guys use? What are some of the mistake that you have come across? If I mess up will she shut down all retrieving? She is a 2 1/2 year old EP. Thanks

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:52 am

I know little about F.F. except that it does work, I won't even try to tell you how to F.F. a dog. To me it sounds like your dog does "retrieve" or at least does pick up birds O.K. but is lacking a good delivery ? Perhaps only the delivery part of the retrieve needs work done on it ? If you intend to do the training yourself then training only for the delivery would avoid any mistakes you might make if training the dog the full F.F. ???

Bill T.

Gooseman07 · Post by **Gooseman07** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:27 am

I just wrote a long reply to the idea that you have already FF your dog and you were having trouble then I re-read your post.

It all depends on what your end goal is with your dog. If you want a quality hunting partner that will not screw you when they don't want to do the work, I would FF. If you want a good NAVHDA dog, I think it is essential you FF your dog some people are successful without FF. If you don't mind the victory lap and still get the birds, you're in good shape where you are.

If you do plan to FF your dog, I would get a good program that you know has been tested and is successful then understand fully the program before starting. I referenced my notes even through the process to make sure I'm not missing something as there are a lot of things going on in my life aside from training. Good luck!

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:44 am

Your basic problem is the defiance of the HERE command, not the retrieve, as I read it. Usually teaching the dog to come straight in and heel or stand and deliver will fix the problem.

If I wanted to ff the dog, I'd go with Evan Grahams Smart Fetch.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:47 am

I have been training dogs since 1960, some to the highest level, and I have a pro do the FF. I just don't enjoy it.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:03 am

Unless you plan on competing with your dog, what matter does a victory lap make before giving it to you? At some point she'll quit the victory lap and get you the bird just to get on to the next bird. Something to keep in mind, is in AF they don't retrieve. In AKC it's little more than a pass or fail. I have seen some of the worst retrieves ever on some dog's in call backs that have actually won.In NSTRA a retrieve is required and then you really need a clean retrieve to score well. But if it's just a hunting dog, I wouldn't worry about it, with enough shot birds it will come right back to get on to the next bird.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:35 am

FF won't fix a dog that won't comply with the "here" command. If your dog is already retrieving (picking the bird up and holding it until you praise and take it away) then you just need to work on the "here" or "come." Sounds like you just have to brush up on that one. A solid recall will prevent the victory lap - the dog that won't bring the bird to you straight away. That may be all you need to do.

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:24 am

With mine it was keep away, and if I had him on a cc he would not go out and pick it up. But at that point his OB was not good, I ran him through the hickox e-collar program once here was approaching solid the retrieve got better. FF without formal OB is a real pain. Here, Heel and Sit/whoa have those solid and the only other “tough spot” is the ear pinch stage. The rest is a collection of baby steps definitely not the fun’est training. X2 on smart fetch

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:55 am

Your problems are disobedience, not retrieve related. Force fetch only formalizes a retrieve and makes the dog "have to retrieve". If you try to force fetch with your dog not having solid obedience fundamentals, you're likely to struggle and have issues down the road. Do more yard work and train your dog to obey, then look at force fetch.

I've watched smart fetch, I'd recommend Danny Farmer/ Joyce Aycock's new force fetch DVD over smart fetch. If you know who they are, you know they are who you want teaching you. Smart fetch is good, but I prefer Danny farmer.

brewer · Post by **brewer** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:35 pm

I made the mistake of starting too early; before obedience commands were absolutely rock solid. Went to a Huntsmith seminar and I stopped FF immediately after. The seminar made me realize I wasn't where I thought I was. Went back to square 1 with come, sit, and heel. Did it until perfect. Came back to FF and it was relatively easy.

Dog dictates schedule of FF. You do not.

I agree with the above posts and you probably don't want to hear it is an obedience issue, but it most likely is. I used SmartFetch - worked pretty well.

Georgia Boy · Post by **Georgia Boy** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:54 am

The biggest mistake I see people make is moving to fast before the dog is really ready.

Waterdogs1 · Post by **Waterdogs1** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:38 pm

If you want a dog that retrieves and is relaible and not mouth birds I would force fetch or have someone do the FF for you.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:01 pm

I do not see a reason not to force fetch a dog unless proper instruction is un-attainable. The intangibles of force fetch make it worth it alone.

Swampbilly · Post by **Swampbilly** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:15 pm

DonF wrote:Unless you plan on competing with your dog, what matter does a victory lap make before giving it to you? At some point she'll quit the victory lap and get you the bird just to get on to the next bird. Something to keep in mind, is in AF they don't retrieve. In AKC it's little more than a pass or fail. I have seen some of the worst retrieves ever on some dog's in call backs that have actually won.In NSTRA a retrieve is required and then you really need a clean retrieve to score well. But if it's just a hunting dog, I wouldn't worry about it, with enough shot birds it will come right back to get on to the next bird.

Don-
"Dag-gone 'ya"

Does one really have to be competing to re- enforce HERE and train up an obedient retriever (?) Birds simply don't belong to the dog to do whatever it wants with it on a return.
Why not train up a responsible hand delivery (?)

Hunt Test, Meat Dog, Gundog or Field Trials, train the critter to deliver the goods.

Just curious

Swampbilly · Post by **Swampbilly** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:35 pm

Big bloc wrote:Thinking of FF my dog. She will find birds but he ha's on the way back with a victory lap behind me. What is the best program that you guys use? What are some of the mistake that you have come across? If I mess up will she shut down all retrieving? She is a 2 1/2 year old EP. Thanks

Mistakes I've made include but not limited to ; giving a command when not in a position to re- enforce that command...err..giving a command the dog doesn't understand.

You don't have to FF' your dog in order to get a hand delivery. But don't have a whole lot of retrieving expectations in terms of Obedience unless you remain consistent with re-enforcement of known commands.
Keep Obedience and retrieving separate venues until you get your yard work done and then bring ' em both together.

If you properly CC' your dog you have some additional tools. If you go that far..might as well FF' too and finish the job.
However at 2 1/2 yrs you might not have the easiest student in the world.

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